Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

bharadwaj

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The cost per Arjun mark-1 tank is about 3 million dollars.With the addition of further indigenous systems,the cost should be considerably less.If the life cycle cost per Arjun mark-2 is around 40 million dollars then what would its unit price be?
 

bharadwaj

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I dont think so Kunal sir. There are lot of modified T-72 based tanks all over the world. Moreover for Tank-EX the tank hull is not modified for it (thought not sure).

Degman of Croatia


PT-91 of Polnad


If this is possible then why cant we make our own version with it? Instead of upgrading the old T-72 of 75 batches can be replaced with this rite? why not people even dare to think of it.
Sir,we already have a JV with a Polish company to develop a "LIGHT TANK".Is this to replace our T-72 Ajeya or will this be a fresh system for our army?
 

dineshchaturvedi

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it is heart breaking that we have this report of Sep 2004, now 2010 is going to over in few days and still we dont have this tank in large number.

Even after beating T90 tank, DGMF has only given symbolic order, that to after danda from GOI. :angry_6::angry_10:
That bolder part never happened, Mr Ajay Sukhla was just lobbying for PSU. The tank was good but never beat the T90. I heard this from the horses mouth. The Army told that since they cannot respond officially to this stupidity, it survives.

The tank will be used in defensive formation by army not in offensive. They said it is better than T72 but not close to T90.
I cannot give you a source because this is from my personal interaction. I don't want to live in wonderland.
 

Agantrope

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Sir,we already have a JV with a Polish company to develop a "LIGHT TANK".Is this to replace our T-72 Ajeya or will this be a fresh system for our army?
Light Tanks are meant to operate in hilly, jungle NE Regions and not as a T-72 replacement.
 

bharadwaj

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So does this mean that we'll equip our newly raised mountain division with these or will this lead to the creation of a new armored division specially meant for our eastern adversary?
 

Rahul Singh

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That bolder part never happened, Mr Ajay Sukhla was just lobbying for PSU. The tank was good but never beat the T90. I heard this from the horses mouth. The Army told that since they cannot respond officially to this stupidity, it survives.

The tank will be used in defensive formation by army not in offensive. They said it is better than T72 but not close to T90.
I cannot give you a source because this is from my personal interaction. I don't want to live in wonderland.
Ajai Shukla also claims hearing from horse mouth and people find reasons to believe him because his an ex tanker. BTW if he is lobbying for PSU then your source can also be lying for import lobby. Anyway i have reasons to believe Ajai Shukla because one source close to my uncle(Lt Co) has conveyed to him that Arjun is class above MBT and far more superior and reliable than T-90 especially in desert.

No their is no official account which says Arjun will be used only in defensive line.
 

Kunal Biswas

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So does this mean that we'll equip our newly raised mountain division with these or will this lead to the creation of a new armored division specially meant for our eastern adversary?
IA is looking for special equipment for arming mountain divisions ( Not two but more than two ) included:

ULH: M777
Tanks: Anders ( Polish/Indo light tank )

And many more not know to us..
 

Rahul Singh

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It doesn't end with it. Army is also raising specialized infantry regiments for mountain warfare. Earlier there were no specialized infantry regiments for mountain warfare in Army. All in all with ALHs, air mobile artillery, light MBTs and specialized infantry army is constructing a wall of defense to counter any Chinese aggression.
 

sayareakd

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That bolder part never happened, Mr Ajay Sukhla was just lobbying for PSU. The tank was good but never beat the T90. I heard this from the horses mouth. The Army told that since they cannot respond officially to this stupidity, it survives.

The tank will be used in defensive formation by army not in offensive. They said it is better than T72 but not close to T90.
I cannot give you a source because this is from my personal interaction. I don't want to live in wonderland.
I am not buddy, keep believing Ajay Sukhla. I would rather believe Indian Army.
Thanks for the source of your info, the same Army (DGMF) who has time and again tried to go for T series tank and when we found that Arjun Vs T 90S contest cannot be avoided DGMF gave the lollipop of FMBT (T95).

BTW my source of Information that Arjun has solid armour which will provide protection to its crew comes from the person in the pic. ( i cannot say more then that)

 

nitesh

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That bolder part never happened, Mr Ajay Sukhla was just lobbying for PSU. The tank was good but never beat the T90. I heard this from the horses mouth. The Army told that since they cannot respond officially to this stupidity, it survives.

