Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[shuvo@y2k10]

Take the word of PKS with a pintch of salt. He is known to promote various wild ideas which have been proven wrong before.

For example, last year he said TEDBF/ORCA was an artist imagination and no such project exists or under consideration. Well TEDBF got showcased in Aero India 2021.

Now recently he has conjectured that Arjun mk2 will have an autolader fed 120 mm smoothbore gun with 3 man crew, weighning about 62 tons. The autoloader will be of Leclerc type. Also he has been saying that Arjun will be powered by 1500 hp Cummins engine.

Now to me this seems to be a non feasible idea that CVRDE would pursue.

If the goal is to match the performance of similar 3 man crew tank like Leclerc or K-2 then weight around be kept around 54-55 tons.

Also, if the goal is to present a suitable replacement alternative to T-72 and T-90 to the Army then the weight should be limited to 45-50 tons and gun caliber should be 125 mm. This requirement is already being pusued by Army in the form of FRCV and DRDO in the form of FMBT (having Armata type layout).

Thirdly, when there are reports of developement of indegenous 1500 hp by DRDO, why would they go for Cummins engine, especially since MK2 delivery can oly begin once MK1A delivery is completed by 2025-26 at the earliest.


Hence I don't see any interest that would be generated from the Army, and more importantly DRDO is also not a fool to repeat the same mistake with Arjun again and again of not involving the army in the design and developemnt phase. Most likely, as per old reports, MK2 will weigh around 65 tons and it will be similar 4 man configuration as MK1 and MK1A.
MK2 will get inducted in some numbers to make up the heavy armour requirement as well as to reach the production number of at least 500 (that CVRDE requires to recover the developement cost, and indegenize many of the foreign subsystems). Army is also ensuring that most of new roads and briges under construction, is being made to withstand 70 tons load.

 

[Bleh]

Ok, I think the front design may get pinched a bit, but not overall size reduction of turret... ie, if they're using exact same turret.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Ok, I think the front design may get pinched a bit, but not overall size reduction of turret... ie, if they're using exact same turret.

View attachment 78243

Is he serious?? All of the tanks he mentioned have got smaller turrets as compared to one with a manual loader be it the M1 Abrams, the Challenger or our very own Arjun. Apna hi khayal mein rahta hain ye banda.

 

[ArgonPrime]

PKS may by save misunderstood my question tho... may have meant the turret won't become like T-90, when he says "turret dimensions will remain same".
Because did clearly mention redesign & reengineering of both turret & hull have taken place in Mark2.

View attachment 78214





And for fucksake this turret. We deserve a design that can't be penetrated by everything being shot at it. View attachment 78216

Seriously, I still can't help but wonder why they had to replace this one with that abomination of a turret we've got now. Heck, even the hull appears to be better designed!! And they managed to fix that engine deck issue in the Tank-Ex prototype yet failed to do so in the Arjun and what the hell the top honchos in the armored corps doing?? Why the fuck they didn't bring these shortcomings to notice and instruct the techies to rectify them accordingly??!! Fuck!!

 

[Bleh]

Seriously, I still can't help but wonder why they had to replace this one with that abomination of a turret we've got now. Heck, even the hull appears to be better designed!! And they managed to fix that engine deck issue in the Tank-Ex prototype yet failed to do so in the Arjun and what the hell the top honchos in the armored corps doing?? Why the fuck they didn't bring these shortcomings to notice and instruct the techies to rectify them accordingly??!! Fuck!!

Even the abomination had a better version of it & the hull during the '80s. It makes me suspect the IA may have asked for changes that would allow them to reject it... I wouldn't put it beneath them.

Is he serious?? All of the tanks he mentioned have got smaller turrets as compared to one with a manual loader be it the M1 Abrams, the Challenger or our very own Arjun. Apna hi khayal mein rahta hain ye banda.

No no, he's right. I checked. Leclerc turret is same size as Abrams, Leo2 has smallest NATO turret. Type10 turret is shitfucking huge!.. And K2 turret is very wide too.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Even the abomination had a better version of it & the hull during the '80s. It makes me suspect the IA may have asked for changes that would allow them to reject it... I wouldn't put it beneath them.

View attachment 78245

Yeah, based on their procurement strategy (if we one could call it strategy that is), I doubt they have got the brain cells to come up with such a sinister plan. But if they did do that, then I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[fire starter]

Yeah, based on their procurement strategy (if we one could call it strategy that is), I doubt they have got the brain cells to come up with such a sinister plan. But if they did do that, then I wouldn't be surprised.

Actually it was not pursed bcz they didn't had much time to test it.

