Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Damian]

I don't know if there is even sense to talk with you, as you are unable to comprehend simple things, for such a long time.

So you don't know any thing about engineering drawing or dimensioning is clear to me now.

Contrary to you I never claimed to be an engineer. You know why? Because I do not lie to people like you do.

What space age electricals, mechanicals and ELECRONICS are located in that cavity behind the TC? When in all other tanks only composite armor is placed in cavities between outer wall and inner wall,

Which bud head will locate electricals mechanicals and and critical electronics in an area that has just 50 mm armor thickness according to your space age physics , and subject them to constant vibration from and shell hits,

That too through out the length of the side turret!!!!!

And where you would place it then? Nowhere? Cables, electric, elecronic, mechanical components needs to be placed somewhere and need to be interconected with eachother. You claim to be engineer and you don't know that? Oh wait, it is obvious, you are not engineer, just a damn troll and a fanboy.

and to be hit at constantly in a war?As you already posted some gibberish like there is too much volume and wasted space in ARJUN ,

Space is wasted due to turret size and how space is used. In Arjun space is wasted mostly over turret race ring.

You can see it here, look where side turret armor plate is placed, and how much turret race ring is visible.



Now Leopard 2, you can see that race ring is exposed only to the rear, while side turret armor completely covers race ring.

SO why should not they place electricals in these huge spaces which are much safer from penetration,

and instead place them on a place which will be constantly bombarded in war the turret side?

So where do you place all of that? On crew faces? Crew, and ammunition also take space inside.

SO in LEO and ABRAMS they will place composite armor in cavities , but when it comes to ARJUn it is going to be electricals,that are going to be placed in the most vulnerable part of the tank.

In Leopard 2 and M1 there are cavities over turret sides for armor, in Arjun such cavities are just like on 3d model made by Dejawolf and on photos only partially protecting turret front sides, not full lenght of side armor.

In our country we call this sort of explanation CHUTPAZ!!

In my country for your behavior and ridiculous arguments, you would already laying on floor without teeth and with something broken, we really do not like trolls, and there are no protection for them.

 

[ersakthivel]

I don't know if there is even sense to talk with you, as you are unable to comprehend simple things, for such a long time.



Contrary to you I never claimed to be an engineer. You know why? Because I do not lie to people like you do.



And where you would place it then? Nowhere? Cables, electric, elecronic, mechanical components needs to be placed somewhere and need to be interconected with eachother. You claim to be engineer and you don't know that? Oh wait, it is obvious, you are not engineer, just a damn troll and a fanboy.



Space is wasted due to turret size and how space is used. In Arjun space is wasted mostly over turret race ring.

You can see it here, look where side turret armor plate is placed, and how much turret race ring is visible.



Now Leopard 2, you can see that race ring is exposed only to the rear, while side turret armor completely covers race ring.



So where do you place all of that? On crew faces? Crew, and ammunition also take space inside.



In Leopard 2 and M1 there are cavities over turret sides for armor, in Arjun such cavities are just like on 3d model made by Dejawolf and on photos only partially protecting turret front sides, not full lenght of side armor.



In my country for your behavior and ridiculous arguments, you would already laying on floor without teeth and with something broken, we really do not like trolls, and there are no protection for them.

the reason there is no space besides the turret ring in LEO and there is some space in ARJUN is ,"ARJUN IS SHORTER AND WIDER THAN LEO".

Even if some one beat you to death you would not get that into your head.

Also where did they position the mechanicals and eletricals and electronics in LEO turret ?

On the side turret or in the crew butt or some where where it is reasonably safe? ,

No design professional would use the space meant for armor on turret to place electricals and mechanicals.

Also get that into your bud head that there is no need for any mechanicals in turret side armor cavity,

How will they access it for regular maintanance and repairs ? By cutting the wall using a welding torch?

All critical electrical and mechanical and electronics components are placed where they are accessible and serviceable, besides a few connecting cables that too in safe pipes nothing other than composite armor modules are usually placed there in a tank turret.

please clarify with your world war two books and your history professor who said "NEVER BELIEVE ANY THING YOU SEE ON THE NET(may be he would have read some of your post is my opinion)" and answer?

or ask some one who does know something useful about tanks and post.

Since I am an engineer i know better than to trust trust "defense professionals who don't know a shit about perspective or production drawing".

using gutter language is the only way to talk to trolls who fake the word professionals.

 

[Damian]

the reason there is no space besides the turret ring in LEO and there is some space in ARJUN is ,"ARJUN IS SHORTER AND WIDER THAN LEO".
Even if some one beat you to death you would not get that into your head.

Nope, it is because turret is much wider but the armor placement is not the same. Leopard 2 have more balanced armor placement, Arjun have allmost whole composite armor at front.

Also where did they position the mechanicals and eletricals and electronics in LEO turret ?

Everywhere space permitted, try to find some schematics of FCS components, servomechanism etc. These are placed all over the place though most of FCS and hydraulic pump is placed in turret bustle.

