Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

Problem is the design of Arjun itself is outdated... Frankly after Indian Army wanted a lighter version of the Centurion, the Vijayantha tank was hatched. Arjun prototypes were based on that only & the base design is still that!

We need to change the platform ASAP. And NGMBT can't come sooner.

IA first gave a 105 mm bore, 3 men light tank GSQR fr Arjun,

As time went by they changed it 5 times putting it in AMBRAAMs spec class , when Pakistan was looking at trials fr US tanks,

for the past 15 years IA hasnt changed the specs of Arjun , so it remains the same,

No way it can be called "outdated"

A tank which weighs more than T90, but excerts lesser ground pressure per square inch(allowing it to operate in many critical loos se soil area(it crossed the Ravi at Lassian , no T series tank can do that) in Punjab , marked non tankable by IA with russian tanks)

A tank that has blow off panels and safe ammo storage to limit the scope of Ammo cook off , in any seep through explosion in crew compartment,

A tank which has APU to run weapon its systems in silent mode , without main engine running , when stationary.

A tank in which a rookie gunner can hit a suitcase sized target 2 Kms away,

A tank that has state of the art pneumatic suspension leading to best on the run firing accuracy in IA

can do full snorkel fording fr twenty minutes , tested to death in most demanding indian terrain spheres fr tens of thousands of kilometers,

A tank which can use the 70 ton standardized Sarvotra bridging system introduced as standard Eng support fr all tank units,

A tank that is transported as standard ODC cargo on indian railways,

is never outdated,

None of any indian army tanks hv such features to operate in coldstart strategy in hunter killer mode.

 

[ersakthivel]

Capability is there inhouse , no doubts over it

1. Slope the frontal turret
2. Remove the gunner sight from current position and place it on top of hull in a armoured box.
3. Add ERA / NERA frontal armour over the fully sloped frontal hull, including top.
4. Integrate the CLGM laser designator ahead of the ERA / NERA blocks , run the cables through the top along a conduit and into the hull through a connector built into the hull. ( If possible integrate the designator into the commanders sight itself , so no need of seperate designator )
6. Position the commanders panaromic sight a little back on the elevated hull so that it has a clear LOS over the gunners sight.
7. Rearrange the internal cable harness and sights etc due to the above changes

Given the availability of CAD / virtual design softwares how hard is it ? Less than 6 months required to make the changes and another 6 months to build the turret with the changes.

If the Israeli gunners sight is incompatible with the changes , just install tonbo gunners sight. Plus point is since they are Indian company drdo can ask tonbo to add the CLGM laser designator into the gunners sight itself. Tonbo is fully capable of doing it .

View attachment 81431

All this can be done in few months,

rising the main sight few inched above to turret top, adds no big weight penalties or significant engineering challenges,


But what is the point, if IA keeps ordering thousands of T90s, with 180 deg opposite specs it gave to Arjun?

There is no point in refining Arjun if Ia is not interested in giving orders,

IA hasnt asked fr moving the gunner's sight till today,'

And placing a few ERA tiles on Mantlet and few areas in its hull, is no deep R&D.

Its just that IA is satisfied in fielding T90s and has no interest in Arjun, only God knows why?

Vast Thar desert expanses are best suited fr desert ferrari Arjun, And it can send a tinge of fear down the spines of Pak generals,

becuase Arjun is unstoppable in these areas with air support .

in a week or two's time it can cut off Sind and karachi port from Pak Punjab

A mighty tank , made a perpetual lab rat by clue less army

 

[ersakthivel]

I will ask one question only

I have a rectangular block of armour placed straight
I have that same rectangular block of armour inclined

View attachment 81459

Thickness of armour at LOS will be more for which ?

View attachment 81460

You said " See here the LOS thickness has been marked & rapidly reduces... "

No it doesn't not .
The thickness increases ( refer my rectangular block example ) , very reason why the Israelis sloped it . I fail to understand why you made this rookie mistake. You went against the laws of physics.

type 10

View attachment 81451

Leclerc

View attachment 81452

Ariete

View attachment 81453

Challenger

View attachment 81454

Abrahm

View attachment 81455

Merkava

View attachment 81456

K2

View attachment 81457


All these tanks have sloped armour in varying degrees .

And what you said regarding sloped armour being WW2 is wrong . Sloped armour is still in fashion what has changed is the implementation depending of the requirements of the designers. It is not smack in the face but more blended depending on the requirements of the designers.

sloped armor plays no role in bouncing "APFDS" rounds and top attack anti tank missiles as far as I know.

 

[Bleh]

@ersakthivel why the fuck do you keep quoting if you never care to read any replies, nor bother to read & understand what you're quoting in the first place?.. Or can you not process information?

 

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel why the fuck do you keep quoting if you never care to read any replies, nor bother to read & understand what you're quoting in the first place?.. Or can you not process information?

OK. I will keep you on Ignore list from know on.

No worries fr me,

Thanks

 

[ersakthivel]

Keep your filthy "thumbs up" to yourself,I dont need it,

 

[Bleh]

Keep your filthy "thumbs up" to yourself,I dont need it,

Guess what. I don't care.

