Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[ersakthivel]

No it's not. You propably havent idea how looks typical main sight.

I know which area is covered by armor and which is not.

The main sight is direct on front TC nose.

Look at the photo posted by DEJAWOLF below, it is directly above his nose.

EMES-15 from leo-2 and similiar in shape will be Arjun main sight.

Gunner is silgty UNDER main sight and TC is on front of it in one line: main sight window - thin armour block - vision blosk whit gap under those one line - slopped "orange" FCS part - nose of the TC.

GUNNER not slightly under the sight, in fact he is in the hull. His head is in the hull,

just take a good look at the gunner head rest marked in blue rectangle by Dejawolf.

If we accept your argument that gunner is slightly below the main sight , then his head seat rest must be in the turret..

but actually it is in the hull.

Look at his head rest attached below the height of the Tc's seat under the folded Tc arm guard with a white rod .

hard to understand why you have such a distorted view of the gunner's head height and Tc head height.

Even blind person shoud notice this.

Only a blind person can notice that gunner's head is in the turret slightly below main sight,!!!!!!

A person with two good eyes like me can easily notice that there is more than 500 space between the main bottom' line and gunner head top.

It's completly not relevant on whicht side - right on left. Arjun main sight have layout like EMES-15 in Leo-2 or main sight in Leclerc.

All along you guys have been saying that ARJUN has no design similarities with LEo. However be the lay out of main sight fact is the SIGHT back is covered with roof plate of turret and the white composite armor above the yellow box (which starts at the top of the hull level or very bottom of the turret .)

It is clearly shown in the blue mango still of the yellow dial box.

vision "window" blokc , under it is placed main mehanism whit direct optical channel to the gunner pannel.



No, you are totally, completly wrong:
1. There is no 300mm space above TC cose TC head is pretty close to the turret roof.

See the photo and mark the distance in units of Tc's head, you will clearly see that there is close to 300 mm space including the thickness of turret top plate of ARJUN which covers half the area behind the sight.

2. The main sight (widnow block) is direct on front of the TC nose, while main mehanism whit optic channel is direct on front gunner head. You propably haven't even slight idea how big is main sight in tank and how "hight" is whole main sight block - window box (doghouse) and main mehanism placed under it. And this is main reson of your completly wrong conlusions.
3. "the hose" is direct on hight window blokc (doghouse)


LOL
black hose is conecting Tc sight (placed on right front of it) whit Arjun electrical sytsem. No armour block whit black hose.

Armor block above the black hose, not with black hose.

There is no slopped armour block after main sight - it's complelty vertical in one line: vison block and uder this VERTICALY PLACED is gunner sight.

Then why is the yellow box situated at a slant, I have posted more than 10 photos showing it. and still you are disputing it.

Notice Deja wolf has gone silent above it. because he knows it by now.

This what you are taking as armour is on photo slopped turret roof!

Look at the photo closely the armor slab hangs below the inner roof level , with a white dial about 100 cm height attached to the side of it.

if the armor does not hang from roof, How can you fit dials on the sides of it. Just think.

photo clearly Indicating different levels of height in ARJUN turret's inside roof.

Right behind main mehanism whit optic channel.
You are talking window (doghouse) as whole main sight deep - what is not true. Main sight hight is like doubled hight of gunner sight (block). And this is hight whole main sight - from top of the doghouse (window block) to main mehanism placed under it.


This " Huge armor block above it"is Tc main panoramic sight. There is no armour block behind those small vision block on turret roof.

Jesus -You haven't idea what you are looking for!

take a good look at the photo and read my explanation in the post---4860 above.

 

[ersakthivel]

The armor slab coming down from the roof above the yellow dial box in the top left corner of the picture.

That armor slab is 900 mm from the head of the Tc if we take 200 mm as the head width and considering 4 and a half head width of distance from the Tc's seat back. So that armor wall is (2500mm-(900mm (4 .5 head width)+700mm-main sight cutaway))=900 mm behind the main sight cutaway .

So at that place there is a possible LOS of 900 mm of composite armor.

The gunner compartment model image below also indicates that the yellow dial box is bolted on the slanting inner armor wall.

The only reason for the slant is to compensate for the main sight cutaway to maintain even LOS thickness all along the turret front.Further proof that there is no weakness behind the main sight.

We can notice the slanting armor inner wall in the following picture as well.

An inch away from the left side of the yellow dial box in the picture ,we can clearly see the sharp edge of the separate slanting armor block.

 

[Damian]

You are making fundamental flaw comparing a demonstration of how FCS components look like and where are installed, to real vehicle.

Instead of trying to force your lies on others, be a honest men, and just admitt you were wrong all the time.

