Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

NSG_Blackcats

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India Army has more than 2400 T-72 tanks. IA is ready to invest millions of US $ for up gradation of these obsolete T-72 tanks but will not accept Arjun.

It is also a fact that 70-80% of T-72 tanks are night blind. Is it about getting lot of commissions from the Russians??
 

Rahul Singh

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Present CAS is a cheat(anda choor) so will be his team. No hopes till all of them are retired or court-marshaled.
 

p2prada

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India Army has more than 2400 T-72 tanks. IA is ready to invest millions of US $ for up gradation of these obsolete T-72 tanks but will not accept Arjun.

It is also a fact that 70-80% of T-72 tanks are night blind. Is it about getting lot of commissions from the Russians??
If you read a few posts above I have given reasons why the Arjun will not fit the IA's requirements.
 

sayareakd

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Stupid journalists, these pic should nt have been posted at all, this give away our secrets............

Crew of Markava tank paid with their lives, when the pics of Markava were posted on website which allowed the Palestinian and hisbulla fighters to study its weekness.........

These journalist some times forget what to public or release and what not............

I remember Shiv arror posted the pic showing exact position where the amo is stored in arjun tank......
 

bengalraider

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Army to spend billions on outdated T-72 tanks
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi February 03, 2010, 23:48 IST
Foreign upgrade for T-72 chosen over indigenous Arjun tank.


The Indian Army chief’s concern that India’s tank fleet was largely incapable of fighting at night highlighted only a part of the problem with the Russian T-72, the army’s main tank. In fact, the T-72 is in far worse shape than General Deepak Kapoor let on last month.

Another signal of the T-72’s obsolescence was its recent withdrawal, by the army’s Directorate General of Mechanised Forces (DGMF), from next month’s comparative trials with the indigenous Arjun tank. An embarrassed DGMF has realised that, without major refurbishing, the T-72 was not in the Arjun’s class.

But in the army’s long-term planning, the T-72 — which the more advanced T-90 will replace only gradually — will continue to equip almost half of the army’s 59 tank regiments as far in the future as 2022.

Business Standard has accessed a sheaf of technical reports and funding requests that actually quantify the state of the T-72. Exactly 32 years have passed since the first T-72s arrived in India; army guidelines stipulate 32 years as the service life of a tank. The earliest tanks from the army’s 2,418-strong T-72 inventory should have already been retired, making way for a more modern tank, such as the T-90 or the Arjun.

Instead, the DGMF — longstanding advocates of Russian equipment — plans to spend Rs 5 crore per T-72, hoping to add another 15-20 years to that tank’s service life by replacing crucial systems, such as its fire control system, main engine and night vision devices.

The military’s Annual Acquisition Plan for 2008-2010 (AAP 2008-10) lists out the cost of modernising the T-72 fleet as follows:



New 1000-horsepower engines (identical to the T-90 tank) to replace the T-72’s old 780-horsepower engines. The cost of each engine: Rs 3 crore.

Thermal Imaging Fire Control Systems (TIFCS) that will allow the T-72 gunners to observe and fight at night. Each TIFCS will cost Rs 1.4 crore.

Thermal Imaging (TI) sights to provide T-72 tank commanders with night vision. Each TI sight costs Rs 0.4 crore.

An auxillary power unit (APU) to generate power for the tank’s electrical systems. Each APU will cost Rs 0.16 crore.
The Rs 5-crore cost of upgrading each T-72 knocks out the argument that the T-72 — at Rs 9 crore apiece — is value-for-money. Retrofitting upgraded systems will escalate the cost of the T-72 to Rs 14 crore. In contrast, a new Arjun, with a 1,500 horsepower engine, state-of-the-art integrated electronics, and the indigenous, widely praised Kanchan armour, can be had for a marginally more expensive Rs 16.8 crore.


“It is folly to stick with Russian tanks despite having developed the Arjun, and the design capability to continuously improve it?” says Lt Gen Ajai Singh, who headed the army’s Directorate of Combat Vehicles before becoming Governor of Assam. “India can tailor the Arjun to our specific requirements and continuously upgrade the tank to keep it state-of-the-art. Why upgrade old T-72s? It is time to bring in the Arjun.”

The T-72’s galloping obsolescence is magnified by the MoD’s failure to overhaul tanks on schedule: Some 800 T-72s are years overdue for overhaul. Originally, each T-72 was to be overhauled twice during its service life of 32 years. But as the overhaul agencies — the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi; and 505 Army Base Workshop, Delhi — failed to meet their overhaul targets of 70 and 50 tanks, respectively, the army decided that one overhaul was good enough. And, with even that schedule not implemented, a desperate MoD has approached Indian industry to play a role in overhauling the T-72 fleet.

