Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[sayareakd]

now more and more Indian army officer from Mechanical division are seeing Arjun tank and they have accepted its performance.

 

[p2prada]

The current orders of 248 aren't even concrete. It was only said the Army is "set" to order the tanks pretty soon. I am sure the 248 tank order will come, but these orders are nothing compared to the T-90 orders made till date. That's 1640 tanks ordered till date.

The only time Arjun would be successful is if it replaces the T-types in the Cold Start doctrine. As long as the T-types are continued to be used in Army exercises the more we know the Arjun isn't part of any grand design by the Army. Arjun's success will be determined by the way the tank is used by the Army.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

now more and more Indian army officer from Mechanical division are seeing Arjun tank and they have accepted its performance.

Well they are only placing minimum orders, 500 tanks are enough. They should order atleast a 1000.

@GK, Why you miss something so simple we have a single HVF which run like snail with multiple order of different tanks.. My point is simple and clear..

Indian Armed forces men & Officers are always PRO - Indigenous, What happens in MOD, buricates and top brass cannot be seen as only Army`s view, If Any Civilian love to Find out take on some IA Officer with PRO-Foreign stuff soon will find himself in trouble..


In future time-line we will see Indian Deign and made Heavy system replacing and killing other foreign products, Its already started in all branches and categories, Google if u like..



Arjun Success History Re-posted:

Desert Ferrari and More..
'Desert Ferrari' and more

Indian Army chief appreciates performance of 'Arjun'
Indian Army chief appreciates performance of 'Arjun'
Deccan Herald - Indian Army chief appreciates Arjun tank's performance

Indian army deploys first indigenous tanks along Pakistan border
gulfnews : Indian army deploys first indigenous tanks along Pakistan border

Trials up: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90
Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90
Arjun tank outguns T-90 in desert trial - India News - IBNLive
Trials up: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90 - 1 - *2010: Defence & Internal Security Special on MSN India
Arjun tank outguns Russian T-90 in desert trial | Taaza.com
Army to purchase more Arjun tanks (India)
The TND Armoured Fighting Vehicle Forum::General Banter ::India's Arjun tank outruns and outguns Russian T-90

FLASH! Indian Army Orders 124 More Arjun Tanks!
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/05/flash-army-orders-124-more-arjun-tanks.htm

Army set to place order for 248 more arjun main battle tanks
Army set to place order for 248 more arjun main battle tanks - The Economic Times

 

[plugwater]

The current orders of 248 aren't even concrete. It was only said the Army is "set" to order the tanks pretty soon. I am sure the 248 tank order will come, but these orders are nothing compared to the T-90 orders made till date. That's 1640 tanks ordered till date.

The only time Arjun would be successful is if it replaces the T-types in the Cold Start doctrine. As long as the T-types are continued to be used in Army exercises the more we know the Arjun isn't part of any grand design by the Army. Arjun's success will be determined by the way the tank is used by the Army.

What is the production rate of T-90?
how many T-90M in 1640 tanks ?
How many we have inducted so far ?

 

[p2prada]

What is the production rate of T-90?
how many T-90M in 1640 tanks ?
How many we have inducted so far ?

Zero information till date. Literally nothing is known in the civilian circles. All we know is that T-90S production started in 2008 with 10 tank deliveries at the time. After that, zilch.

Tank warfare has always been secretive. The 1000 orders may be a mix of S and M types.

We don't know what is in the T-90M as well. Perhaps some info may come out during the next arms expo or possibly if some MP raises the issue in Parliament.

EDIT: The last we came to know about the number of MKIs in service, we got to know that from the Raksha Mantri himself in Parliament. Keep your eyes out for news released by PTI. It is easily the best source.

 

[sayareakd]

T90M is good......... that is what word on the street is.

 

[plugwater]

T90M is good......... that is what word on the street is.

Yes saya, I heard it is far superior than T-90S. Arjun vs T-90M will be fun

 

[sayareakd]

m is loaded with goodies, but MK2 is loaded with even better and more goodies, under test.

 

[sayareakd]

US gave Pak good tank, but when it come face to face with India it had only junk value, with new S, M and MKI and future MKII, Chinese develop MBT200O, made at Pak, would turn to junk in no time.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Was this posted really by an Israeli?
http://www.***********/forums/india-defence/95660-arjun-mark-ii-israeli-view-must-read.html


An Interesting Comment ... if u Appreciate Arjun ...

#1 Arjun is getting massive Israeli help and NOT 6 as being reported in many places in media, but 8 rolled out recently. There are some Armour and rifling techniques which Isreal has taken from India as they were truly impressive. Other than that a lot of contribution from Israel. NO I CAN NOTprove this right now.