Not to mention that even if there would be inclined plate behind this yelow box, it would not change anything, not in any significant way, which is obvious for anyone with common sense.

 

[ersakthivel]

You are making fundamental flaw comparing a demonstration of how FCS components look like and where are installed, to real vehicle

The following picture is from real vehicle , which exactly follows the FCS components look a like demonstration.

AFAIK the purpose of a demonstration is to show the real world arrangement, not to dupe others with bogus claims.

An inch away from the left side of the yellow dial box in the picture top (near the rear shadow of the yellow dial box )

,we can clearly see the sharp edge of the separate slanting armor block.

Instead of trying to force your lies on others, be a honest men, and just admitt you were wrong all the time.

Not to mention that even if there would be inclined plate behind this yelow box, it would not change anything, not in any significant way, which is obvious for anyone with common sense.

Why?

The same arrangement is shown in the picture below as well.

then use your commonsense and fit the slanting armor wall behind the yellow box in a 3D model , present it with dimension, every one will know who is lying.

 

[Damian]

Why should I do it? There is no sloped armor plate behind this yellow box, you can see it on photos, no sloped plate.

 

[ersakthivel]

Why should I do it? There is no sloped armor plate behind this yellow box, you can see it on photos, no sloped plate.

The white inner wal is behind the yellow dial box in all the photos I have posted.
Then what are those bolts behind the yellow box in picture?

 

[Damian]

The white inner wal is behind the yellow dial box in all the photos I have posted.

ANd it is vertical.

Then what are those bolts behind the yellow box in picture?

The bolts are there to hold something... which is obvious...

Why are you making such idiotic questions? It is like talking with a 5 years old child with some mental disease.

 

[ersakthivel]

ANd it is vertical.



The bolts are there to hold something... which is obvious...

Why are you making such idiotic questions? It is like talking with a 5 years old child with some mental disease.

If the wall is vertical how come the yellow box is slanted.

I don't need any reply from you to clarify anything

, and I did not debate with you about this yellow box and you have not posted any 3D model any where.

In this picture the distance between the Yellow dial box above the gunner and the turret front is marked as 1045 mm.

Also the width at the front may be 2850 mm, but at the Tc' seat the turret width is 3100mm and if that width is reflected then correct side armor LOS thickness can be arrived at.

if this distance is corrected as 1500 mm and width as 3100mm as debated here , then everything is alright.

 

[Damian]

Any talk to you is a waste of time, seriously.

 

[militarysta]

The last one time:


components on draw are not in direct scale -it's generall idea

 

[militarysta]

Bigger:

 

[ersakthivel]

Any talk to you is a waste of time, seriously.

Thnks, that finishes the debate about LOS behihd main sight and side armor turret wall thickness

 

[ersakthivel]

Bigger:

If you mark the distance between B and the frontal armor plate over the ARJUN gun mantle plate as 1500 mm the debate is over.

 

[militarysta]

If you mark the distance between B and the frontal armor plate over the ARJUN gun mantle plate as 1500 mm the debate is over.

Find vison block width -it's almoust sure that it's standardet (in width) whit those for Tc and will have the answer.

EDIT:
Dejawolf claims that vision block width is circa 185-200mm
So:
thickness armour block between mains sight and vision block in turret roof is equal to circa 1,7 vison blokc width.
Dejawolf vison blokc width: 185-200mm x 1.7 = 315-340mm thick

Distance between vision block and front plate near gun mantled mask is 6,5 x 185-200mm = 1200mm - 1300mm
Distance between vision block and front of main sight doghouse (front window) is equal to circa 5,5 vision blokc width so 5.5 x 185-200mm = 1010mm - 1100mm

 

[militarysta]

Better version:


As You can see we have in fact three difrent thcikens (three lines).
The most important are lines between vision block and end of main sight - it's thickenss of the armour block placed between main sight and vision block in turret roof.
Thickenss for that place is equal to circa 1.8 vision block width (it's biggest possible value IMHO it's circa 1.5-1.7). Dejawolf claims that vision block width is circa 185-200mm, so we have:
1.8 x 185-200mm = 330-360mm LOS - and this is thickens Arjun armour block placed after main sight but before vision block.

BTW: your needed value

If you mark the distance between B and the frontal armor plate over the ARJUN gun mantle plate as 1500 mm the debate is over.

Is equal to circa 7 vision block width, so 7x 185-200 = 1295-1400mm

 

[militarysta]

Remember those picture?



Take a notice that gunner vision block, so armour backplate after main sight is before those marked on green part of the gun. It's slearly visible. Above those gunner sight vision block is our favorite Arjun roof vision block.