 

[ersakthivel]

Nope, it is because turret is much wider but the armor placement is not the same. Leopard 2 have more balanced armor placement, Arjun have allmost whole composite armor at front.



Everywhere space permitted, try to find some schematics of FCS components, servomechanism etc. These are placed all over the place though most of FCS and hydraulic pump is placed in turret bustle.

How do they access it for maintanenece?


Only composite composite armor is placed on the turret side in any MBT,which are

all 4 member heavy tanks weighing 60 tons and more ,

like --- LEO or ABRAMS or ARJUN case is the same,

In a big tank like ARJUN there is more space to place all the electricals and electronics in many places.

what is placed in ARJUN on the turret side ,

is the same stuff that is placed in LEo in the same place,

You yourself has posted that ARJUN is modeled on LEO a few posts before,

remember it after continuously refusing it when I said the same in my posts months before .


So if they place composite armor modules on LEO and ABRAMS in turret side cavity ,

the same thing would have been placed in ARJUN as they were,

as it follows the same philosophy of western MBTs like LEo on which it was modeled,

all 4 member heavy tanks weighing 60 tons and more ,

not subscribing to the truncated turret geometry for protection as the T-90 does.

 

[Damian]

How do they access it for maintanenece?

Through hatches or access points. To service some components you need to take turret off the hull. Normal for all tanks.

composite armor is placed on the turret side in any MBT--- LEO or LEclerc or ARJUN case is the same,

Arjun have only partially protected turret by composite armor, just like it is visible on photos and 3d models. It is because composite armor needs a lot of space to be placed.

In a big tank like ARJUN there is more space to place all the electricals and electronics in many places.

As far as I can say from photos and videos, ergonomics are awfull, lot of cables everywhere.

what is placed in ARJUn is the same stuff that is placed in LEo in the same place, You yourself has bluffed that ARJUN is modeled on LEO a few posts before, remember it.

1) No, it is not placed in the same place.
2) Being modelled or inspired by one design, don't make both designs the same... unless, unless you claim that DRDO just made illegal copy, is it?

BTW start to write normally, are unable to write normally? Without these strange big and small letters all the time?

 

[ersakthivel]

Through hatches or access points. To service some components you need to take turret off the hull. Normal for all tanks.



Arjun have only partially protected turret by composite armor, just like it is visible on photos and 3d models. It is because composite armor needs a lot of space to be placed.



As far as I can say from photos and videos, ergonomics are awfull, lot of cables everywhere.



1) No, it is not placed in the same place.
2) Being modelled or inspired by one design, don't make both designs the same... unless, unless you claim that DRDO just made illegal copy, is it?

BTW start to write normally, are unable to write normally? Without these strange big and small letters all the time? Is it so difficult to write like a human being not an ape?

Since all those cables and wires in the front portion of the tank is exposed what is the need to hide them behind the Tc in a cavity in sides?

Then why did you wrote DRDO in big letters?

When you know that composite armor is to be placed in side turret cavity,

why are you doubting that DRDO does not knows that?

Don't you think that they would follow the same universal practice of following the western MBTs and place the composite armor in cavities ,

Mind you T-72s and t-90s are license produced in India for decades,

So they are not kinder garden kids doing some clay model MBTs.

 

[Damian]

Since all those cables and wires in the front portion of the tank is exposed what is the need to hide them behind the Tc in a cavity in sides?

Because somer parts, like hydraulic pump might behind a bulkhead, so to connect them part of cables might be hidden in small cavity conecting components behind bulkhead with rest of tank. Seriously this is obvious and you still ask, you know that right

Then why did you wrote DRDO in big letters?

Because DRDO is acronym, while Arjun is a normal name, there is no nececity to wrote this like you do "ARJun", same goes for Leopard 2 or Abrams, these are names, and should be written in normal manner.

When you know that composite armor is to be placed in side turret cavity,

why are you doubting that DRDO does not knows that?

And where did I said that DRDO engineers does not know? I said that most possible reason why turret sides are not protected is weight efficency of Kanchan armor that might be lower than in terms of other, more advanced composite armors. And there is nothing to be shame to be, India is new in composite armors designing, thus it might take time before they will get the right weight efficency.

In fact it was perhaps decided to prioritize first work on getting required protection levels and later work on weight efficency by experimenting with materials and overall armor design.

If we compare the weight and armor placement in Arjun and for example NATO MBT's, their weight is comparable, but Arjun have overall less surface protected by composite armor, which supports my theory about weight efficency.

And this is not argument against India or DRDO, it is just logic.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

arjun has kanchan composite armour on front as well as turret side. frontal portion of the turret is wider and has about 3.2m diameter to give it a frontal 60% protection.but the turret side is normal about 2.7-2.8m wide(diameter) just like western mbts like leo and abrams and arjun has kanchan armour even in the turret side all the way up to turret back(i can guarantee that as i watched this tank very closely in early january as part of ISC).this type of asymetrical turret geometry stems from the fact that arjun in most cases will be engaged from front(as most western mbt).but recent experiences in iraq and afghanistan has prompted western tank designers to increase side armour protection(though not to the level of frontal armour).arjun mk2 has considerably higher turret side protection than mk1(even in mk1 it is not less as suggested by some) and additional full frontal protection in form of heavy era.also one thing is important in this case that the kanchan armour has undergone vast changes in compostion which had made it very very strong(kanchan has more volume than standard composite armour of same weight and works by the same principal as chobham).this has enabled it to withstand point blank range hit from t-72 main gun,t-90 main gun,rpg.milan,105mm RCl gun.i doubt even the very powerful arjun main gun can penetrate the kanchan from point blank.

