Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

Was T-90 made according to Indian Army GSQR? Hell No.When 1000s of it were ordered it's electronics were not heat hardened and it had no AC or enough internal space to cope up with Summer heat. With not a single grueling trial in Rajstan deserts how came it became the blue eyed boy of IA? Fact is when large scle order for t-90 was given it was at the same stage as ARJUN mk-1 then with the same list of problems.

Because there was an indication of ABRAMS being available to PAKISTAN.So the higher weigth , higher protection, safer ammo carrying , fatigue free four men crew tank suitable to fght in the desrts of rajastan in the summer heat with higher net centric capability even in silent mode with higher APU capacity ,and heat hardened electronics in the name of ARJUN was designed.

What is surprising is that many sections of the tank procurement people are feigning ignorance of this fact !!, and saying ARJUn is overweight, when in reality ARJUn has much lower ground pressure per sq inch thanks to it's wider track which make it more suitable to be deployed evn in marshy areas compared to T-90.

 

[ersakthivel]

Who said Arjun is not swift and fast?

Who told you Abram's only battle field use was bursting house of insurgents?


Fast rolling on our own bridge tanks being busted like Diwali crackers with crew men inside in ammo cook-off even in a seep through explosion, in the battle field seems to be your wish not the wish of crew men and western armies whose tanks don't get stuck up on their own bridges .

Then how are these western heavies are operating and winning in many third world countries that don't have 70 ton class bridges?
By carrying the needed bridge layers and other support stuff wth them is my opinion.What's yours?

 

[ersakthivel]

This sooth saying phase is over long before, And the hurriedly placed T-90 orders are going to be the last for the foriegn tanks in 1000s ,which have no relation to our terrain and operating conditions.

The army's fancy dream of 50 ton FMBT which was meant to buy more and more forieng tanks was busted long before with some sombre realization that Further eveolved versions of Arjun will take the name of FMBT in 50 plus ton weight class with much higher powered light weight engines and redesigned turrets with matching safety features and net centric ability as the most modern tanks of the western world..

And this will result in a tank that can even be deployed with more safety to crew men even in places like Sri Lanka, Afganistan and iraq.

And be the guiding light of the forum , and educate us all by posting news when any of the western armies are going to design and induct a tank , which was ordered in 1000s by the IA with "BURNING NEEDS ",whose prime safety feature is crew squating on littered ammo always ready to cook-off,and whose only comfort to crew is making them faint with heat strokes in desert summers, and which has no way of operating it's electronics in silent modes with a very low powered APU and arived in home country with electronics that pack up in desert heat.

Of course it will never happen as western armies won't be allowed to have "BURNING NEEDS".

 

[Daredevil]

Do not worry Arjun is a good tank and its one of the Marks (models0 will replace T- 90 twenty years hence ( or may be thirty) but in between IA will keep giving orders for ones and twos to keep DRDO alive. All tanks of the world have gone throgh that developmental agonies. There would be enough Arjun development for the DREDOs to keep this Forum paid and busy.

Arjun is making the Tin Can T-90 'dalals' posterior burn like hell. We can understand the agony of the retired types.

 

[DivineHeretic]

Arjun is as per the GSQR issued, capability wise.
The IA wanted a tank with superior crew survivability against tank munition, a four man crew to reduce crew fatigue, seperate munition storage compartment and blow off panels to protect against ammunition cook off. In short the IA wanted a tank conforming to western specifications.This itself was in contrast to the Indian doctrine of tank warfare of the time. To add to this, the IA wanted the Arjun in soviet size and weight.

The IA did not put out a requirement of a 60 ton MBT, but the requirements insisted upon by them made it impossible to build a tank as light as a soviet tank, that too it had to be superior in armor to the soviet ones. It is beyond logic as to why the IA would order a Western style tank and still want its weight under 50 tons.

The only reason why the T-72,90 can keep their weights down is because they operate a three man crew. If it wanted a similar weight, it should have asked for a three man crew instead of four. The extra man needs some 12 tons of additional armor to protect him.

