Projects get cancelled , that happens all the time.
But its different with the Americans and Germans they have multiple generations of design and development behind them.
Is it feasible for anyone to cancel their first generation design and development projects ?
Yes. Look at the Swedish J-21R. They built a few, like 60 or something and did not see service for more than 6 years. It was their first jet aircraft. Even Americans and Germans have cancelled projects that have brought delays by many years, even decades. The MBT-70 is an example. Even with their advanced industry, they suffered a delay of almost 15 years before the M1A1 by Americans and Leo by Germans replaced the M-60s.
Than MoD should have done a better job at accommodating Army wishes.
Why the army needed to request a cancellation and not a re-design , is also a question mark.
That's the reason why Arjun wasn't cancelled. Too many industries and too many people were involved. This was the time of economic turmoil too, so there was a high chance of cancellation. Nevertheless it stayed.
It was never a question of redesign, the Army wanted the same design as we see from Gen Roy Chaudhry's remarks about seeing Arjun inductions. DRDO did not deliver, it is as simple as that. Now that DRDO claims the tank is ready, it is too little too late. Nevertheless we will at least see around 500 tanks in operation.
Why did the army focus so much on tank that could challenge the abrams ?
A threat that never even materialized ,
It was obvious. The threat never materialized and so did the Arjun.
Today we have T-90's and the Chineses have Type-99's which is in the same wieght class as the Abrams , but we seem perfectly fine with T-90.
They aren't perfectly happy with the Type-99 either. For the size of their armour, the numbers are too less. 500 the last I heard, same as the Arjun. They have standardized on the Type-96 anyway, its their T-90 standard. The Pakistanis too will be doing the same with the modified Type-96.
If the T-90 was enough or what they wanted , why was the Original GSQR framed for a T-90 style tank.
This raises questions regarding the FMBT and how the Army may treat this project.
It was actually equivalent to a T-90AM, ie the Army wanted a tank that weighed 50 tons and have superior crew protection with working that is similar to Challenger, ie 4 crew and Rifled gun. The Arjun overshot the weight by 8.5 tons and now is over 10 tons over the 50 tons. Who knows why? Perhaps DRDO tried surpassing some objectives with western influences. The 50 tons, I got it from this Frontier journo who is an Arjun sympathizer called some Chacko Joseph.
That would imply the Arjun is more valuable than , you were ever willing to give it credit.
Also
Are u saying if the Army had the option to get an Arjun type tank as opposed to the T-90 they would have ?
Yes. COAS Chaudhary wanted production of Arjun to start very early, before sanctions hit us. It did not happen after Arjun was sanctioned. You know the drill after that.
I could say the same for every DRDO project ever criticized.
However none of us including me would leave it at that. We would look at the deliverable.
And in this case there is no PSQR and their is not GSQR.
What if it's ready and is just stuck in bureaucratic red tape at the MoD? You can't blame the army for that. We won't know if PSQR is delayed without official confirmation. We do not even know if Army has even sanctioned a new tank project by saying tanks in their current avatar are obsolete. Unless they tell something, we will never know. So, be patient.
As well as history of problems stemming from poor GSQR's regarding MBT's
ADA has been pursuing the MCA as their private venture till recently , when it was officially government sanctioned
and received funding and an ASR.
Perhaps, but if something is not feasible DRDO only has to say it. For eg; DRDO is doing a preliminary assessment for the AMCA. Now it is up to them if they can handle AMCA or not and they will let us know by the end of the year. If they cannot, but are greedy, then they will say they can do it simply to start receiving funding. Air force cannot do much in that case except wait for them to deliver.
If they can do it, or cannot do it, it does not matter. They will still say they can and delay other projects for IAF, like the LCA if they fail at delivery. If they don't they well and good for the country as well as the Air force and Army.
I would also like one instance of their supposed harping , regarding MCA. Because from what i remember it was all concepts that happen to catch our imagination on the forums
However, they weren't fan art like PAKFA before 2010. They were actual concepts from ADA.
What has the army done about the FMBT since they got approval to formulate the GSQR in 2008 , after conducting an international seminar on the future of tank design ?
your bias seems to blind you of all objectivity.
No it is not. International seminar does not signal the start of a GSQR. A consensus for a FMBT is really difficult. Nobody has it. There is the F-22, F-35 and PAKFA. Then there is a J-20 as well, but no FMBT from any country with 4th generation technologies.
India will be defining these 4th generation technologies. Even the Russian Armata may be a much more modern 3rd gen tank. So, give it more time because we may be setting the benchmark for a future tank.
There is large inventory of missiles , strategic and tactical. That serve as the front line of our forces. This includes our nuclear deterrent.
None of them are significantly different from anything that already exists. We are a generation behind all the P-5 countries in Ballistic Missiles.
I have no reason to question integrity.
But direction , course and competence. Those i will question
others should as well.
Direction, Course and Competence of an army is only judged by a military's performance in battle and not in a public debate.
After 1962, India has excelled in every war fought. This means the Generals are doing something right.
1962 was a political defeat.
1965 was a minor victory, we had the upper hand because we prevented PA from securing their objectives. But we could not capitalize on this. That's why Pak calls it a stalemate.
1971 was a military and intelligence victory.
1985 was a military victory.
1999 was an intelligence failure, but a military victory.
The skirmishes with China were military victories after 1962. The situation in SL was a political defeat.
So, nothing to indicate we have a major problem with how things are going. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
i some how doubt that ,
to this day people think the LCA project started in 1983
The start can be subjective, but the end is not. People believe LCA started in 1983, though it did not. But people know when it received IOC and when the first squadron will be in service.
regardless primary concern resolves around why they have to be extended , if the army does not know what it wants it raises concerns regarding the relevance of the GSQR it will submit
If DRDO continues the same, then we will be debating this in 2025 as well.
All design is a compromise of something for something else , with FMBT i see very little or no compromise.
Light weight tank with all the equipment , Armour and capabilities of much heavier contemporary's
The Europeans achieved something similar with the EF and Rafale. The current tanks that we speak of follow design principles from the 70s, even Arjun and T-90. Future designs will be of 2011 and above. The Americans have achieved quite a lot with their 40 ton tank. Too bad for the recession, or we would have seen a finished tank by 2017, as it were.
And i certainly hope that article considering a laser based APS was just the usual nonsense from India reporters
Nope, high chance it is real. The Laser is meant to defeat the IR sensor on ATGMs. Poorer cousins of this laser is seen in IR jammers on helicopters and some aircraft since the 70s. It's not some star wars thing. A 25KW laser is already being tested on a vehicle to clear IEDs. The Laser based APS seems to be a DRDO idea rather than the Armys.
The fact is DRDO has matured basic technologies required for MBTs because of Arjun, like an engine, armour, gun and chassis along with integration of electronics. So, the FMBT will not suffer from lack of basic technologies.