The tank will be used in defensive formation by army not in offensive. They said it is better than T72 but not close to T90.
I cannot give you a source because this is from my personal interaction. I don't want to live in wonderland.
Here it goes again, this keeps coming, it seems nothing can be made better then T 90 in this world. The Absoluteness of tank design, no matter how many times this has been debated and proved that arjun has better chance of crew survivability due to better armor, has better gun due to which first kill probability is more.

But no it can not be better then T 90, because T 90 is absolute. There is absolutely no problem with T 90 (hint The thermal cameras not working properly, AC needed now because of desert heat, but hey arjun works without that so it is not good, because if a tank electronics works without AC then there is some severe issue with the tanks right?, Why in world T 90 needs BMS, it's useless tech these DRDO guys working on, right?, Why ERA is getting added, well it was well protected before only, hey adding more armour adds weight so need to upgrade the engine, hang on T 90 is absolute, there is no problem with it right?)
 

Anshu Attri

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ARJUN MK2 : Israeli View
may be rumor......

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/land-forces/15901-arjun-mk2-israeli-view.html

Well guys i dunno if anyone here knows Denil but i saw his some post in keypublishing avation forums, i forgot.
some days back he posted something in PDF about the Arjun.

Here are his replies.. on PDF

Some Israeli guy (named Denil) on a Pakistani Def forum had some interesting replies to a similar topic;

I'm quoting his replies to the topic

1 Arjun is getting massive Israeli help and NOT 6 as being reported in many places in media, but 8 rolled out recently. There are some Armour and rifling techniques which Isreal has taken from India as they were truly impressive. Other than that a lot of contribution from Israel. NO I CAN NOTprove this right now. This is what i know after discussing Arjun with a high ranking scientist who is a member of the Foreign defense services board (rough translation from Hebrew) who have worked on Arjun for the last 9 months. I personally witnessed a really cool addition to the recent 8, it employs the exact same copy of the HW and SW as the Abrams self diagnostic system...not only does it tell you when the tank is not feeling well but also tells you which part. there is also a battle management system deployed....the funniest part was how decked up the CO's Arjun was...the seats are amazing, even the Russian contingent (overpaid pricks) were emotionally moved to see the interior with all the widgets - and went the best capitalist tank (being sarc. and all)

...i think i will be able to SOMEDAY get pictures of the ARJUN M2 and let you folks see what i have seen...it a true comfort to drive that tank
I walk among diffrent circles compared to many out here on the forum and intend to build a reputation where people believe me without much fuss...as i will not always be able to post links (actually i am too deep into defense to rely on media and links to prove myself). Anyway i am off to a hunting trip organised my some army chaps here in India..will defanately take pictures and post that

#2 You really will have a problem ...say in a desert coming close to this machine. This is a really good machine...the main gun beats the Merkava any day. Bloody hell the shear energy at extended range in ft.lb delivered with the accuracy is truly astonishing...i personally think this main gun is a accidental find for Indian's. the saboy round penetrated the hull of a t-55 derelict then went through the second one behind it and the place where it pierced the sand dune had a formation of glass crystals around the sand.
I have an idea (to how the Pakistanis can get it)...when the crew falls to sleep driving this beast - due to its crew comfort...you could run to it and shove some tnt between the hull and the chaise


#3 I just saw the interior picture of Al khaled. You have a serious problem here. Is that a prototype or the finished product? I am serious , i really need to know this.
I truly hope that it is not a finished product. If it is, my god " the very Question that arjune is a better tank is a understatement. You have no idea what you have here lads. Even if the idea is a "will get the job done and cheap to produce" Al Khaled can be mass produced is the idea of Pakistani Armour....etc etc....WHAT ARE YOU GUYS THINKING?
Someone here tell me what is the purpose of Al-k...isit supposed to take on the inferior Indian tanks and put the t-80 against the arjun (still crazy - Russian admit it will eat the t-90) ok maybe its a attempt by Pakistan to atleast get hold of technologies to create a tank..etc etc
the nuts and bolts in alkhalid will kill the crew if a HESH round even nicked it. moreso the LR-APFSDS will cut like butter the armour....you guys better get some good reactive armour on this tiny thing. [/COLOR=red]please any experts here
i really wish to ask some questions on the al-khaled.