The total expenditure on the T-72 tank, budgeted for AAP 2008-10, is over Rs 5000 crore. The cost of overhaul has not been accurately determined.
This si getting more and more ridiculous day by day there is no merit in spending 5 Cr to refurbish a T-72 when we have a new tank waiting to take it's place.The T-90 can stay but the arjun should be given it's due after decommissioning the T-72:mad:
 
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Daredevil

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This si getting more and more ridiculous day by day there is no merit in spending 5 Cr to refurbish a T-72 when we have a new tank waiting to take it's place.The T-90 can stay but the arjun should be given it's due after decommissioning the T-72:mad:
I hope Antony will do something about it and push Arjun down the Army's throat. What Army is doing doesn't make sense at all. MoD can give Army more money to replace the logistics system of T-72 with that of Arjun if logistics that big a issue. That way all our money will be well spent and will also get more bang per buck compared to upgraded T-72 which will still fall short of Arjun's capabilities.
 

gb009

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May be the army is acting like this because it wants to replace T72 with T95s. Of-course no one knows when it will come out!
So the army should at least induct another 400 arjuns so that DRDO gets the required encouragement and starts working on Arjun MK2. Don't think such a decision would adversely affect army's plans (if this indeed is the reason). This way hopefully when T95 is out Arjun MK2 will also be out and army can decide among them by a similar comparative trial.
 

Dark_Prince

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Why are they still sticking on to T-72 is not understandable? Arjun will be soon under comparative trials against Russian T-90s, with improved electronics, engine and firing system and one of the best known for its Armor and Maneuverability ....It will no doubt outsmart T-90s....If that comes out as a result of the trials ....Then why spend so much on T-72 ? Why not pump in money for Arjun's Production facilities/Infrastructure for faster production.....!! Sheer wastage of money for selfish gains!!:mad:

or it has something to do with Tank EX Project?
 
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bengalraider

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The arjun will pose serious problem for the IA in terms of tactics and logistics in the onset i will give the IA that; but the powers that be in the IA need to stop and think would they rather not buy atank that can take a direct hit from a T series lookalike and keep rolling or would they like to have a 30+ yr old T-series tank that will at best be on par with it's second cousins the Al-Khalid and the T-80 across the border.
 

neo29

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the army has admitted that 80% of its tanks do not have nigh capability. i have read that arjun tank has night capability. so i think its wise to induct another 250 of them apart from the 124 in order. kanchan armour is one of the best armour any tank has and it gives great advantage.
 

Sridhar

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Tuesday, February 2, 2010

T-90 VS MBT Arjun--First Ever Comparative Trials !


T-90 / MBT Arjun


1. Mobility Summer/winter- Fuel consumption varies/ Summer/winter-Accused of being fuel hungry.

2. Fuel Tank Capacity 1600 liters / 1610 liters.

3. Protection System Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour / Kanchan armour made indigenously by DRDO.

4.
Automotive Performance Can penetrate over 900 mm steel, can engage low-flying air targets and has torsion bar/Hydro pneumatic suspension

5. Maximum Speed. 65 kmph on road and 35kmph cross country/ 75 kmph and 45 kmph cross country.

6. Ability to climb slopes One meter high obstacles/ One meter high obstacles.

7. Weight 46.5 tons./ 60 tonnes.

8. Price Rs 14.5 crore per tank/ Rs 16 crore per tank.

9.
Firing 125mm smooth bore / 120mm rifle-main gun.

10. Crew Three / Four.

11
.Propulsion Liquid cooled V-84MS 618KW 4 Stroke V-12 piston engine 1000 HP / German MTU 838Ka-501 1400 HP engine.

The Indian Army will see its first ever comparative trials between its mainstay Russian T-90 tanks and the indigenous Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun in March this year in the deserts of Rajasthan for medium fording and firing of the weapon systems.


The MBT Arjun's main gun which is the 120mm rifle, 12.7mm NSVT and 7.62mm co-axial gun will be pitted against the T-90's 125mm smooth bore, 12.7mm NSVT and the 7.62mm PKT, besides both tanks undergoing medium fording.

One squadron each of the two tanks, 14 in one squadron, will participate in the trials. The Chennai-based combat vehicle research and development establishment (CVRDE), where the MBT-Arjun is manufactured, had handed over the full fleet of the indigenous tanks to the Indian Army's 43 armoured regiment last year, and currently the regiment has 62 tanks in its inventory, while the remaining 15 tanks are part of the Army's 75 armoured regiment, which is the next regiment to get converted from T-55 to the MBT Arjun , after 43 armoured.

The Bikaner-based 43 armoured regiment is fully geared up for the trials and is readying its 14 tanks for the same.DRDO, meanwhile, is sure of Arjun winning hands down and are positive about it.

