Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[SilentKiller]

Thanks for information ... Wiki says it is still 50 per cent foreign componenets...

Foreign component but are manufactured in india.
And Wiki is editable, u want can make it 80% also
:thumb:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun MK-1 Transportation >>

By Train

By Road

It took me some time to search out train photo, though this photos ends the debate about Arjun`s railway transportation.. :cool2:

 

[sayareakd]

Arjun MK-1 Transportation >>

It took me some time to search out train photo, though this photos ends the debate about Arjun`s railway transportation.. :cool2:

good find Kunal sir...............................:thumb:

 

[Dejawolf]

The thermal imager and Night Vision sights for both the Commander and the Gunner originally came from Thales. Though its ability to withstand the Thar desert heat is deeply suspect. This is why the AC has been fixed, both on T90 & the Arjun. It was finally replaced by our BEL.
Very impressive performance and endurance in 50^0 C heat. Far better than the Thales in endurance.

By cost, the Arjun is 42% indegenious.
In comparison,

Merkava IV-(Israel)
Powerpack - General Dynamics
(licensed MTU)Transmission
Ashot Ashkelon (licensed Renk)

K1A1-(South Korea)
Gun - Rheinmetall L44 120mm
Powerpack - MTUT
ranmission - RenkK-2

Black Panther(South Korea)
Gun - Rheinmetall L55 120mm(German)
Powerpack - MTU (to be replaced with domestic engine)
Autoloader design adapted from Leclerc-Leclerc-(France)
Powerpack - Wartsila(Finland)
Transmission - Renk

Challenger 2-(UK)
(changes part to-Gun - L30A1 (now being changed to Rheinmetall L55)
FCS - Computing Devices Co(Canada)
Panoramic Sight - Sagem(France)
TI sight - Thales(France)
Powerpack - Perkins(MTU on 2E variant)
Transmission - David Brown(Renk on 2E variant)

Everyine wants the final platform to be cheap, and in the process, gets certain components from abroad, for a variety of reasons. The Arjun is similar to the above tanks but somehow the imported content makes this tank a foreign one. How come the Lecrec is French?

well, the challenger 2E was intended for export, and therefore incorporated a lot of foreign components. the original challenger 2 has a domestic panoramic(daysight only) and TI sight, as well as a domestic powerpack and transmission.
nobody bought the challenger 2E however.
sticking to mostly domestic components is a matter of pride.
btw you forgot the Abrams modified german RH 120mm gun labeled M256, british armour and belgian coax/loaders machine guns.

"Mobility" means speed / rate of travel between two points which also means the ability to surpass obstacles and other impediments occuring between those points.

Say, if one asks me if T-90 is more mobile than Arjun for travel from Gwalior to Taran Taran in Punjab, I would with certainity say that T-90 is more mobile.

It would take three times the efforts and times to move Arjun from Gwalior to Taran Taran.

Arjun is heavier, but it also has a larger engine. the power/weight ratio of the Arjun is actually higher than the T-90, which means the Arjun can accelerate faster, and obtain a higher top speed than the T-90. Arjun has a higher fuel consumption, but also larger fuel tanks, which means it has the same range as the T-90.
Arjun also has higher reverse speed than T-90, and a lower gun depression, giving it a much better ability to take up defensive positions.

however, higher weight puts more stress on the running gear, which means it has higher demand of maintenance.
but the T-90 engine is nearing it's maximum upgrade limit. already the V92 engine life is reduced over the V84 due to it being overpowered for it's size, demanding a higher frequency of engine replacement.

Of course , solutions like these are used in all the western countries that operate heavier MBTs. But people who are looking for a stick to beat Arjun will always remember to forget this.With the advent of top attack anti tank missiles and higher penetration APFSD rounds, future tanks are not going to become light weight overnight.

ERA protection won't help in case the same place is hit repeatedly. So having light weight easily transportable , lesser armor , relying on turret geometry tanks, that need external exposed air conditioning system to stop the crews from fainting (that means you are vulnerable whenever you turn the gun , because weak turret sides will get exposed.) won't help in the long run, neither does heaping ammo on the floor of the tank hoping that turret won't lift off in ammo cook-off resulting from any seep through explosion.

As there is no way for safe handling of ammo with auto loaders , It is better to have each piece of ammo stored as safe as possible , rather than leaving them exposed in the bargain of a bit higher rate of fire.

The Arjun actually has a higher rate of fire than the T-90. the T-90 autoloader takes about 7.5-10 seconds to load a round, whereas a well-trained human loader can load the gun in 4-6 seconds.
The claim that ammunition in the Arjun is better protected from ammunition cook-off is only partially true. The Arjun ammunition protection solution is the same as the israeli one. as long as the ammunition bunkers are not hit directly, the ammunition will not cook off, as the ammunition bunkers are protected from secondary spalling. however, a direct hit to either the hull ammunition bunker, or turret ammunition bunker will still result in the crew being cooked alive.

 

[rohit b3]

Hello Guys, im new to this Forum.

Im really interested to learn more about the Arjun, which seems to be comparable to the Top Class Tanks, but im pretty confident that the Corrupt Army Officials are trying to bury the Arjun and make headlines"T-90s Scam" later when its too late.


This is a YOUTUBE video which places Arjun at No.8-

/watch?v=VoB4GKR0Q0w


Apart from that, there is this Videos calling Arjun a failed tank-

/watch?v=C5aDMvZbTWY

/watch?v=CxG0heg-TU4


Do these defects mentioned, still exist in the Arjun?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is absolutely 0% faults in preform ace @rohit b3, let it be accuracy of the Gun or the mobility or its durability in harsh condition..

Reports from DRDO suggest it outperform Indian made T-90S and according to Army reports both tanks preformed equal except Arjun night firing is better than T-90S..

All the links and vids are uploaded in this thread which are not by third party but from user and manufacturer..

 

[rohit b3]

There is absolutely 0% faults in preform ace @rohit b3, let it be accuracy of the Gun or the mobility or its durability in harsh condition..

Reports from DRDO suggest it outperform Indian made T-90S and according to Army reports both tanks preformed equal except Arjun night firing is better than T-90S..

All the links and vids are uploaded in this thread which are not by third party but from user and manufacturer..

Thanks.

So can we assume that this T-90s import is cause of corruption within the Army??

It seems the Army is also not willing to test the Arjun mk2 and T-90s in the Plains of Punjab,etc

DRDO seems to be confident about the Arjun mk2 and is advertiseing it Aggresively. Will this pressure make the Army Buy ATLEAST 300-400 Arjun Mk2s?


Btw, a basic question

At what Rate/Year are Arjuns produced?? And what Rate/Year are other tanks around the World Produced.?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

No, It was an emergency purchase but by that time Arjun was not ready coz of bugs planted by some foreign agents within Military ( Know this from discussing to an Armored officer related to my inner circle ) latter Arjun was rectified and now in service..

Thanks.So can we assume that this T-90s import is cause of corruption within the Army??

============================

Army will buy 116 MK2 at start, But will push for Arjun MK3 / FMBT ..

DRDO seems to be confident about the Arjun mk2 and is advertiseing it Aggressively. Will this pressure make the Army Buy ATLEAST 300-400 Arjun Mk2s?

============================

Arjun production is slow compare to foreign players, coz it is ordered very late and in small number ..

Further India have only one tank manufacturing factory which is also used to upgrade existing tanks..

Btw, a basic question, At what Rate/Year are Arjuns produced?? And what Rate/Year are other tanks around the World Produced.?

 

[rohit b3]

No, It was an emergency purchase but by that time Arjun was not ready coz of bugs planted by some foreign agents within Military ( Know this from discussing to an Armored officer related to my inner circle ) latter Arjun was rectified and now in service..

What do u mean by Bugs planted by some foriegn agents within the Military?


And is it the Arjun Mk3 or the FMBT??

Arjun series Tanks give me an idea of Tanks with a weight over 60 Tons.

FMBT specifications sound like a Tank of 50 Tons, or Max 55 Tons .


The FMBT is expected to be inducted by 2020, isnt that an optimistic date for a tank which is still not even on the drawing boards? Wont all the 116 Arjun mk2 be inducted well before 2020 and then the Arjun manufacturing will lie idle till FMBT is ready?



Anyways, are the T-90 imports still on?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun MK3 specs will be same as FMBT specs regardless which one name it is, It will be same tank..

FMBT specs are made by Army for future MBT..