#4 Incidentally my father worked on a series of Merkava tanks (yes yes i am a Jew) i too graduated with honors in Armour. but right now in a slightly different objective in India. anyway i agree with you maneuver is imp. BUT THEN AGAIN in all the discussion i have seen here maneuver is something gone a miss here. i havent driven a al -k but this arjun is as maneuverable as a Abram M2(spent a lot of my time with these tanks) ..no bloody difference, i dont know maybe al-khalid is much better compared to A-M2 in maneuver. You will outrange it...by what 5000m from a reflexes Chinese copy of soviet projectile...do you think no one here thought of ATGM and countermeasure. This is the classified bit in electronics Israeli gave to Arjun. I am telling you buddy, someone better get serious about countering Arjun...its mere prototype passed direct hits from t-90 AP rounds (new round), it passed fragmented top attack munitions, You want to kill it.
a) you need to get it tracks off
b) in some way get the electronics off
c) hit it at less than 200 m from something like a Milan 3 repeatedly in hopefully the same area or
d)put a huge mine under it (has counter electronic to detect it...direct contribution from what is to be a Merkava 4 system)
e) i would have a serious debate going against this tank on a Merkava 3 and i am honors in armour and spent a few. I think the brits will be very very interested in the armour these people have developed or even the rednecks....thats the level and quality you are looking at


Most of this was news to me. Whaddya think?

Here is the link to PDF on the discussion denils appearance is on some pages after.http://forum.pakistanidefence.com/?showtopic=22232&st=40
Now this thread is from WAB only Indian Armour - Futurehttp://www.worldaffairsboard.com/international-defense-topics/12949-indian-armour-future.html

It shows the arjun firing lahat.

so is it possible arjun is going to be a real good one? and why noone has no news about this?
anyone knows denil here ? is this all plain BS as trusting peoples on internet is tuff on opinions i mean whom u dunno at all.
 

thakur_ritesh

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if someone can, please invite denil over, he is someone who has been associated with the development work of arjun tank. do extend an invitation on behalf of DFI. tell him friends from the days of indian defence forum are remembering him. thanks.


Well guys i dunno if anyone here knows Denil but i saw his some post in keypublishing avation forums, i forgot.
some days back he posted something in PDF about the Arjun.
 

bharadwaj

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@Anshu-Thanks for the insight brother.If what Denil says is true then the acquisition of the T-90 is a HUGE SHAM!All the best to those involved in the creation of Arjun mark-2.After reading what you just posted,the name Arjun suits him perfectly.
 

gogbot

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That bolder part never happened, Mr Ajay Sukhla was just lobbying for PSU. The tank was good but never beat the T90. I heard this from the horses mouth. The Army told that since they cannot respond officially to this stupidity, it survives.

The tank will be used in defensive formation by army not in offensive. They said it is better than T72 but not close to T90.
I cannot give you a source because this is from my personal interaction. I don't want to live in wonderland.
Two tanks can only be different in so many ways.

Arjun has better Mechanics , Armor , FCS and Gun.
That has already been established.

It is a tank of higher weight class it is going to perform better. It's simply packed in with a lot more stuff which is more modern than whats on the T-90.

The Arjun vs T-90 trials was always in favor of the Arjun so far as design spec is concerend.

As a result at the trials. there was only ever going to be one of two outcomes.

The Arjun was in fact riddled with design problems , it could not meet most of its design specs it was underpart and could not best the T-90.
As a result there would have been no reason to make or buy a tank that weighs more, costs more and less reliable.

However the second outcome would mean that the Arjun has fully met its design Spec, it perform reliably , it outclassed the T-90 as it is designed to do in various aspects.
With Both MoD and IA having no reason not to induct the tank , an order would have had to have been placed(regardless of weather or not the Army was wholly supportive) , with the MoD also Sanctioning the Arjun MKII , Despite Army requirements for the FMBT.

To say that
"Arjun Performed good , but not as good as the T-90."
Makes no sense what so ever , if the Arjun performed well it would have had to have out class the T-90.

However if i were to consider this as a statement made in a internal memo to various ministry and Army staff for most undoubtedly quires regarding the trials.
it would be a simple way to try and void questions regarding unwarranted criticism and delays in Indigenous acquisitions.