 

[Damian]

Any reasonable discussion is just pointless...

 

[Twinblade]

Seriously, stop being a troll and start using your brain... if you have any.

You should have hit the ignore button a long time ago

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I have edited both of your post, Now it looks ok..

 

[ersakthivel]

Any reasonable discussion is just pointless...

You should not use gutter language in a REASONABLE DISCUSSION,

Don't expect me to follow CHRIST's advice of showing the other cheek.

I reply in the same kind of language you use.

 

[ersakthivel]

You should have hit the ignore button a long time ago

The last time you disappeared from this forum was ,

when I asked you to post the chart for knowing the compliance of GRippen ,

in following whitcombs rule in cross sectiona l plane in the now closed ADA tejas thread,

when you posted in other forums that TEJAS was unable to break the sound barrier in sea level,

by not following the WHIT comb's rule

. you never posted. Any way welcome back.

 

[ersakthivel]

Because somer parts, like hydraulic pump might behind a bulkhead, so to connect them part of cables might be hidden in small cavity conecting components behind bulkhead with rest of tank. Seriously this is obvious and you still ask, you know that right


Because DRDO is acronym, while Arjun is a normal name, there is no nececity to wrote this like you do "ARJun", same goes for Leopard 2 or Abrams, these are names, and should be written in normal manner.



And where did I said that DRDO engineers does not know? I said that most possible reason why turret sides are not protected is weight efficency of Kanchan armor that might be lower than in terms of other, more advanced composite armors. And there is nothing to be shame to be, India is new in composite armors designing, thus it might take time before they will get the right weight efficency.

In fact it was perhaps decided to prioritize first work on getting required protection levels and later work on weight efficency by experimenting with materials and overall armor design.

If we compare the weight and armor placement in Arjun and for example NATO MBT's, their weight is comparable, but Arjun have overall less surface protected by composite armor, which supports my theory about weight efficency.

And this is not argument against India or DRDO, it is just logic.

Who told you KANCHAN armor is weight inefficient?

When you use the word logic you should say the source behind the logic of weight inefficiency of KANCHAN armor,

Many members have posted here that Kanchan armor continues to be improved,

So where is the basis for it's weight inefficiency?

 

[ersakthivel]

You are lucky we do not talk in person, seriously, I am nervous men, and you would end in hospital or graveyard after what you do here.

I too can write some stuff like if you are in front of me , i can just give a kick and you will have your balls in your hand, But I am simply lazy to post stuff like that.

It is conclusion from observation of tank design and it's weight compared to other MBT's in the same weight class.

these confirmation and observation were drawn by you according to your own fancy is what I know.

I said, source is vehicle design and characteristics like weight, armor placement.

When you don't know what is the hatch width and what is the turret width , talks like this are hot air.

Improvements might not be focused on weight efficency.



As I said many times, by comparing armor placement and vehicle weight with other designs in the same weight class.

Simply have a nice night 's sleep and have a good day tomorrow.

BYE.

 

[Twinblade]

The last time you disappeared from this forum was... ,

Nope, sorry, I didn't disappear from this forum. You were simply added to the ignore list, on advice from mods, for repetitive misquoting, deliberate misinformation and not backing up your claims with any links, a place where you still belong. Some of us have jobs to do and come here on forums to learn, share and to stay updated on new developments, not to argue on page after page with people carrying preconcieved notions born out of lack of understanding. For whatever reasons, you have plenty of time at your hands, considering the barrage of ill structured, semi coherent, posts you unleash, and an utter disregard for opinions other than yours. Here's some advice for you, lurk more, post less and ask questions when in doubt.

Warm Regards

PS: Do not bother replying to this post, it won't be visible to me anyway.
PPS: You are still misquoting me, but nevermind.

 

[Dejawolf]

Perhaps because I agree with STGN and Dejawolf, I do not need to replicate their work because I agree with them, do you understand humans language and what word "agree" means?

Composite armor is not enclosed there, vehicle electric, electronic and mechanical components might be. If you considers that there is composite armor there then... skończ waść, wstydu oszczędź as we say in my country.

as i've said before in previous posts,
it's the rear turret ledge, as can be seen from these pictures

as for the cable, there's one on the loaders side as well, and most likely connects with the smoke grenade launchers,
on the outside.

 

[pmaitra]

Guys, please calm it down. Counter the content of the posts. Make your point, and move on.

 

[sayareakd]

as i've said before in previous posts,
it's the rear turret ledge, as can be seen from these pictures

i am in the picture.

 

[Dejawolf]

found the cable:

and the one on the TC's side: