Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[bengalraider]

I believe the IA had a problem with the existing size and weight if the remotely operated gun as shown on the MPV above(it reportedly weighs near a ton).
@ saya Gen Zia of Pakistan was killed on the way to evaluate the M1A1 , later officials did not share his enthusiasm for the american behemoth as they were more attuned to the Chinese MIC , better for us i say.

 

[sayareakd]

@BR here is technical specifications of the remote gun control station

Technical Data

Armament
Body

Ammunition
Pin firing

Control:
- Traverse 360 deg continuous
- Elevation -20 to +60 deg
Weight 170 kg without weapon and ammunition
Height 620 mm
Power Supply 24 V DC

 

[bengalraider]

@BR here is technical specifications of the remote gun control station

thanks i may have been wrong anyhow just asking how much do the weapon and ammo weigh?

 

[Sridhar]

On another note, and speaking of guns, I've always been curious as to the Mag 7.62 mm Tk715 machine gun on the Arjun? Why is it not remotely-operated? The crew has to bl@@dy come out to be able to use the machine gun on the turret, exposing themselves to enemy fire. Does anybody know if a remotely-operated gun-station is being developed?

The same blog has a answer from a anonymous user

3. Remotely Operated Gun Station - I though all tanks had co-axial machine guns. So in those rarest of rare cases when a tank has to engage infantry shooting bullets at it, it can just use the co-axial MG. Then again this is such a ridiculous scenario that it doesnt merit any attention. Infantry shooting AKs at a tank? What next? the T-90 has whirling swords to cut off horses legs?! If infantry is swarming your tank, you should be thinking about incoming AT missiles than AK rounds.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6050542&postID=73869221680705503&isPopup=true

 

[gogbot]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't be so naive.

Infantry carry more than Assault rifle.

Any explosive or ant-tank ordnance they have poses a serious threat.

even small explosive can break the threads of the tank.

Essentially rendering it s sitting duck.

today's modern tank always carry's a wide range of sensory equipment , Infantry can damage said sensors, essentially inducing battle field blindness.

If infantry is spotted tank commanders should be able to dispatch with them swiftly and efficiently.
The main gun is not effective as such.

A MG or AA gun can easily suppress the area with bullets defeating or suppressing the targets.

Of course the remote AA gun can also be used to take down UAV and Helicopters.

 

[RPK]

http://www.subcontinentaldef.net/2010/03/india-to-develop-futuristic-tank-based.html

India to develop a futuristic tank based on Arjun


India is set to develop a futuristic battle tank that will be hardly able to detect by enemy radar and Indian developers are believed to have come up with a revolutionary 'honey comb' design for the NERA (Non-explosive and non-Energetic Reactive Armour) Armour and, according to sources, it is said to be performing 'perfectly'.

NERA is a reactive armour which works like any explosive reactive armour but with the crucial difference being the using of energy in form of a charge instead of explosives. and the report for the futuristic tank is as follows from "thaindian.com"


"The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) will be developing around 12 futuristic systems in five years for incorporation into India’s first indigenously built Arjun main battle tank (MBT), an official said here Wednesday.”The futuristic technology systems include automatic target tracking, defensive aids, laser warning, tank simulator systems. We are looking at developing robotic vehicles that would work on tele-link,” R. Jayakumar, associate director of the DRDO’s Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE), told reporters.
The organisation also plans to automate the tracking of targets.

“With the firing and mobility powers of the tank being satisfactory, the focus is now on making the vehicle invisible to the enemy through development of detection avoidance and laser warning systems,” said Jayakumar.

One of the labs under the DRDO, CVRDE is also in the process of developing tank simulators similar to flight simulators.

“After undergoing simulator training, a soldier can comfortably operate the vehicle,” said Jayakumar.

When asked about the status of the Indian Army’s order for 124 Arjun tanks, CVRDE director S. Sundaresh said: “The order will be completed this year. We are confident of getting more orders, which would enable us to have more local component content in the battle machine.”

Presently, the local content is around 50 percent. The engine and power train has been imported from Germany.

“We plan to source engines from Cummins India for future orders. If more orders come by, we can reduce the imported content to 25 percent,” Sundaresh added.