Then comes the seperate compartment, how can one do this without increasing the internal space of the tank?

The reality is the IA put forward the very specifications now available on the tank, but now quibbles about its weight. It made its decision of going for a western oriented tank, and therefore must now accpet the weight that comes with it.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I presume that is MK2 cost not MK1 ..

Also how one can deduct 3rd gen / 4th gen terminology over tanks ..

You are mis-informed on the first part. The Arjun as of now costs upwards of $8 million per tank, making it the most expensive tank in the world.

There hasn't been any revolutionary development in tanks to justify a new generation. The Arjun mk1 has several gaps in its abilities, which are to be filled up by the mk2 program. Most notably among them is the ability to fire missiles from the barrel of the tank.

TheArjun mk2 will still remain a 3rd gen tank.

 

[DivineHeretic]

I presume that is MK2 cost not MK1 ..

Also how one can deduct 3rd gen / 4th gen terminology over tanks ..

The mk1 production is dead since the initial orders for 124 mk1s were completed. So in the current context, the price to be quoted would be of the mk2 or mk1A. That is what I meant in the context of the earlier post.

The generation difference between any two platforms is based on major difference in hardware, software and exploitation accumulated as a result of evolutio or in certain cases revolution.

The current gen MBTs are differentiated from their predessors by the calibre and pressure resistance of the main gun, the penetration capability of the munitions used, the FCS, the engine Hp, and also by the composite armor against traditional armor in 2nd gen tanks.

As of now, the Arjun mk2, by a similar yardstick, would still be classified as a 3rd gen MBT, and be close in performance to the Leopards and the Merkavas, exceeding them in certain if not all parameters. The Russian T-95 on the other hand, was an attempt at a fourth gen MBT, as is the new Armata, both of which have all the above mentioned parameters improved by a vast level. Against this, the arjun mk2 still is a close evolution of the mk1.

However, the APS if fitted onto it, would give it some fourth gen capability.

 

[rohit b3]

Atleast lets hope that no furthur T90 orders are placed. After this Agusta westland Scam, T90MS orders should be shelved. Infact Saraswat was talking about producing 300-400 Arjun mk2s for the Army.

Btw, does anyone know how many T-90s have we ordered and how many we have today?

 

[Dejawolf]

seperate munition storage compartment and blow off panels to protect against ammunition cook off. In short the IA wanted a tank conforming to western specifications.This itself was in contrast to the Indian doctrine of tank warfare of the time. To add to this, the IA wanted the Arjun in soviet size and weight.

Arjun does not have separated ammunition storage and blowoff panels.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

There is nothing call MK1A as Mr Sengupta is mentioning on his own ..

It would be great to read more on tank generations on some links ?

Thanks ..

The mk1 production is dead since the initial orders for 124 mk1s were completed. So in the current context, the price to be quoted would be of the mk2 or mk1A. That is what I meant in the context of the earlier post.

The generation difference between any two platforms is based on major difference in hardware, software and exploitation accumulated as a result of evolutio or in certain cases revolution.

The current gen MBTs are differentiated from their predessors by the calibre and pressure resistance of the main gun, the penetration capability of the munitions used, the FCS, the engine Hp, and also by the composite armor against traditional armor in 2nd gen tanks.

As of now, the Arjun mk2, by a similar yardstick, would still be classified as a 3rd gen MBT, and be close in performance to the Leopards and the Merkavas, exceeding them in certain if not all parameters. The Russian T-95 on the other hand, was an attempt at a fourth gen MBT, as is the new Armata, both of which have all the above mentioned parameters improved by a vast level. Against this, the arjun mk2 still is a close evolution of the mk1.

However, the APS if fitted onto it, would give it some fourth gen capability.

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Nearly 650, 750-1000 are still under production..

Btw, does anyone know how many T-90s have we ordered and how many we have today?

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Arjun MK2 has both and MK-1 has separated ammo storage ..

Arjun does not have separated ammunition storage and blowoff panels.