 

[ArgonPrime]

Actually it was not pursed bcz they didn't had much time to test it.

Test what??

 

[Bleh]

Test what??

So I'd heard... That turret was offered in mid-90s, after the obese one from the '80s. But IA wanted Arjun tanks operational quickly (which didn't happen & we started by getting a batch of T-90S as stopgap). So they skipped all the testing that would be required for new turret & kept going with the older one.

That's why I think that prototype turret has a chance on Mark2.

 

[ArgonPrime]

So I'd heard... That turret was offered in mid-90s, after the obese one from the '80s. But they wanted the tanks operational quickly (which didn't happen & we started by getting a batch of T-90S as stopgap). So they skipped all the testing that would be required for new turret & kept going with the older one.

That's why a I think that prototype turret has a chance on Mark2.

I see, but damn it they shouldn't have shitcanned this design just because it was new.

 

[Bajirao]

You people taking 'pks' seriously..what a waste of time and energy..

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

One of my theories (most likely could be wrong, so take it with a pintch of salt) :

The sloped turret on one arjun mk1 prototype may be due to the collaboration with Vickers armaments. Vickers was involved with vijayanta mk1 (Vickers mk1) and held serious discussion with DRDO on a possible vijayanta mk 2 version. In addition, in the 80s, Vickers was offering various countries its mk7 prototype (mainly for export and license production). One of the turret (has high similarities with sloped turret of arjun prototype) even was integrated with leopard 2 hull and was offered to various NATO countries.

However, after DRDO decided to go with Krauss Maffei as design consultant, the turret shaped was changed to leoard 2a4 style arrangement. The possible collaboration with Vickers on vijayanta mk 2 and arjun (then known as mbt 90) was dropped.

 

[Maharaj samudragupt]

One of my theories (most likely could be wrong, so take it with a pintch of salt) :

The sloped turret on one arjun mk1 prototype may be due to the collaboration with Vickers armaments. Vickers was involved with vijayanta mk1 (Vickers mk1) and held serious discussion with DRDO on a possible vijayanta mk 2 version. In addition, in the 80s, Vickers was offering various countries its mk7 prototype (mainly for export and license production). One of the turret (has high similarities with sloped turret of arjun prototype) even was integrated with leopard 2 hull and was offered to various NATO countries.

However, after DRDO decided to go with Krauss Maffei as design consultant, the turret shaped was changed to leoard 2a4 style arrangement. The possible collaboration with Vickers on vijayanta mk 2 and arjun (then known as mbt 90) was dropped.

So finally , it can be said that drdo collaborated with Germans ?
I don't comment on technical threads like this but still the design of older turret is very similar to challenger tank of britain .

 

[lcafanboy]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/zeenew...-1a-tanks-to-army-in-chennai-2341724.html/amp

PM Narendra Modi to dedicate 118 Arjun MK-1A tanks to Army in Chennai

 

[fire starter]

Finally.

 

[Bleh]

One of my theories (most likely could be wrong, so take it with a pintch of salt) :

The sloped turret on one arjun mk1 prototype may be due to the collaboration with Vickers armaments. Vickers was involved with vijayanta mk1 (Vickers mk1) and held serious discussion with DRDO on a possible vijayanta mk 2 version. In addition, in the 80s, Vickers was offering various countries its mk7 prototype (mainly for export and license production). One of the turret (has high similarities with sloped turret of arjun prototype) even was integrated with leopard 2 hull and was offered to various NATO countries.

However, after DRDO decided to go with Krauss Maffei as design consultant, the turret shaped was changed to leoard 2a4 style arrangement. The possible collaboration with Vickers on vijayanta mk 2 and arjun (then known as mbt 90) was dropped.

Nah, that turret looks nothing like Vicker Mk7 (which is essentially an early Challenger), although an absolute layman might make that mistake due to similar silhouette... And the German aided turret was hatched before it actually. Arjun alternative turret is much more likely to have been our tailering on our one.

 

[MisraZ]

Can't we upgun Arjun MK1As with something similar to Rheinmetall Rh-130 L/51. Lady is already heavy why not endow it with more powerful assets. She will be stunner on battlefield then

 

[VelociRaptor]

 

[Bleh]

No no, he's right. I checked. Leclerc turret is same size as Abrams, Leo2 has smallest NATO turret. Type10 turret is shitfucking huge!.. And K2 turret is very wide too.

@ArgonPrime K2 with Arbams. Didn't find any Type-10, but it's turret is bigger than both.

Bottomline, PKS is right about the turret autoloader deciding the bustle size. You can pinch & flatten the front tho, so armour layout & weight may improve... or the "chad turret" could work.

 

[akhil mehta]