The research organisation has transferred the technology to the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi town.

“More than 10,000 drawings running into around 2,000 pages have been passed on to the vehicle manufacturer,” Sundaresh said.

Asked about the delays in developing the tank, officials said the army froze its specifications only in November 1985.

“The tank was unveiled in 1995. It takes at least 10 years for any country to develop a battle tank from the scratch. The army put the pre-production tanks (15 units) to rigorous tests totalling more than 70,000 km and fired over 7,000 rounds. No other tank would have undergone such tests,” said Jayakumar.

Meanwhile to commemorate the DRDO’s golden jubilee, five of its labs - CVRDE, Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, Ahmednagar; Research and Development Establishment (Engineers), Dighi; Snow and Avalanche Study Establishment, Manali; and Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics, Bangalore - will hold a two day exhibition here starting Feb 28."

 

[gogbot]

Asked about the delays in developing the tank, officials said the army froze its specifications only in November 1985.

I thought the specs were always changing, and that lead to the delay as well as the creation of modern tank due to constantly updated requirements

 

[Sridhar]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Don't be so naive.

Infantry carry more than Assault rifle.

Any explosive or ant-tank ordnance they have poses a serious threat.

even small explosive can break the threads of the tank.

Essentially rendering it s sitting duck.

today's modern tank always carry's a wide range of sensory equipment , Infantry can damage said sensors, essentially inducing battle field blindness.

If infantry is spotted tank commanders should be able to dispatch with them swiftly and efficiently.
The main gun is not effective as such.

A MG or AA gun can easily suppress the area with bullets defeating or suppressing the targets.

Of course the remote AA gun can also be used to take down UAV and Helicopters.

So you conclude that Arjun will be a sitting duck against infantry as it has no Automatic machine gun.

 

[gogbot]

So you conclude that Arjun will be a sitting duck against infantry as it has no Automatic machine gun.

I fully acknowledge this as one of the week points of the current Arjun,

Well it has Machine Gun or an AA gun , so its operations at infantry suppression is as good as any tank of the 90's era design .

But its not ideal, A remote operated MG or AA system is obviously more preferable.

To operate the machine gun as is now, some one has to go outside and mount the turret. That is not ideal in a majority of situations.

If an automated system is in place, some one can operate the turret constantly, with less harm to themselves.

We have automated systems and its only a matter of time they get installed. but until them we have an issue that should be addressed.

 

[anoop_mig25]

I fully acknowledge this as one of the week points of the current Arjun,

Well it has Machine Gun or an AA gun , so its operations at infantry suppression is as good as any tank of the 90's era design .

But its not ideal, A remote operated MG or AA system is obviously more preferable.

To operate the machine gun as is now, some one has to go outside and mount the turret. That is not ideal in a majority of situations.

If an automated system is in place, some one can operate the turret constantly, with less harm to themselves.

We have automated systems and its only a matter of time they get installed. but until them we have an issue that should be addressed.

but i yhink an automated machine gun can be installed on ajrun easily. hope i am not wrong

 

[anoop_mig25]

http://www.subcontinentaldef.net/2010/03/india-to-develop-futuristic-tank-based.html

India to develop a futuristic tank based on Arjun


India is set to develop a futuristic battle tank that will be hardly able to detect by enemy radar and Indian developers are believed to have come up with a revolutionary 'honey comb' design for the NERA (Non-explosive and non-Energetic Reactive Armour) Armour and, according to sources, it is said to be performing 'perfectly'.

NERA is a reactive armour which works like any explosive reactive armour but with the crucial difference being the using of energy in form of a charge instead of explosives. and the report for the futuristic tank is as follows from "thaindian.com"


"The Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) will be developing around 12 futuristic systems in five years for incorporation into India’s first indigenously built Arjun main battle tank (MBT), an official said here Wednesday.”The futuristic technology systems include automatic target tracking, defensive aids, laser warning, tank simulator systems. We are looking at developing robotic vehicles that would work on tele-link,” R. Jayakumar, associate director of the DRDO’s Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE), told reporters.
The organisation also plans to automate the tracking of targets.

“With the firing and mobility powers of the tank being satisfactory, the focus is now on making the vehicle invisible to the enemy through development of detection avoidance and laser warning systems,” said Jayakumar.

One of the labs under the DRDO, CVRDE is also in the process of developing tank simulators similar to flight simulators.

“After undergoing simulator training, a soldier can comfortably operate the vehicle,” said Jayakumar.

When asked about the status of the Indian Army’s order for 124 Arjun tanks, CVRDE director S. Sundaresh said: “The order will be completed this year. We are confident of getting more orders, which would enable us to have more local component content in the battle machine.”

Presently, the local content is around 50 percent. The engine and power train has been imported from Germany.

“We plan to source engines from Cummins India for future orders. If more orders come by, we can reduce the imported content to 25 percent,” Sundaresh added.

The research organisation has transferred the technology to the Heavy Vehicles Factory in Avadi town.

“More than 10,000 drawings running into around 2,000 pages have been passed on to the vehicle manufacturer,” Sundaresh said.

Asked about the delays in developing the tank, officials said the army froze its specifications only in November 1985.

“The tank was unveiled in 1995. It takes at least 10 years for any country to develop a battle tank from the scratch. The army put the pre-production tanks (15 units) to rigorous tests totalling more than 70,000 km and fired over 7,000 rounds. No other tank would have undergone such tests,” said Jayakumar.

Meanwhile to commemorate the DRDO’s golden jubilee, five of its labs - CVRDE, Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, Ahmednagar; Research and Development Establishment (Engineers), Dighi; Snow and Avalanche Study Establishment, Manali; and Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics, Bangalore - will hold a two day exhibition here starting Feb 28."

it is good that drdo and other are developing "futuristic battle tank that will be hardly able to detect by enemy radar" but hope they doesn't follow the path as arjun is facing and hope it would be entirely indian encluding engine

 

[Daredevil]

I fully acknowledge this as one of the week points of the current Arjun,

Well it has Machine Gun or an AA gun , so its operations at infantry suppression is as good as any tank of the 90's era design .

But its not ideal, A remote operated MG or AA system is obviously more preferable.

To operate the machine gun as is now, some one has to go outside and mount the turret. That is not ideal in a majority of situations.

If an automated system is in place, some one can operate the turret constantly, with less harm to themselves.

We have automated systems and its only a matter of time they get installed. but until them we have an issue that should be addressed.

Even Abrams tank doesn't have automatic loading, does it make a sitting duck??. Abrams use manual loader instead of automatic loader because "having a person reload the gun is faster and more reliable. This decision was proven out as the Soviet-era automatic loading system proved troublesome and even dangerous to the tank crew in some cases."

http://sl.theomegaconcern.com/manuals/34-ocs/89-m1a1-abrams-main-battle-tank-manual

 

[sayareakd]

DD we are talking about the remote control weapons station for secondary gun.

 

[nandu]

Indian, US army officials discuss joint training

To coordinate joint training events between the Indian and United States armies, senior US and Indian army officials met at the Western Command headquarters at the Chandimandir cantonment, 15 km from here, Monday.
The four-day 14th annual meeting of the Indo-US Army Executive Steering Group (ESG) will conclude March 26.
The 14-member US delegation is led by Lt. Gen. Benjamin Randy Mixon, Commanding General of the US Army-Pacific.
ESG meetings between both countries are held at venues alternating between India and the US to coordinate various joint training events between the two armies.
Gen Mixon met Western Army Commander Lt. Gen. Shankar Ranjan Ghosh and interacted on various aspects of common interest.
The US team met their Indian counterparts led by Lt. Gen. A.S. Sekhon, Director General Military Operations (DGMO).
The ESG reviewed the progress made in Indo-US military cooperation through events in 2009 and reached an agreement on the training cooperation events to be conducted in 2010.

http://www.prokerala.com

 

[Chota]

Arjun Meets Performance Objectives, Team Waits For Army's Report

Is this the Arjun vs T90 trial or another AUCRT that IA seems to do every year? And who is the "Team" here..DRDO?