People's Post was invited for a test-drive on the MBT Arjun, the tank which participated in this year's Republic Day Parade on January 26, on Rajpath. The smooth 20-minute drive validated the tanks successful auto-transmission system, which is missing in the T-90. The spacious Arjun runs well on auto-gear if the terrain is straight, while in deserts since the speed is less, it is mostly in the first two gears.The driver's cabin, in the front has periscopic prisms, much like the Commander's cabin. There are gears to rotate the turret in eventuality of a war, from inside, while firing.

http://chhindits.blogspot.com/2010/02/t-90-vs-mbt-arjun.html
 

notinlove

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i've heard enough bullshit from respected Mr. ajai shukla , When it comes to tanks i have found him extremely biased, also he delibrately leaves out facts to support his claims .

Lets check out some of the follies and self contradicting statements in his own artcle.

Business Standard has accessed a sheaf of technical reports and funding requests that actually quantify the state of the T-72. Exactly 32 years have passed since the first T-72s arrived in India; army guidelines stipulate 32 years as the service life of a tank. The earliest tanks from the army’s 2,418-strong T-72 inventory should have already been retired, making way for a more modern tank, such as the T-90 or the Arjun.
compare this to this

india, which has decided to resume military aid to Nepal, is likely to supply 50 phased-out tanks at discounted rates.India´s The Telegraph newspaper reported the deal, quoting an unnamed senior Defensgure Ministry official in New Delhi on Tuesday. The report said Nepal has specifically asked whether it can acquire 50 tanks from the Indian Army at discounted rates. These are Ajeya T-72 tanks that are being replaced with the Bhishma T-90 in the armored regiments.
http://www.indian-military.org/news...-50-phased-out-ajeya-t-72-tanks-to-nepal.html
clearly states that the earlier tanks HAVE BEEN phased out , i still don't know why he is ranting about phasing them out.. how can you phase out tanks that are already phased out.i think he should be phased out of business standard. :D

another thing he mentions

Exactly 32 years have passed since the first T-72s arrived in India; army guidelines stipulate 32 years as the service life of a tank.
now check this out

It was then decided to undertake local production of the Russian T-72M1 MBT at Avadi and the first vehicles were completed in 1987 with first vehicles being delivered to the Indian Army the following year.

The first 175 tanks were produced with kits supplied by Russia. This was followed by progressive local manufacture. The eventual aim was to produce as much of the tank as possible in India with the target being 97 per cent. It is understood that this target was not achieved.

Production of the T-72M1 in India was running at about 70 vehicles a year with final vehicles being delivered in March 1994
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product3505.html
This means many of our tanks(70x8=560 is just the domestic production , as well as some might have been bought by the russians directly also, but i don't have any figures to support that so i will leave that part) have an age of 15-22 years. now according to mr. shukla the retirement age of a tank is 32 years.this means we still have 10-17 operational years on them,should we through them in the gutter?just because Mr.shukla doesn't like them?or should we upgrade them to the modern standards? you take the call.
Instead, the DGMF — longstanding advocates of Russian equipment — plans to spend Rs 5 crore per T-72, hoping to add another 15-20 years to that tank’s service life by replacing crucial systems,
Pure Bullshit , as explained we already have 15 years on it.

The Rs 5-crore cost of upgrading each T-72 knocks out the argument that the T-72 — at Rs 9 crore apiece — is value-for-money. Retrofitting upgraded systems will escalate the cost of the T-72 to Rs 14 crore. In contrast, a new Arjun, with a 1,500 horsepower engine, state-of-the-art integrated electronics, and the indigenous, widely praised Kanchan armour, can be had for a marginally more expensive Rs 16.8 crore.
So the t-72 needs to be upgraded to keep it to modern standards but the Arjun is an End all it is so superior that never again a tank will be built that is better than it and hence it will never need an upgrade or better still the DRDO will upgrade it for FREE in the future. now before the Arjunophiles here start let me explain i do think the the arjun is a great tank today .. but i have no guarantee in the future other than this that every defence equipment gets obsolete so will arjun very similarly like the t-72 is getting obsolete today would we not spend money on upgrading it then? where is that cost included in Mr. Shukla's review? or would we throw the arjun inducted today in gutter after 15 years too?
 

NSG_Blackcats

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^^^ I do not understand what is your point?
1. T-72 has obsolete technology compared to the current generation of tanks.
2. T-72 can not fight in night.
3. It does not matter whether T-72 is imported or assembled in India. The technology will remain same.

So why IA want to invest so much to upgrade these T-72 tanks? If I am not wrong IA have more than 2400 T-72

It is like IAF spending millions of US $ for upgradtion of Mirage, instead of going for new Rafael.
 

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