Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Damian]

New Arjun turret on Mk2 have new Armour Module on sides, Which increase weight but these modules cover Arjun sides which were vulnerable before..

Really? Where I can find photos of such vehicle configuration? Because on prototypes I can't observe such modification.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun Side Armour is strengthen..

And one good reason why weight is increased so much..

It's too early to build up such conclusion without a better photos. For me it is nothing more than a storage box for now, if there will be better photo proving otherwise I will agree.

And the weight increase can comes from ERA, for example a very light ERA package the 4S24 in a full kit weights approx 2,5 tons, and it is considered as light non universal, only anti HEAT optimized package with less potential than even older 4S22 Kontakt-5 universal heavy ERA.

I am not making conclusion about this photo, I am very sure, You will have better photos of the tank in future..

Arjun MK-1 is 58 tons, Arjun MK-2 is 67 tons, Almost 9 tons in addition..

The Tank have Heavy ERA which can be not more than 5 tons at most, And there are no Major addon to increase the weight unless the suspected modules as i indicated..

And how sure You are that weight increase do not come from for example new internal mechanical components? You think that stabilization for example do not have it's weight?

Or what if heavier variant of Kanchan armor was installed in turret front armor cavities?

Do not make quick conclusions without a proper data.

You will have better pictures in future..

Perhaps maybe i will take some hires by myself..

Good, hope to have them as soon as possible.

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Really? Where I can find photos of such vehicle configuration? Because on prototypes I can't observe such modification.

Its was posted here only..

Better picture would give better analysis for you and others..

 

[Damian]

Kunal, this is storage box most likely, not armor module... don't get too excited.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

They are absolutely not storage box, Been on this tank..

I know what i see..

But you will have to wait for better photos, Will be there..

Kunal, this is storage box most likely, not armor module... don't get too excited.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[bhramos]

New Pic of Arjun in Trails

 

[The Fox]

Do Arjun have blow open cap for the artillery shell storage or is it stored in the turret

 

[Damian]

Do Arjun have blow open cap for the artillery shell storage or is it stored in the turret

There is such panel (not cap) over turret bustle ammunition rack, however currently avaiable photos shows that ammunition rack is not isolated, so blow off panel will not help. This is at least for Mk1, Mk2 might be upgraded in this to full ammunition isolation turret bustle.

However much more ammunition is stored in hull, and there ammunition is not effectively isolated, neither there are blow off panels. This is popular scheme for ammunition storage, but obsolete. However 99% tanks use such armor storage configuration, only M1 Abrams series have all ammunition in turret and hull, stored in isolated ammo compartments with blow off panels.

 

[The Fox]

so in a real time say WAR if a shell or ÁTGM hits Arjun and penetrates the armor then the tank is gone or let me put it this way if a shell or a ATGM hits arjun then goodbye Arjun correct.....................

 

[Kunal Biswas]

so in a real time say WAR if a shell or ÁTGM hits Arjun and penetrates the armor then the tank is gone or let me put it this way if a shell or a ATGM hits arjun then goodbye Arjun correct.....................

It depends if the hit occur at ammo storage or gone into ammo storage directly..

The ammo in turret is kept in Steel containers, Arjun use single piece ammo which also enhance survivability compare to T-Series tanks with Auto Loader with Ammo lies in floor 360 degree with charge bag made of plastic - fiber material.

Arjun round in turret..

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Arjun rounds are contained in special containers in hull Specially..

 

[Damian]

The ammo in turret is kept in Steel containers, Arjun use single piece ammo which also enhance survivability compare to T-Series tanks with Auto Loader with Ammo lies in floor with charge bag made of plastic - fiber material.

Arjun also use semicombustible cases for ammunition, these are made from cellulose not plastic. So one spark, hot fragment etc, and ammo starts to burn like hell.

Arjun rounds are contained in special containers in hull Specially..

These containers won't help much in reality. Israelis use similiar method and this is effect of direct hit of shaped charge warhead in to vehicle ammo storage.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Arjun also use semicombustible cases for ammunition, these are made from cellulose not plastic. So one spark, hot fragment etc, and ammo starts to burn like hell.

Single Piece ammo, And yes semicombustible cases for ammunition with steel obturating cup..
Though they are kept in close container in one particular place..

Same procedure..

These containers won't help much in reality. Israelis use similiar method and this is effect of direct hit of shaped charge warhead in to vehicle ammo storage.]

There is no escape if hits ammo storage at turret directly..

Also it seems these old merkavas dont had automatic fire extinguisher..

 

[Damian]

Single Piece ammo ( Brass /metal ), Not cellulose fiber material..