Anyways, I'd already explained the reasoning behind everything I've said. Your posts show that you didn't bother to read any of them them, or didn't understand anything inspite of that... so there's no point wasting my time.

You go on coming every few days & re-type random info tidbits everyone already knows.

 

[rohit b3]

IA first gave a 105 mm bore, 3 men light tank GSQR fr Arjun,

As time went by they changed it 5 times putting it in AMBRAAMs spec class , when Pakistan was looking at trials fr US tanks,

for the past 15 years IA hasnt changed the specs of Arjun , so it remains the same,

No way it can be called "outdated"

A tank which weighs more than T90, but excerts lesser ground pressure per square inch(allowing it to operate in many critical loos se soil area(it crossed the Ravi at Lassian , no T series tank can do that) in Punjab , marked non tankable by IA with russian tanks)

A tank that has blow off panels and safe ammo storage to limit the scope of Ammo cook off , in any seep through explosion in crew compartment,

A tank which has APU to run weapon its systems in silent mode , without main engine running , when stationary.

A tank in which a rookie gunner can hit a suitcase sized target 2 Kms away,

A tank that has state of the art pneumatic suspension leading to best on the run firing accuracy in IA

can do full snorkel fording fr twenty minutes , tested to death in most demanding indian terrain spheres fr tens of thousands of kilometers,

A tank which can use the 70 ton standardized Sarvotra bridging system introduced as standard Eng support fr all tank units,

A tank that is transported as standard ODC cargo on indian railways,

is never outdated,

None of any indian army tanks hv such features to operate in coldstart strategy in hunter killer mode.

Can you clarify on the blow off panels? Is that a major drawback?

 

[Fire and groove]

All this can be done in few months,

rising the main sight few inched above to turret top, adds no big weight penalties or significant engineering challenges,


But what is the point, if IA keeps ordering thousands of T90s, with 180 deg opposite specs it gave to Arjun?

There is no point in refining Arjun if Ia is not interested in giving orders,

IA hasnt asked fr moving the gunner's sight till today,'

And placing a few ERA tiles on Mantlet and few areas in its hull, is no deep R&D.

Its just that IA is satisfied in fielding T90s and has no interest in Arjun, only God knows why?

Vast Thar desert expanses are best suited fr desert ferrari Arjun, And it can send a tinge of fear down the spines of Pak generals,

becuase Arjun is unstoppable in these areas with air support .

in a week or two's time it can cut off Sind and karachi port from Pak Punjab

A mighty tank , made a perpetual lab rat by clue less army

Or maybe because after thirty years of time and money spent the results were simply too pointless to keep funding. At the end of the day the Arjun still has a rifled gun. You can attach as many sensors and features as you want, but if you're still using a shitty rifled gun it doesn't matter. That alone is enough to put off most militaries from acquiring a tank, in the end if you're tank can't at the very least kill reliably then it's practically useless. Powdering shit with sugar isn't gonna make it any better.

 

[Lost user]

Or maybe because after thirty years of time and money spent the results were simply too pointless to keep funding. At the end of the day the Arjun still has a rifled gun. You can attach as many sensors and features as you want, but if you're still using a shitty rifled gun it doesn't matter. That alone is enough to put off most militaries from acquiring a tank, in the end if you're tank can't at the very least kill reliably then it's practically useless. Powdering shit with sugar isn't gonna make it any better.

Arjun is more accurate than the T-90 and APFSDS has dop of 500 mm.. similar to what Indian T-90S use.. So, you say T-90s is a better killer than Arjun?

 

[Bleh]

Or maybe because after thirty years of time and money spent the results were simply too pointless to keep funding. At the end of the day the Arjun still has a rifled gun. You can attach as many sensors and features as you want, but if you're still using a shitty rifled gun it doesn't matter. That alone is enough to put off most militaries from acquiring a tank, in the end if you're tank can't at the very least kill reliably then it's practically useless. Powdering shit with sugar isn't gonna make it any better.

Apparently the rifled gun problem can be solved to a degree by use of braces... But we don't have the metallurgy tech to make guns that can take higher chamber pressure, to generate enough acceleration to heavier penetrators (we can't make long-rods either).
This problem is with all India-made tanks, Paki ones too... & a lot of the chink ones.

Presently are just putting makeup on a pig & since retards are jacking off to it.

Arjun is more accurate than the T-90 and APFSDS has dop of 500 mm.. similar to what Indian T-90S use.. So, you say T-90s is a better killer than Arjun?

How'd you come to that conclusion from that?.. Where was such a thing implied?

If Arjun is a pig with makeup, T-72/90 are rabied-dogs without makeup!

 

[Lost user]

@Bleh .. Regarding Armata and weak turret armour. Russian agent Red effect, is of the opinion that, it does not really matter as the turret devoid of its embellishments has a much smaller cross section than other tanks, so is difficult to hit. And any APFSDS hit to any tanks turret will make the gun inoperable.. so, Armata is OK..
So, without taking APS into account, rumor has it that even 30 mm rounds and Recoiless rifle rounds could take out Armata turret.. Abrams for example would not face this problem.. How true is the issue of vulnerability of Armata turret?