And is it the Arjun Mk3 or the FMBT??

==================

Yes, It will be ..

Arjun manufacturing will lie idle till FMBT is ready?

==================

MOD was planning to purchase some +300 T-90MS, No conformation any longer..

Anyways, are the T-90 imports still on?

 

[Daredevil]

Order Placed For Arjun Mk1A MBT's Vectronics Suite

The Arjun Mk1A MBT programme crossed a significant milestone today after India's Ministry of Defence (MoD) inked an initial US$80 million contract with Elbit Systems Electro-optics Elop Ltd (Elop) for the procurement of vectronics suites over the next two years for 116 Arjun Mk2s.

TRISHUL: Order Placed For Arjun Mk1A MBT's Vectronics Suite

 

[Damian]

Good news.

 

[rohit b3]

Colombia was intersted in Arjun in 2009. Anything after that?

 

[Daredevil]

Colombia was intersted in Arjun in 2009. Anything after that?

I think they are interested in Israeli Merkava

According to Colombian reports, the government and military initially examined the possibility of procuring the Indian-produced Arjun tank, but soon learned that the tank possessed inferior capabilities to the Merkava.

Israel Defense | Israel's Minister of Defense Departs for Work Visit to Colombia

 

[rohit b3]

I think they are interested in Israeli Merkava

But well, Merkava is somewhat better, but costs 6 mil$ each as opposed to Arjun's 3.5mil$ each.

Anyways, if Colombia doesn mind shelling out some money, DRDO can take in the Arjun Mk2 after these summer trials. Arjun mk2 will surely be better than Merkava 4?


Anyways,Arjun mk1 is a 3rd gen tank. So what is Arjun mk2? 3.5th gen? 4th gen?

 

[DivineHeretic]

But well, Merkava is somewhat better, but costs 6 mil$ each as opposed to Arjun's 3.5mil$ each.

Anyways, if Colombia doesn mind shelling out some money, DRDO can take in the Arjun Mk2 after these summer trials. Arjun mk2 will surely be better than Merkava 4?


Anyways,Arjun mk1 is a 3rd gen tank. So what is Arjun mk2? 3.5th gen? 4th gen?

You are mis-informed on the first part. The Arjun as of now costs upwards of $8 million per tank, making it the most expensive tank in the world.

There hasn't been any revolutionary development in tanks to justify a new generation. The Arjun mk1 has several gaps in its abilities, which are to be filled up by the mk2 program. Most notably among them is the ability to fire missiles from the barrel of the tank.

TheArjun mk2 will still remain a 3rd gen tank.

 

[rohit b3]

You are mis-informed on the first part. The Arjun as of now costs upwards of $8 million per tank, making it the most expensive tank in the world.

There hasn't been any revolutionary development in tanks to justify a new generation. The Arjun mk1 has several gaps in its abilities, which are to be filled up by the mk2 program. Most notably among them is the ability to fire missiles from the barrel of the tank.

TheArjun mk2 will still remain a 3rd gen tank.

Correct me if im wrong, but Arjun mk2 is 8mil$ a piece. Arjun mk1 was produced between 2004-2009 at 3.2mil$ a piece. Maybe it would cost a little more now in 2013.

Leclerc and K2Black Panther costs more than Arjun mk2

Japan's Type 10 boasts of being a 4th gen tank. Infact many people say that Leo2A7,Leclerc and K2 are 4th gens as well. Im not too sure though.


And Arjun mk1's expectations by the army were too high. Infact how many tanks in the world can actually fire missiles?

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

There is no 4th gen tank till date.4th gen attributes like 152mm gun,remote controlled turret,more powerfull engine(1800-2100hp) engine is possessed by no tank in the world.What we see are latest version of 3rd gen tanks like leopard,abhrams,merkava etc.even the k2 and japanese type 10 are 3rd gen and their construction is same as 3rd gen design philosophy adopted since late 70s.However russian t-95 project was said to 4th gen with technologies found on no other mbts but it was cancelled since russian mod felt that there was nothing new in it exect an extension of 80s soviet tank tank design and now they are adopting a new concept called armata ucp by 2015-16.