This is what i know after discussing Arjun with a high ranking scientist who is a member of the Foreign defense services board (rough translation from Hebrew) who have worked on Arjun for the last 9 months. I personally witnessed a really cool addition to the recent 8, it employs the exact same copy of the HW and SW as the Abrams self diagnostic system...not only does it tell you when the tank is not feeling well but also tells you which part.

there is also a battle management system deployed....the funniest part was how decked up the CO's Arjun was...the seats are amazing, even the Russian contingent (overpaid pricks) were emotionally moved to see the interior with all the widgets - and went the best capitalist tank (being sarc. and all)

...i think i will be able to SOMEDAY get pictures of the ARJUN M2 and let you folks see what i have seen...it a true comfort to drive that tank
I walk among diffrent circles compared to many out here on the forum and intend to build a reputation where people believe me without much fuss...

as i will not always be able to post links (actually i am too deep into defense to rely on media and links to prove myself). Anyway i am off to a hunting trip organised my some army chaps here in India..will defanately take pictures and post that


#2 You really will have a problem ...say in a desert coming close to this machine. This is a really good machine...the main gun beats the Merkava any day.

Bloody hell the shear energy at extended range in ft.lb delivered with the accuracy is truly astonishing...i personally think this main gun is a accidental find for Indian's. the saboy round penetrated the hull of a t-55 derelict then went through the second one behind it and the place where it pierced the sand dune had a formation of glass crystals around the sand.

I have an idea (to how the Pakistanis can get it)...when the crew falls to sleep driving this beast - due to its crew comfort...you could run to it and shove some tnt between the hull and the chaise

#3 I just saw the interior picture of Al khaled. You have a serious problem here. Is that a prototype or the finished product? I am serious , i really need to know this.

I truly hope that it is not a finished product. If it is, my god " the very Question that arjune is a better tank is a understatement. You have no idea what you have here lads. Even if the idea is a "will get the job done and cheap to produce" Al Khaled can be mass produced is the idea of Pakistani Armour....etc etc....WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING?

Someone here tell me what is the purpose of Al-k...isit supposed to take on the inferior Indian tanks and put the t-80 against the arjun (still crazy - Russian admit it will eat the t-90) ok maybe its a attempt by Pakistan to atleast get hold of technologies to create a tank..etc etc
the nuts and bolts in alkhalid will kill the crew if a HESH round even nicked it. moreso the LR-APFSDS will cut like butter the armour....you guys better get some good reactive armour on this tiny thing. please any experts here..
i really wish to ask some questions on the al-khaled.

#4 Incidentally my father worked on a series of Merkava tanks (yes yes i am a Jew) i too graduated with honors in Armour. but right now in a slightly different objective in India. anyway i agree with you maneuver is imp.

BUT THEN AGAIN in all the discussion i have seen here maneuver is something gone a miss here. i havent driven a al -k but this arjun is as maneuverable as a Abram M2(spent a lot of my time with these tanks) ..no bloody difference, i dont know maybe al-khalid is much better compared to A-M2 in maneuver.

You will outrange it...by what 5000m from a reflexes Chinese copy of soviet projectile...do you think no one here thought of ATGM and countermeasure. This is the classified bit in electronics Israeli gave to Arjun. I am telling you buddy, someone better get serious about countering Arjun...its mere prototype passed direct hits from t-90 AP rounds (new round), it passed fragmented top attack munitions, You want to kill it.

a) you need to get it tracks off
b) in some way get the electronics off
c) hit it at less than 200 m from something like a Milan 3 repeatedly in hopefully the same area or
d)put a huge mine under it (has counter electronic to detect it...direct contribution from what is to be a Merkava 4 system)
e) i would have a serious debate going against this tank on a Merkava 3 and i am honors in armour and spent a few.

I think the brits will be very very interested in the armour these people have developed or even the rednecks....thats the level and quality you are looking at

 

[sayareakd]

GK this is known for years........................ posted at IDF long time back, with some interesting pics.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

GK this is known for years........................ posted at IDF long time back, with some interesting pics.

I did not see any pics, can you guide me to that?

Also the thread was started only in 2011!

 

[sayareakd]

I did not see any pics, can you guide me to that?

Also the thread was started only in 2011!

Gk those pics were lost, very good and some of very informative pic, even saw long view of Arjun tank with trophy at the both sides on top. He even said about Indian nuke sub in 2007, how we know it is S1 sub.

 

[venkat]

^^^ P2P ..i must appreciate ,its one of your best posts (#post 865)..Defence PSUs have tooooooooooo many procedures,toooo many mil standards and toooooo many cooks to spoil!!!!!

 

[p2prada]

^^^ P2P ..i must appreciate ,its one of your best posts (#post 865)..Defence PSUs have tooooooooooo many procedures,toooo many mil standards and toooooo many cooks to spoil!!!!!

Cheers.

The Army cannot function properly with bureaucratic hurdles, be it from the ministry or the defence PSUs wen they themselves make fast decisions. Heck the army is changing it's entire way of fighting wars by setting up 2 independent doctrines for both fronts. However reforms are happening as we speak in all the lumbering PSUs. DRDO is restructuring while HAL may get IAF directors. So, that's good news for all.

