Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Storm shadow]

Arjun mk1 has much better gyroscopic gun control systems and ballistic computer than T 90.It is evident in the comparative trials where Arjuns hardly missed a target at move.Beside Arjun's 52 calibre main gun that can fire the single piece longrod penetrators are way stronger than the 2A46 of T90 which fires much shorter and lighter penetrators and has much lesser penetration power than Arjun.And the armor,well,we can't even compare them.T90S/M is a junk at best against Arjun.
It is actually shameful for Arjuns to be even compared with T90s.
REGARDS....

 

[p2prada]

We have discussed this earlier. The Arjun Mk2 is meant to equalize or exceed the T-90 in armour and firepower depending on the version of T-90 we are talking about. The Mk1 did not.

Mk2 orders would mean either the T-90 had issues or the T-72 upgrade program has hit a roadblock. Nevertheless the Arjuns will be going to the Southern Command which would mean a defensive doctrine.

The Mk2 orders may also help in keeping the production line running until FMBT is ready for mass production in 2020. That's 7+ years for a 372 order once the first 124 are out. Or 5 years for 248 Mk2s after 2014. That will keep production line busy until 2020.

 

[p2prada]

Deleted.........

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun mk1 has much better gyroscopic gun control systems and ballistic computer than T 90.It is evident in the comparative trials where Arjuns hardly missed a target at move.Beside Arjun's 52 calibre main gun that can fire the single piece longrod penetrators are way stronger than the 2A46 of T90 which fires much shorter and lighter penetrators and has much lesser penetration power than Arjun.And the armor,well,we can't even compare them.T90S/M is a junk at best against Arjun.
It is actually shameful for Arjuns to be even compared with T90s.
REGARDS....

We have discussed this earlier. The Arjun Mk2 is meant to equalize or exceed the T-90 in armour and firepower depending on the version of T-90 we are talking about. The Mk1 did not.

Yes, Their should be no competition who is better here..

Remember Our Men are operating them in harsh condition that we never heard abt..

Respect that and Carry on..

Arjuns will be going to the Southern Command which would mean a defensive doctrine.

Dont say what you Dont Know !

For your Knowledge any command are part of both offensive also defensive doctrine..

Also their are no acknowledgment which regiments of which corp will be given Arjun mk-2..

No one knows yet, Dont speculate ..

 

[sayareakd]

I think what you guys are talking about is shown in this video, check after frame No. 3.47 onwards till 4.01

 

[sayareakd]

 

[Storm shadow]

We have discussed this earlier. The Arjun Mk2 is meant to equalize or exceed the T-90 in armour and firepower depending on the version of T-90 we are talking about. The Mk1 did not.

Mk2 orders would mean either the T-90 had issues or the T-72 upgrade program has hit a roadblock. Nevertheless the Arjuns will be going to the Southern Command which would mean a defensive doctrine.

The Mk2 orders may also help in keeping the production line running until FMBT is ready for mass production in 2020. That's 7+ years for a 372 order once the first 124 are out. Or 5 years for 248 Mk2s after 2014. That will keep production line busy until 2020.

You are talking bs here man.Arjun mk1 has already outclassed the T90S by far in both firepower
and armor.There is no doubt about it.I have seen for long that you are a diehard russian fan or should I say a fanboy.Without the Kontact5 the T90 can't even withstand a single RPG7 and Kanchan mk1 withstood hits from even Kornet ATGMs.Even multiple Israelly 125 mm FSAPDS T rounds and the indian mk2 rounds fired from T90 at point blanck range could not defeat the Kanchan armor.That should answer your question.

And please don't talk about the firepower of the 2A46 gun that fires only 550 mm long penetrtors which have a mere weight of 7 kg.On the other hand the ARDE L52 fires 950mm longrod rounds with a weight of 10.8 kg and are fitted with hardened ballistic caps.Both guns have same mussel velocity of 1720 meter/sec.So now you decide which one is better,but to understand you need to know about physics.
In fact if both gun use tungsten rounds the ARDE L52 beats the Rheinmetal L44 smoothbore handsdown which has a mussel velocity of just 1550 meter/sec.
Beside most people think that the Arjun's guns are less powerful because it is rifled.The spin from rifling bleeds some of the kinetic energy into rotating motion.But ARDE scientists overcame this problem by a simple but brilliant innovation-they used barings into the sabot,so that while travelling through the barrel the sabots starts to spin but the rod remains linear.So Arjun has got a rifled gun that is just as powerful as a smoothbore one of same length but in addition can also fire HESH rounds that are must against concrete pil boxes and that smoothbore guns can't fire.
REGARDS....