 

[gogbot]

Even Abrams tank doesn't have automatic loading, does it make a sitting duck??. Abrams use manual loader instead of automatic loader because "having a person reload the gun is faster and more reliable. This decision was proven out as the Soviet-era automatic loading system proved troublesome and even dangerous to the tank crew in some cases."

http://sl.theomegaconcern.com/manuals/34-ocs/89-m1a1-abrams-main-battle-tank-manual

Please read my whole post.

I was referring to the lack of remote operated machine guns. in the Arjun.

Not automatic loading.

 

[sayareakd]

@gogbot, here is another candidate for the remotely operated weapons station, this one is the latest offering from DRDO it is called GMR vehicle.


you can find more info on my blog.

http://sayaredefenceworld.blogspot.com/2010/02/drdo-brochures-from-defexpo-2010.html

this vehicle is useful for painting laser at enemy and for clearing of soft targets like the anti tank weapons teams. operator can control the vehicle from ARjun tank. this will be good addition.

 

[enlightened1]

Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90!​

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/arjun-tank-outruns-outguns-russian-t-90/389650/​

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/arjun-tank-outruns-outguns-russian-t-90/389650/http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/arjun-tank-outruns-outguns-russian-t-90/389650/

Ajai Shukla / New Delhi March 25, 2010, 0:18 IST

India’s home-built Arjun tank has emerged a conclusive winner from its showdown with the Russian T-90. A week of comparative trials, conducted by the army at the Mahajan Ranges, near Bikaner in Rajasthan, has ended; the results are still officially secret. But, Business Standard has learned from multiple sources who were involved in the trials that the Arjun tank has outperformed the T-90 on every crucial parameter.

The trial pitted one squadron (14 tanks) of Arjuns against an equal number of T-90s. Each squadron was given three tactical tasks; each involved driving across 50 kilometres of desert terrain and then shooting at a set of targets. Each tank had to fire at least 10 rounds, stationary and on the move, with each hit being carefully logged. In total, each tank drove 150 kilometres and fired between 30-50 rounds. The trials also checked the tanks’ ability to drive through a water channel 5-6 feet deep.

The Arjun tanks, the observers all agreed, performed superbly. Whether driving cross-country over rugged sand-dunes; detecting, observing and quickly engaging targets; or accurately hitting targets, both stationery and moving, with pinpoint gunnery; the Arjun demonstrated a clear superiority over the vaunted T-90.

“The Arjun could have performed even better, had it been operated by experienced crewmen”, says an officer who has worked on the Arjun. “As the army’s tank regiments gather experience on the Arjun, they will learn to exploit its capabilities.” With the trial report still being compiled — it is expected to reach Army Headquarters after a fortnight — neither the army, nor the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), which developed the Arjun tank in Chennai at the Central Vehicles R&D Establishment (CVRDE), are willing to comment officially about the trials.

The importance of this comparative trial can be gauged from a list of those who attended. Witnessing the Arjun in action were most of the army’s senior tank generals, including the Director General of Mechanised Forces, Lt Gen D Bhardwaj; strike corps commander, Lt Gen Anil Chait; Army Commander South, Lt Gen Pradeep Khanna; and Deputy Chief of the Army Staff, Lt Gen JP Singh. The Director General of Military Operations, Lt Gen AS Sekhon also attended the trials.

Over the last four months, the army had systematically signalled that it did not want to buy more Arjuns. The message from senior officers was — 124 Arjun tanks have been bought already; no more would be ordered for the army’s fleet of 4000 tanks. The comparative trial, or so went the message, was merely to evaluate what operational role could be given to the army’s handful of Arjuns.

“The senior officers who attended the trials were taken aback by the Arjun’s strong performance,” an officer who was present through the trials frankly stated. “But they were also pleased that the Arjun had finally come of age.”

The army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), which has bitterly opposed buying more Arjuns, will now find it difficult to sustain that opposition. In keeping out the Arjun, the DGMF has opted to retain the already obsolescent T-72 tank in service for another two decades, spending thousands of crores in upgrading its vintage systems.

Now, confronted with the Arjun’s demonstrated capability, the army will face growing pressure to order more Arjuns.

The current order of 124 Arjuns is equipping the army’s 140 Armoured Brigade in Jaisalmer. With that order almost completed, the Arjun production line at the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF) in Avadi, near Chennai, needs more orders urgently. The Rs 50 crore facility can churn out 50 Arjuns annually. That would allow for the addition of close to one Arjun regiment each year (a regiment is authorised 62 tanks).