The video shows interior of M1A2SEP. Americans use ammunition cases made from combustible cellulose material. What falls from the gun after shot is only a stub case with primer. In case of Indian rounds, IMHO it is also combistible cellulose case, it is just looking like a metal due to paint job. There is no sense to use metal cases, because they take up space inside a vehicle Kunal.

Here You have M830 HEAT, You can see that projectile case is made from combustible case with metal stub base with primmer. So case burns when projectile is fired from a gun, and the only thing that is left is a stub case with primer that fall from gun after shot.

There is no escape if hits ammo storage at turret directly..

Also it seems these old merkavas dont had automatic fire extinguisher..

1) It is truth for both turret and hull if ammunition is not completely isolated behind blast doors in magazines with blow off panels.

2) Older Merkava variants have automatic fire extinguishers, the problem is, and not many people know this, that such extuinguishers are ment to extuinguish normal fire, like for example burning fuel, but are unable to extuinguish ammunition deflagration.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Single Piece ammo, And yes semicombustible cases for ammunition with steel obturating cup..
Though they are kept in close container in one particular place..

Same procedure..



There is no escape if hits ammo storage at turret directly..

Also it seems these old merkavas dont had automatic fire extinguisher..

In case of Indian rounds, IMHO it is also combistible cellulose case, it is just looking like a metal due to paint job. There is no sense to use metal cases, because they take up space inside a vehicle Kunal.

Yeah i edited my post little late..

1) It is truth for both turret and hull if ammunition is not completely isolated behind blast doors in magazines with blow off panels.

2) Older Merkava variants have automatic fire extinguishers, the problem is, and not many people know this, that such extuinguishers are ment to extuinguish normal fire, like for example burning fuel, but are unable to extuinguish ammunition deflagration.

Indeed they are not but its safer than layout of T-series tanks specially hull storage..

If set of ammo charges caught fire directly by enemy fire or other cause than its not possible coz the energy is just too much within just few secs, But any kind of spark and fire cause by enemy shell away or near ammo container can be extinguishes, New generation fire extinguishers act in mini seconds..

 

[Damian]

Indeed they are not but its safer than layout of T-series tanks specially hull storage..

IMHO safety is just the same... if ammunition start to burn, You are pretty much dead allready.

If set of ammo charges caught fire directly by enemy fire or other cause than its not possible coz the energy is just too much within just few secs, But any kind of spark and fire cause by enemy shell away or near ammo container can be extinguishes, New generation fire extinguishers act in mini seconds..

The same were thinking Israelis and British, and what?

You seen that Merkava photo on previous page, it was Mk2 variant with 105mm rifled gun, that use ammunition with metal cases, in theory safer, especially closed in ammunition containers that are claimed to be "armored", in reality this didn't help much.

As for British, they close propelant charges that are in combustible bags, in armored bins with extuinguishing liquid jacket between bulkheads, so in theory if something will break the bin, propelant should be drowned in extuinguishing liquid. This is theory, and reality:

The worst thing in this case, is that this Challenger 2 armor was not perforated, it was just a fire cause by a HESH round that hit commander hatch, but in the end, propelant charges started to deflagrate, HESH projectiles inside also started to burn, and this is the effect.

So the only safe ammunition storage system, up to this day, is used only by Americans.


Normally in tanks there are 40-42 rounds for main gun stored, in M1 series all ammunition is stored this way as on video, both in turret and hull. In some other tanks none of ammunition is stored that way, in some only 14-15 rounds is stored this way, in few other 22 rounds are stored this way, but in none other tank, whole ammunition have such safe storage for crew.

Sad but true.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The same were thinking Israelis and British, and what?.

How much time took for explosion ? I can understand about Merkava but regarding that brit tank ..

 

[Damian]

It was quick, there were two crew members inside vehicle and two several meters away outside. When the first round hit a tank, these outside were too short of time to take out driver, man sitting in tank commander seat died when HESH round hit his hatch.

 

[hest]

On new Arjun upgrade, Reactive armour placement (based on Kontakt-V) seems was added not much to increase frontal armour, but with requirement to provide safe turret manouvering up to +- 25 degrees (50 degrees) , similar to Western design, but with Russian solution.

On those angles Kinetic subcalibre tank rounds will be given strong lateral impulse and destabilisation, similar to ricochet effect.

About frontal armour, it could be better, but maybe it is considered enought protection given local threats.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

About frontal armour, it could be better, but maybe it is considered enought protection given local threats.

Frontal Armour was good enough, ERA is just a addition on request by GSQR looking at New threads.....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It was quick, there were two crew members inside vehicle and two several meters away outside. When the first round hit a tank, these outside were too short of time to take out driver, man sitting in tank commander seat died when HESH round hit his hatch.

If the fire started quick ( Sec ), Its unfortunate that they system didn't work as expected..

By looking at the pic it seems turret was thrown in air.