 

[Storm shadow]

Besides,do you know what the biggest weakness of T72s and T90s?It's their carousal autoloader.It's an hinderence than help.Why?Let me tell-
1.These autoloaders can't hold modern longrod penetrators which are usualy 940-960 meter in length,seriously degrading the tank's fire power.
2.It's firing rate is 8 meter/min while a manual loader can also load 7-8 rounds/min.So it gives no significant advantage.
3.A manual loader does not need maintainance and will never be jammed.Instead he helps the other members in maintainance of the tank.But an autoloader can very well get jammed which is common and then the tank will be as good as nothing.Besides it needs maintainance and because the 3 man crew the workload even increases many times due to less hands and more work.
4.This is the biggest weakness of the carousal autoloader.It stores all the ammos in the hull around the crew right into the crew compartment.So,if the armor is penetrated during a war(which will definately be due to the weak armor)the rounds will burst,the turret will come out of the tank like a Jack in the box and ultimately the crew will die an agonising death.
That's all I wanted to say.Hope I did not bore you guys.
REGARDS....

 

[sayareakd]

we are loving it........................................

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You are talking bs here man.Arjun mk1 has already outclassed the T90S by far in both firepower
and armor.There is no doubt about it.I have seen for long that you are a diehard russian fan or should I say a fanboy.Without the Kontact5 the T90 can't even withstand a single RPG7 and Kanchan mk1 withstood hits from even Kornet ATGMs.Even multiple Israelly 125 mm FSAPDS T rounds and the indian mk2 rounds fired from T90 at point blanck range could not defeat the Kanchan armor.That should answer your question.

And please don't talk about the firepower of the 2A46 gun that fires only 550 mm long penetrtors which have a mere weight of 7 kg.On the other hand the ARDE L52 fires 950mm longrod rounds with a weight of 10.8 kg and are fitted with hardened ballistic caps.Both guns have same mussel velocity of 1720 meter/sec.So now you decide which one is better,but to understand you need to know about physics.
In fact if both gun use tungsten rounds the ARDE L52 beats the Rheinmetal L44 smoothbore handsdown which has a mussel velocity of just 1550 meter/sec.
Beside most people think that the Arjun's guns are less powerful because it is rifled.The spin from rifling bleeds some of the kinetic energy into rotating motion.But ARDE scientists overcame this problem by a simple but brilliant innovation-they used barings into the sabot,so that while travelling through the barrel the sabots starts to spin but the rod remains linear.So Arjun has got a rifled gun that is just as powerful as a smoothbore one of same length but in addition can also fire HESH rounds that are must against concrete pil boxes and that smoothbore guns can't fire.
REGARDS....

Besides,do you know what the biggest weakness of T72s and T90s?It's their carousal autoloader.It's an hinderence than help.Why?Let me tell-
1.These autoloaders can't hold modern longrod penetrators which are usualy 940-960 meter in length,seriously degrading the tank's fire power.
2.It's firing rate is 8 meter/min while a manual loader can also load 7-8 rounds/min.So it gives no significant advantage.
3.A manual loader does not need maintainance and will never be jammed.Instead he helps the other members in maintainance of the tank.But an autoloader can very well get jammed which is common and then the tank will be as good as nothing.Besides it needs maintainance and because the 3 man crew the workload even increases many times due to less hands and more work.
4.This is the biggest weakness of the carousal autoloader.It stores all the ammos in the hull around the crew right into the crew compartment.So,if the armor is penetrated during a war(which will definately be due to the weak armor)the rounds will burst,the turret will come out of the tank like a Jack in the box and ultimately the crew will die an agonising death.
That's all I wanted to say.Hope I did not bore you guys.
REGARDS....

@Storm shadow,

What you are starting right now, is been discussed long ago almost +30 pages are full of it, with all due respect move your discussion there, I don't want this thread ruin in post and counter post to infinity, further posts may get reported..

http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-army/208-indias-born-again-t-90m-mbt-6.html

http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-army/208-indias-born-again-t-90m-mbt-6.html


Discussion starts from page 7..

Read ever page, You will know more abt both system then what u know already..


Thank you..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

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[Storm shadow]

....

THANX sir for posting that thread link.I shall behave properly from now on.But he started all this with his false claim that Arjun mk1 is weaker than T 90.
By the way,can you or any other senior member please answer my question??
I wanted to ask that why are the russians still using slopped armor into their tanks instead of perpendicular armor????
THANX in advance........