Tank experts point out that conducting trials only in Mahajan does not square with the army’s assertion that they are evaluating a role for the Arjun. Says Major General HM Singh, who oversaw the Arjun’s development for decades, “If they were evaluating where the Arjun should be deployed, they should have conducted the trials in different types of terrain: desert, semi-desert, plains and riverine. It seems as if the army has already decided to employ the Arjun in the desert.”

The Arjun’s sterling performance in the desert raises another far-reaching question: should the Arjun — with its proven mobility, firepower and armour protection — be restricted to a defensive role or should it equip the army’s strike corps for performing a tank’s most devastating (and glamorous) role: attacking deep into enemy territory during war? Each strike corps has 8-9 tank regiments. If the army recommends the Arjun for a strike role, that would mean an additional order of about 500 Arjuns.

But Business Standard has learned that senior officers are hesitant to induct the Arjun into strike corps. Sources say the Arjun will be kept out of strike formations on the grounds that it is incompatible with other strike corps equipment, e.g. assault bridges that cannot bear the 60-tonne weight of the Arjun.

 

[Anshu Attri]

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/03/arjun-in-present-form-can-never-be-our.html

Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible.

I don't think any results of trials have been as closely guarded as the ones of the Arjun tank in the Thar desert straddling this month and the last, and which ended a little over a week ago. And while the trial team's report will only be submitted in the first week of next month, I had a candid chat with an Army officer who was part of one of the trial teams, and I have to admit he's the first Army tankman I've spoken to so far who's admitted that the Army is as much to blame for the Arjun's "situation" (his word) as DRDO. I can't go into everything he said, because he's requested me not to get into the details until the trial report is in, but here's a gist of what he thinks. Remember, these's aren't facts, but a considered assessment of an officer who was part of the latest trial exercise. A lot of what he said was obvious -- stuff that's been guessed at for years, so I'll put what he said on the table -- make what you will of it. Here's a list of some of the things he shared with me:
"The Arjun performed all its objectives to the full satisfaction of the trial team. I should point out that there was little doubt in our minds at this stage that any major issues would crop up in the platform. The Arjun has reached a level of maturity after several trial rounds, so we were quite confident that we would not encounter any developmental or serious technological issues."
"In its current form and configuration, I think the Army has already made it very clear that the Arjun cannot be the mainstay of the armoured corps. There are several reasons for this, including some intangibles which everyone is aware of, but to be fair to the Army, there is logic to the argument that the Arjun belongs to a certain design and configuration philosophy that the Army does not want in its future tank. These trials have given deep perspective into where the Arjun fits in our battle order."
"Although it is not definite at this stage, and may change in the course of the days ahead, several key decision-makers in the Army have in-principle agreed to the suggestion that the Arjun in its present form can occupy four tank regiments. But there is resistance to this idea from the field. The just concluded trials could support the possibility of a total of four Arjun regiments focused on desert operations."
"The Army should share the blame also for not expediting its requirements for a future main battle tank (FMBT). There have been internal studies for years, but to this day, there is no definite picture of what our FMBT should have, look like or be capable of. So when the people at DRDO blame us for indecision and mid-stream QR changes, they do seem to have a case. As they did with Arjun."
"The Army is quite clear. We need to close one chapter and begin another. Call it Mark-2, call it something else. But things need to move forward. It is unhealthy how things have progressed, though I can say in the last three years there appears to be a much greater empathy between the Army and DRDO about how to take things forward. Let's hope it continues."
"Admittedly, the trials may not go a long way in resurrecting Arjun as some quarters have been led to believe, but it has been a healthy exercise and the Army is in a strong position now to use the Arjun to the best of its abilities. The tank has been given its due."

 

[Daredevil]

Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90!​

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/arjun-tank-outruns-outguns-russian-t-90/389650/​

http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/arjun-tank-outruns-outguns-russian-t-90/389650/http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/arjun-tank-outruns-outguns-russian-t-90/389650/

Excellent News!!. That should shut the mouths of Arjun bashers. Hope there will be more orders for Arjun.