 

[Dejawolf]

Arjun MK2 has both and MK-1 has separated ammo storage ..

there's no sliding blast doors and walls to compartmentalize the ammunition, and guide the exploding ammunition through the panels on the roof,
only armoured storage containers like in the merkava.
Nobody has seen the interior of the Arjun Mk.2, so anything said about it is just hearsay.

 

[WMD]

Btw, does anyone know how many T-90s have we ordered and how many we have today?

from SIPRI trade register

310 T-90S Tank 2001 2001-2006 (310) $600-700 m deal (incl 55% advance payment); reaction on Pakistani acquisition of 320 T-80UB tanks; 124 assembled from kits in India

(1000) T-90S Tank (2006) 2009-2012 (130)

347 T-90S Tank 2007 2008-2012 (347) $866 m deal (part of $2.5 b deal); option on some 700 more; assembled in India

so that's 310+130+347=787 T-90S delivered out of 1657.
to that add the new order for 354 T-90MS tanks,
India to purchase T-90MS Tanks for deployment along Sino-Indian border - World News - SINA English
Army scuttles Arjun trials to push through Russian T-90 purchase | Business Standard

so, eventually the total no. would come to 310+1000+347+354=2011, may b more if new order is given.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What you meant is isolated compartment for ammo storage or simply as isolated ammo, separate ammunition storage is not same as isolated ammo storage..

MK2 official specs are posted in this thread before many times, you should see that ..

there's no sliding blast doors and walls to compartmentalize the ammunition, and guide the exploding ammunition through the panels on the roof,only armoured storage containers like in the merkava. nobody has seen the interior of the Arjun Mk.2, so anything said about it is just hearsay.

 

[Dejawolf]

What you meant is isolated compartment for ammo storage or simply as isolated ammo, separate ammunition storage is not same as isolated ammo storage..

MK2 official specs are posted in this thread before many times, you should see that ..

isolated and separate are synonymous.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

They may have but not the same when used in technical terminology for Containerized / isolated ammunition bin..

isolated and separate are synonymous.

 

[pmaitra]

@Kunal Biswas and @Dejawolf

I guess the question is if the Arjun is hit by, say RPG-29, and the there is ammo cookoff, will the blast be directed outwards without causing any harm to the crew?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Not in case of MK-1, Specially of the hit is directly over ammo containers at specific location..

@Kunal Biswas and @Dejawolf

I guess the question is if the Arjun is hit by, say RPG-29, and the there is ammo cookoff, will the blast be directed outwards without causing any harm to the crew?

 

[Dejawolf]

@Kunal Biswas and @Dejawolf

I guess the question is if the Arjun is hit by, say RPG-29, and the there is ammo cookoff, will the blast be directed outwards without causing any harm to the crew?

No. The rounds are stored in individual sealed containers, thick enough to resist secondary spalling effects from a penetration.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun tank on train >>

Details of Rail car >>

BFAT Wagons are fitted with transition type center buffer couplers along with side buffers. This enables the wagon to be coupled to other rolling stocks either with center buffer couplers or screw couplers. Chains with pockets for lashing of tanks on the Wagon are provided. Four numbers of loading end flaps are provided over side buffer at both ends to facilitate loading of MBTs. Lashing chains and track guides are provided for guiding the movement of the tanks during loading and unloading as well as Wedge stops for securing the MBTs during transportation.BFAT Wagons are specially designed for transportation of main battle tanks viz., Arjun, T-72 / T- 90 and BMP-II.The Underframe is a heavy welded flat structure fabricated with steel plate flooring. Underframe will have provision to accommodate center pivot pin for bogies, buffers and transitional coupling.Bogies are of 3 Axle fabricated welded type with cylindrical roller bearing and brake linkage. The suspension arrangement is with leaf spring interlinked with the three axles through fulcrum lever.BFAT Wagons are provided with dual Brake. Air brake system of single pipe graduated release type. Air brake cylinders, valves, reservoirs, piping etc. are mounted on the bottom side of the underframe. The wagons are also provided with a hand brake. Vacuum pipe is also provided for attachment with vacuum rolling stock.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Some electronic Inputs for Arjun MBT MK2 >>