May be i am wrong , and my whole logic is messed.

But after years of being the Hardest critic the Arjun has had, Our army which has been more than happy to talk about its weight, reliability and logistics issues with the media in the past , to remain to silent now.

With this being the only official document to be released following the trials

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/AdvSearch.aspx

Army Decides to Take 124 More MBT Arjun(5/17/2010 12:55:48 PM)

The Army has decided to place fresh order for an additional home-built 124 Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun. This is over and above the existing order of 124 tanks. The development follows the success of the indigenous MBT Arjun in the recent gruelling desert trials.

The project for the design and development of the MBT Arjun was approved by the Government in 1974 with an aim to give the required indigenous cutting edge to our Mechanised Forces. After many years of trial and tribulation it has now proved its worth by its superb performance under various circumstances, such as driving cross-country over rugged sand dunes, detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets, accurately hitting targets – both stationary and moving, with pin pointed accuracy. Its superior fire-power is based on accurate and quick target acquisition capability during day and night in all types of weather and shortest possible reaction time during combat engagements.

Sitanshu Kar / RAJ
Release Id :61870
Obviously this was preceded by this

MBT Arjun(4/26/2010 7:54:05 PM)

The decision on the further order of the MBT Arjun tanks would be based on the results of recently concluded comparative trials of MBT Arjun and T-90 tanks.

Certain components of MBT Arjun are imported based on the indigenous design of their configurations. The other systems are indigenously designed and produced.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri S Semmalai and Shri GS Basavaraj in Lok Sabha today.

PK / RAJ
Release Id :60943
And then of Course Followed by this

Arjun Tanks(8/9/2010 6:16:38 PM)

The Indian Army is placing an order for 124 Arjun Tanks Mark – II in addition to the equal number of Mark – I ordered earlier. Tank T-90, Tank T-72, and Arjun tanks are all main battle tanks of the Indian Army.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in a written reply to Shri BP Tarai and Shri Prabodh Panda in Lok Sabha today.

HH / RAJ
Release Id :64467
There are Valid logistics reasons against the Arjun , The round needed for the Arjun still has not been produced in sufficient quantity for spares.
Production line is slow. Most likely doubt still exist of the Manufacturing quality.
But all those improve or are solved by increasing the number of orders.
I am sure there are valid weigh issues.

But nothing i have seen so far tells me a reason as to why the Arjun tank needs to be limited to small scale orders while thousands of T-72 get upgrades for their Antiquated designs.

Modernisation of T-72 Tanks Vis-a-Vis Arjun Tanks(8/25/2010 4:35:11 PM)

The Army follows a philosophy of having a mix of legacy equipment, equipment with matured technology and state-of-the-art equipment. T-72 tank is not an antiquated equipment. Therefore, the Army intends to retrofit/upgrade these tanks to enhance their mission reliability and life expectancy.

Orders for 124 Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun have already been placed on the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi. As on date, 85 MBT Arjun Tanks have been issued to the Army. Keeping in view the production capacity for MBT Arjun Tanks and strategic considerations, the Government is also exercising the option for modernising T-72 tanks instead of total replacement of these tanks on completion of their life span.

This information was given by Defence Minister Shri AK Antony in written reply to Shri MV Mysura Reddy in Rajya Sabha today.

DM / RAJ
Release Id :65237
If i am living in wonderland i have crafted my self , quite the delusion.
 

gogbot

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I don't know how i feel about this denil ,
No one who has insider ques just blabs on the forums. I wouldn't just take this guys word for it.
This is just like the Chinese saying
the J-XX is going to fly soon.

The only thing i can do is get on with my life s for the next 2-4 years and wait for this stuff to start coming through blogs as rumors and then hopefully official releases.

It was a funny read however , must of lit a fire under the Pakistani Readers.
Seems like a troll post more than anything else lol.

However i truly hope they are using any and all Israeli assistance available to them .
The Markeva tanks are truly spectacular. Regardless of how good Arjun may or may not be it only stands to benefit from more Israeli tech.

trophy system as an Optional addon
 
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sesha_maruthi27

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Arjun MK-1 really a great achievement by the DRDO and it should be produced in bulk.....................:emot112:
 

sesha_maruthi27

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Why don't many people here believe in our indigenious technology and always down play our own inventions..........................
 

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