List of main battle tanks by generation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ersakthivel]

Arjun is costly because the Army is giving piecemeal orders of in small numbers like 124 to sabotage it's logical production and induction into Indian ArmyWhy?
Because if numbers are low a lot of parts need to imported.No one can set up a separate production line of parts to produce assemblies for just 124 tanks. Also no private player will come in .

A case in point is the closing down of ARJUn Rubber tracks facility set up by MRF and the lack of progress in designing the new light weight modern 1800 hp in collabaration with Ashok Leyland by CVRDE.If an order of 500 tanks as requested by CVRDE is given many of the now imported parts can be produced here leading to lower cost for Arjun.

Same with modern Ammo for ARJUn. With just 124 tanks in production it is not economical to pursue R&D in new anti tank rounds for the ARJUN.


This modern engine will be a light weight one and go a long way in reducing the weight of Arjun.Since once the engine's weight is reduced we can reduce the weight of the mountings and various other structures that support the engine. So it will have a multiplier effect on weight savings. Same with other bridge laying and support equipments.This will result in stoppage of the energetic participation of Indian private sector in the Tank industry and will lead to a weakening of the future defence prepardness of the nation.

The army knows everything. but still for some strange reasons only piecemeal orders are being given even after extreme testing of ARJUN in the desert heat of India.

Contrast this with the attitude of the army procurement guys who gave 1000 plus order for T-90 whose trials were carried out in Russia and not in India.because of this when it arrived in India it had it's electronics packing up due to desert heat , engine giving way lower power because of hot climate and crew men fainting inside unable to bear the heat in the cramped compartments(the problem cannot be resolved because there is no internal space to fit the Ac. Externally fitted Ac will be the first to malfunction in combat area after a few hits) .

Also all western MBTs tanks in production are at the same tech level as Arjun. Infact ARJUN's gun is among the most potent and accurate in MBts of the world. It's gun caliber and muzzle velocity matches any modern western MBT. The guns on the Arjun MK-1s can be upgraded to fire missiles in future if the army wants it(a feasibility study will make things clear on this count).

All incremental developments in armor can be implemneted in Arjun mk-1 in tranches as it is common with any deence product.If in future a better protection armor is developed it can replace the present armor in MK-1. Same with guns if Indian Army wants to standardize on smoothbores in future the gun can be replaced in the next upgrade.So all cry of no world class ammo will cease.
Samewith engines , if in future a light weight 1800 hp diesel engine for FMBT is developed it can be fitted on to ARJUn mk-1 as well leading to drastic weight reduction.

So it is a strange circumstances that keep the arjun's cost high.nothing natural about it.

 

[ersakthivel]

what I meant to say and you refuse to understand is ARJUN was a result of an ARMY GSQR , not a product of daydream by some CVRDE employees.First Army wanted a 100 mm gun 40 ton tank. Then it changed it to 110 mm gun. Then it changed it to 120 mm gun. The protection demanded by the army was also much higher than that of T-series.


Because there was an indication of ABRAMS being available to PAKISTAN.So the higher weigth , higher protection, safer ammo carrying , fatigue free four men crew tank suitable to fght in the desrts of rajastan in the summer heat with higher net centric capability and heat hardened electronics in the name of ARJUN was designed.What is surprising is that many sections of the tank procurement people are feigning ignorance of this fact !!, and saying ARJUn is overweight, when in reality ARJUn has much lower ground pressure per sq inch thanks to it's wider track which make it more suitable to be deployed evn in marshy areas compared to T-90.

See the beloved Russian tin can T-72 whose lineage the t-90 proudly carries were bolwn off by ammo cook off by simple LTTE mines in Sri Lanka . So I am afraid that the IA has no tank fit enough to fight in these regions if they have no ARJUNs.

The need of Indian army is vastly different form the "NEEDS"of the tank procurement sections within Indain govt which comprise sections of procurement divisions of Army and MOD.Every one who regularly read newspaper knows what these burning "NEEDS" are.

It is these burning "NEEDS" which resulted in the 1000 plus order for "crew heat stroke inducing "t-90 without a single trial in Indain deserts in summer and just a piecemeal 124 order for ARJUN which sweated through the Summer in rajasthan to prove itself even against some sabotage efforts.

For your informtion the T-90 engine produces way lower power in Indian summer , which leads to even lower power to weight ratio. Then why 1000s of it is ordered and Arjun being stalled?