 

[Kunal Biswas]

THANX sir for posting that thread link.I shall behave properly from now on.But he started all this with his false claim that Arjun mk1 is weaker than T 90.
By the way,can you or any other senior member please answer my question??
I wanted to ask that why are the russians still using slopped armor into their tanks instead of perpendicular armor????
THANX in advance........

No they dont, Merkava is only one with True Sloped Armour, Recent Russian Tank Turrets are not sloped or rounded but same as western Box turrets, Only difference is heavy ERA on front same goes for LEO A5/6/7, Their are very less modification on original LEO-A4 turret, major improvement is the new location of sight of the FCS other than that, the modular Armour at front of LEOA5/6/7...

Arjun is based on LEOA4, Almost every thing is same as Leoa4 but Arjun turret is bigger and thicker from sides compare to A4, I think what we will see is similar to Leo-a5/6/7 in coming days, And its possible we may see a Indian Heavy ERA much like Ukrainian Knife ERA..

 

[sayareakd]

I wanted to ask that why are the russians still using slopped armor into their tanks instead of perpendicular armor????
THANX in advance........

Russian innovated slopped armor in WWII, this is for the reason that is give more protection without adding weight.

so they will continue to use their invention.

 

[Storm shadow]

No they dont, Merkava is only one with True Sloped Armour, Recent Russian Tank Turrets are not sloped or rounded but same as western Box turrets, Only difference is heavy ERA on front same goes for LEO A5/6/7, Their are very less modification on original LEO-A4 turret, major improvement is the new location of sight of the FCS other than that, the modular Armour at front of LEOA5/6/7...

Arjun is based on LEOA4, Almost every thing is same as Leoa4 but Arjun turret is bigger and thicker from sides compare to A4, I think what we will see is similar to Leo-a5/6/7 in coming days, And its possible we may see a Indian Heavy ERA much like Ukrainian Knife ERA..

Nope,T 90s still use the rounded turrets.And yeah,the Merkava mk4 uses highly sloped turret.
But why????
Arjun mk2 will use combination of indigenous heavy ERA-NERA combo for sure.

 

[Storm shadow]

Self delete. .... .... .... .... .... .... .... ....

 

[pack leader]

Nope,T 90s still use the rounded turrets.And yeah,the Merkava mk4 uses highly sloped turret.
But why????

we use different armor tech nera followed by metal ceramic mix followed by different nera
it was developed in 40 years of fighting and the exact components are the biggest conventional secret in Israel

 

[Storm shadow]

Russian innovated slopped armor in WWII, this is for the reason that is give more protection without adding weight.

so they will continue to use their invention.

Yeah,that was true when tanks used armor made of high hardened still and lower velocity guns.The rounds got ricocheted after slamming on the sloped armor.But today's HEAT and FSAPDS rounds can easily penetrate sloped armor.Beside today tanks use composite armor and using the composite armor at sloped position has more disadvantages than advantages if any.Let me explain,as you know current tanks use carbon composite,glass reinforced plastic,kevlar,steel but most important component is the ceramic tiles(kanchan uses boron carbide and silicon carbide combo).This tiles provides the primary protection against HEAT and FSAPDS rounds.The ceramic tiles are very hard but at the same time extremely fragile.So after stopping a heat the tiles get destroyed leaving that portion of the tank vulnerable.That's why tanks use small tiles(kanchan uses 4''*4''*1.5''tiles,courtesyrasun Chor Gupta)so that only a smaller portion get damaged.Now if you use sloped armor the round will penetrate the outer laires and then ricochet, breaking a larger number of tiles than if the armor would be fitted perpendicularly and thus leaving a much larger portion of the armor vulnerable.But if the armor is built in a perpendicular way,it will still defeat the rounds but the rounds will not get ricocheted.So only the sole tile will that will be hit will get damaged.That way perpendicular composite armor is more efficient than sloped armor and that's why modern tanks including Arjun MBT don't use sloped armor.

REGARDS....

 

[nitesh]

here we go again................

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Nope,T 90s still use the rounded turrets.And yeah,the Merkava mk4 uses highly sloped turret.
But why????
Arjun mk2 will use combination of indigenous heavy ERA-NERA combo for sure.

Check post number #181..
http://defenceforumindia.com/indian-army/208-indias-born-again-t-90m-mbt-13.html

I even provided a Pic behind T-90S ERA, Go through the thread, Dont bring any more T-90S here..

Arjun MK-2 may use Hybrid Armour, originally deigned for FMBT, multilayer laminate (composite) armor with additional dynamic protection like ERA, NERA and more.