 

[Bleh]

@Bleh .. Regarding Armata and weak turret armour. Russian agent Red effect, is of the opinion that, it does not really matter as the turret devoid of its embellishments has a much smaller cross section than other tanks, so is difficult to hit. And any APFSDS hit to any tanks turret will make the gun inoperable.. so, Armata is OK..
So, without taking APS into account, rumor has it that even 30 mm rounds and Recoiless rifle rounds could take out Armata turret.. Abrams for example would not face this problem.. How true is the issue of vulnerability of Armata turret?

There's nothing small about Armata's turret nor hull. It's a fucking huge turret, higher than Arjun... it wouldn't matter if it were to modern ATGM & FCS. And without armour any hit will render it useless. Even the Russians aren't fielding it, like they atleast tried with the Su-57.

Anyways enough with this offtopic!

 

[rone]

I think in next India Pakistan land war there will be less than 25% chance of tank to tank battle, because
1: both side increasing their anti armor and close air support divisions with more modern equipments
2: technology break through in gen 2 and 3 atgms
3: ucav and combat helix
4: modern network based war tactics pushing tank based divisions to lateral pivot or section holding divisions

These are my opions may not be praticaly true may be still we may filed w2 tank on tank tatics

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

I think the Russian's made a mistake in 2012. They had developed a T-95 Black Eagle tank, which was based on T-80 hull, with a Leclrec style bustle mounted autoloader and bigger APFDS tahn what cound fit in the carousel of T-72/90s. The risk was less since not only it was an evolutionary design, but also other countries (like France, South korea had gone for similar turrets).
However, that tank was rejected since it is of older heritage, and the Russian's decided to go for a revolutionary unmanned concept of Armata.

Fast forward to 2021, the Armata is an unproven concept, it is very expensive and Russian side are unable to field it not only due to lack of money, but also due to its unmanned turret. Any hit to the turret, will blow it off from the hull and result in an instant mission kill. This is the same reason such concepts were rejected by US Army in the 90s.

The Russian's now want to export the tank to other countries, to recover some of the costs of Armata, while they happily go for upgradaed T-72/80/90 etc. Now no other country (including China) will do a bulk purchase, maximum 100-200 units. Except India, where IA would want to sink any indegeneous tank project at the drop of a hat, to go for mass import of foreign tank.
That is why they have activated their agents in the Indian media, who after every 2-3 weeks start shouting "Armata, Armata".

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

View attachment 81926
There's nothing small about Armata's turret nor hull. It's a fucking huge turret, higher than Arjun... it wouldn't matter if it were to modern ATGM & FCS. And without armour any hit will render it useless. Even the Russians aren't fielding it, like they atleast tried with the Su-57.

Anyways enough with this offtopic!

Isn't the entire bloody point of a tank to be able to take punishment from smaller caliber weapons? Armata makes me LMAO.

 

[Bleh]

I think the Russian's made a mistake in 2012. They had developed a T-95 Black Eagle tank, which was based on T-80 hull, with a Leclrec style bustle mounted autoloader and bigger APFDS tahn what cound fit in the carousel of T-72/90s. The risk was less since not only it was an evolutionary design, but also other countries (like France, South korea had gone for similar turrets).
However, that tank was rejected since it is of older heritage, and the Russian's decided to go for a revolutionary unmanned concept of Armata.

Agreed.

Now this is indeed sad. Could have been upgraded like the rest of M46.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

Agreed.

Now this is sad. Could have been upgraded like the rest of M46.

Why is this sad? These SPG don't have armour like K-9 Vajra does. Its better to order more K-9 Vajra, isn't it?

 

[Bleh]

Why is this sad? These SPG don't have armour like K-9 Vajra does. Its better to order more K-9 Vajra, isn't it?

So?.. It's a mobile gun system, compare to towed guns. And 130 of these are already in service. And the heavy hull of Arjun would easily allow Sarang upgrade. And Vajra won't withstand an air strike either, just frag from counter-arty fire.

Also mostly because it didn't work out for the Bhim. Right now we're in a position to have succeded with that.

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

So?.. It's a mobile gun system. And Vajra won't withstand an air strike either, just frag from counter-arty fire.

Also mostly because it doesn't work out for the Bhim. Right now we're in a position to have succeded with that. View attachment 81945

Dude, you are talking as if arty shrapnel is not going to be lethal for the crew. Ofcourse it won't survive a direct hit from an enemy 155 but mobility + protection form shrapnel >> mobility only.
Yeah, Bhim could have been a better option, but its already too late now. Our SPG requirement is limited. We have a factory manufacturing SPG at full speed right now (even if IP is partly foreign owned) which is about to go idle. Now is not the time to be developing Bhim. Lets quickly roll out all the K-9 Vajra T we'll ever need and ensure that the rest of the artillery is completely indigenous.