And slight deeper job:

On one picture is visble left (loader) side backlate. It's marked on green. This backplate is obviously BEFORE coaxial MG parts (marked on red), butslighty BEHIND gun mantled mask backplate (marked on light blue).
The point -it's possible to mark those values on picture whit gun only: dotted line A1 is line when is ended (on tank) gunner sight block so above turret roof visoon blokc, and line A2 is line when is ending (in best option) inner Arjun loader side backplate -so end of the main armour.
Becouse line A2 is almoust in half way between line A1 and gun mantled mask backplate is possible to mark it on turret photot - whit some error of coure but it's possible to do it.
What more -we known width of the Arjun vision block - 185-200mm and backplate is ended in almoust 4 lenght of those vision block width.
It's give us between 740 and 800mm LOS for Arjun loader armour front.

 

[ersakthivel]

Find vison block width -it's almoust sure that it's standardet (in width) whit those for Tc and will have the answer.

EDIT:
Dejawolf claims that vision block width is circa 185-200mm
So:
thickness armour block between mains sight and vision block in turret roof is equal to circa 1,7 vison blokc width.
Dejawolf vison blokc width: 185-200mm x 1.7 = 315-340mm thick

Distance between vision block and front plate near gun mantled mask is 6,5 x 185-200mm = 1200mm - 1300mm
Distance between vision block and front of main sight doghouse (front window) is equal to circa 5,5 vision blokc width so 5.5 x 185-200mm = 1010mm - 1100mm

you don't understand what you write,

Look at the picture below. On the photo the horizontal distance between the points you marked as A and C is close to 300 mm.

But on the tank line drawing C is right below A?

How come?

It is this missing 300 plus mm which makes all your claims wrong.

That's why the main gun on the 3D model looks like kid's water pistol ,
.

Don't take your hobby skills too seriously.You are wrong.

If you can not explain this fact, please stop and don't derail the thread.

You could not understand that on the inner wall of ARJUN crew compartment there are steps provided to house even armor thickness through out.

Take a good look at the picture below.You have written pic-3 on the additional armor block behind the main sight.

Now explain what is the dark space(Arjun inner roof) on the right side of the armor block. And why that dark ARJUn inner roof is higher than the white armor cloumn on which you wrote pic-3.

It is on the side of the protruding inner armor block behind the Gunner's day and night Main sight a black cellphone type instrument and and a white rectangular box type blue transparent glass (optical glass) instrument is bolted.

So denying there is no additional armor block behind the main sight to compensate for the 700 mm main sight cut away is seriously wrong.

The reason is the armor block extends inward to add thickness behind the main sight. On the right side of it the frontal armor column's thickness besides the main sight alone is good enough.

take a good look at the picture below.

An inch away from the left side of the yellow dial box in the picture ,we can clearly see the sharp edge of the separate slanting armor block.

In the picture below,

Also the position of the vision block A has no relation to measuring armor thickness behind the Main sight as from the picture posted below, cable from the vision block comes under the roof. So nothing prevents the placement of armor block behind the vision block

 

[ersakthivel]

In the picture below,

Also the position of the vision block A has no relation to measuring armor thickness behind the Main sight as from the picture posted below, cable from the vision block comes under the roof to the left of the yellow box. So nothing prevents the placement of armor block behind the vision block

 

[militarysta]

you don't understand what you write,

Look at the picture below. On the photo the horizontal distance between the points you marked as A and C is close to 300 mm.

But on the tank line drawing C is right below A?

How come?

It is this missing 300 plus mm which makes all your claims wrong.

That's why the main gun on the 3D model looks like kid's water pistol ,
.

Don't take your hobby skills too seriously.You are wrong.

If you can not explain this fact, please stop and don't derail the thread.

You could not understand that on the inner wall of ARJUN crew compartment there are steps provided to house even armor thickness through out.

Ok, again slowly, mayby You will be able to understand:

specially for you I coloured the same important part on photos.

No "steps" on Arjun inner wall
BTW: you are serious sily person - you mistake your imaginery "slopped armour" whit stupid Arjun roof plate (indeed slopped but in horizon not vertical). Look at those electric light (on upper photo turn of, on bottom photo turn on) it's the same electric light. And after slopped ornage FCS box is vision block (on turret roof).

 

[ersakthivel]

PIC-3
The dark space(Arjun inner roof) on the right side of the armor block confirms rest of ARJUN roof top is at higher level confirming the presence of armor block

.
It is on the side of the protruding inner armor block behind the Gunner's day and night Main sight a black cellphone type instrument and and a white rectangular box type blue transparent glass (optical glass) instrument is bolted.

Where is day light?