I had said this in the T-90 thread, and I will say it again. We will make state of the art aircraft and tanks only after we learn from the LCA and Arjun projects. The fruits of our labour will be reaped only during the 2020 and 2030 period. This is 10 years behind China in delivery. China is coming out with pretty good stuff and will continue to do so in this decade. We can possibly catch up with their pace using imports and JVs by the next decade.

 

[Tshering22]

Cheers.

The Army cannot function properly with bureaucratic hurdles, be it from the ministry or the defence PSUs wen they themselves make fast decisions. Heck the army is changing it's entire way of fighting wars by setting up 2 independent doctrines for both fronts. However reforms are happening as we speak in all the lumbering PSUs. DRDO is restructuring while HAL may get IAF directors. So, that's good news for all.

I had said this in the T-90 thread, and I will say it again. We will make state of the art aircraft and tanks only after we learn from the LCA and Arjun projects. The fruits of our labour will be reaped only during the 2020 and 2030 period. This is 10 years behind China in delivery. China is coming out with pretty good stuff and will continue to do so in this decade. We can possibly catch up with their pace using imports and JVs by the next decade.

Very well put up. DRDO has two choices: either get a field-working major level officer (of armored division) to head the DRDO (not some three star general living off foreign paychecks and commission but someone who's actually working on field with tanks) and get a group captain level pilot to manage HAL and ADA directly. Same goes for MDL' case with a Captain level officer from the Navy having active service to actually head the PSU.

The other step is privatize all of these industries; let the majors buy them off, retain the brains and research and multiply and enhance it through private style dealing, under government vigil like USA.

If either of these steps are not taken in time, we will fall very badly behind Chinese.

 

[p2prada]

Very well put up. DRDO has two choices: either get a field-working major level officer (of armored division) to head the DRDO (not some three star general living off foreign paychecks and commission but someone who's actually working on field with tanks) and get a group captain level pilot to manage HAL and ADA directly. Same goes for MDL' case with a Captain level officer from the Navy having active service to actually head the PSU.

HAL is supposed to have a chairman who is Air marshal and above. You need to be Brigadier or Air marshal and above for such posts. This position is well above the pay grade of a Major or even a Colonel, Group Captain or a Navy Captain.

The assumption that Brigadiers and above eat the money coming from foreign paychecks is false. Our military has not fallen, there is too much pride at stake.

Only Brigadiers and above are capable enough of running these enterprises.

The other step is privatize all of these industries; let the majors buy them off, retain the brains and research and multiply and enhance it through private style dealing, under government vigil like USA.

It will never happen. No private company will involve itself in R&D of big ticket projects and they cannot afford to take up DRDO's or HAL's mantle anyway. There is too much risk in R&D and everybody knows that.

You could spend $60billion on an aircraft and end up selling only 187 airframes for $30Billion. Big Loss.

 

[rahulrds1]

p2prada

About LCA/Arujun Mk2, We can say,

"The moment you think of giving up...., think about the reason why you held on for so long"

 

[p2prada]

p2prada

About LCA/Arujun Mk2, We can say,

"The moment you think of giving up...., think about the reason why you held on for so long"

That does not make sense. That is meant for relationships and attitude, not tank projects.

Why don't you read about MBT-70 and figure out why the Germans and Americans abandoned the project after 10 years instead of continuing like a bunch of headless chickens?

Anyway I was never talking about cancelling the projects. I always supported having DRDO continue the projects in order to build a military industrial complex. But I did not want the services to induct half finished products and suffer for DRDO's mistakes.

The Arjun Mk1 sucks and the LCA Mk1 is worse. The Mk2 versions have rectified a lot of the problems, but even they aren't far from being right up there. The services requirements have changed with modern times but DRDO is not able to deliver yet.

 

[Immanuel]

That does not make sense. That is meant for relationships and attitude, not tank projects.

Why don't you read about MBT-70 and figure out why the Germans and Americans abandoned the project after 10 years instead of continuing like a bunch of headless chickens?

Anyway I was never talking about cancelling the projects. I always supported having DRDO continue the projects in order to build a military industrial complex. But I did not want the services to induct half finished products and suffer for DRDO's mistakes.

The Arjun Mk1 sucks and the LCA Mk1 is worse. The Mk2 versions have rectified a lot of the problems, but even they aren't far from being right up there. The services requirements have changed with modern times but DRDO is not able to deliver yet.

lets not get too harsh on those projects, Arjun mk-1 has already outperformed the T-90, its abilities are better than the t-90 which already is among the best tanks in the world. Arjun mk-2 will be even better considering that it will have about 93 improvements, i am pretty sure once ready for production it will be the best tank in the world with unmatched terrain and fire power abilities. lca mk-1 too is a better performer than mirage and the f-16, lca mk-2 will be the best 4.5 gen+ single engined fighter, all that with hardly any previous experience in tank or aircraft development. These projects have had long developement times primarily due to changing user requirements not to mention some of the most stringent operational requirements in sheer product ruggedness, quality, all terrain capability. India is blessed with some of the world's most varied and harsh terrain where a lot of existing products simply can't perform. once they begin meeting the latest requirements, both IA and IAF will be more than delighted with these products.