Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[methos]

105 mm HEAT-FS can penetrate as much armour as Obus-G, so a design similar to 120 mm DM12/M830 is possible.

 

[Damian]

Yeah, however in any case, rifling is not good for HEAT ammunition. I wonder if this makes any sense.

Sure You can develop HEAT ammunition for rifled gun, but do swithing to a smoothbore in a long term is not a better solution? Or if they really want to stick with rifled, why not develop programmable HE/HEF instead to replace HESH? It should work with rifled gun also without any problems, will be good against lighter armored, non armored target, structures and troops and give further capabilities.

Besides this if they stick with rifled gun, full bore HE/HEF with programmable fuze is still simpler choice (cheaper also), it does not need fins like HESH, so can use the same propelant case without any modifications + they can avoid any eventuall possibility that there will be need to manufacture more complex HEAT similiar to Obus-G.

 

[methos]

When the first Indian indigenous concepts were made (known as "Chetak") India didn't have access to any smoothbore tank guns - T-72s were bought later and the early T-72 also featured less capable guns with a maxmimum pressure of only 510 MPa. In NATO the first who fielded smoothbore guns for their tanks were the Germans and the Netherlands.Then a long time later the U.S. after the first prototype of the Chetak/Arjun (don't know when it was renamed) were originally planned to be ready. At the time the Chetak/Arjun was initally designed/concepts were made the hugest amount of tanks did not have special armour which means that HESH was not so stupid (only late Russian and late-batch Leopard 1s had special armour), at the time first should be produced the tank (at least it's main gun) was more or less outdated, but the Britains did the same with the Challenger 1.

Best thing would be to replace gun and especially the ammo of the Arjun. Regardless of 120 mm or 125 mm, at least smoothbore with human loader.

 

[Damian]

Yeah, but considering how long time development program was carried they could or change the gun in 1990's, or if there was no other choice but to stick with rifled gun, then different ammunition should be developed instead of HESH.

It's not a rocket science, we all know that.

 

[methos]

Yes that could have been possible and should have been done. Other elements of the tank were replaced during development like the transmission and the engine.

 

[pmaitra]

I had this lying on my desktop for a while, actually months, but the image upload was not working. Anyway, it's time to share it:

 

[lemontree]

Friends what ever the thing is Arjun is my countries first MBT and i love it just because we have started in right direction and in coming years with various improvements every critic of Arjun will be silenced.

No the Vijayant was the first Indian made MBT. It was a cocktail and a nightmare to maintain, but nevertheless our own.
Its 105mm main gun was manual and had a very high rate of fire and accurate too.

 

[sayareakd]

deleted...............................................................................

 

[sayareakd]

New Arjun MK-II sight

Shot at 2012-04-02

this is clear pic

Shot at 2012-04-02

 

[sayareakd]

looks like everything in the arjun MK-II graphic would come alive.

 

[pmaitra]

Amazing job Mr. Sayare. Looks like DRDO is doing all it can to make Arjun a versatile machine! So now we have a Arjun with minesweeper ploughs! Thanks for sharing.

 

[sayareakd]

From the looks of it, it appears that in new sight both left and right side move 360 degree independently and the center one has thermal sight. so it will give 360 coverage in all directions.

this is much better then what is on offer here

 

[sayareakd]

our sight might be better then what sagem MPS sight

http://www.sagem-ds.com/IMG/pdf/D1386E_MPS.pdf

 

[sayareakd]

Amazing job Mr. Sayare. Looks like DRDO is doing all it can to make Arjun a versatile machine! So now we have a Arjun with minesweeper ploughs! Thanks for sharing.

that is not my pic it was posted by ajay shukla in his blog here is the link Broadsword: Heavier, more lethal Arjun tank poised for trials

 

[sayareakd]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

hope second one turn out to be BFSR.................. new one has range of 30 km, with gyro stable gun platform it can operate while on move in one direction and at constant speed, static version is already been tested and found to be useful.

 

[sayareakd]

this is improved BFSR with 30 km range

Shot at 2012-03-29

this is used in BMP

Shot at 2012-03-29

 

[Damian]

What BS is this? Completely wrong informations.

M1A2 weight is 62,500kg, M1A2SEP 63,100kg. M256 120mm smoothbore gun can fire besides M829 series of APFSDS ammunition, also M830 HEAT, M830A1 MPAT, M908 HEOR, M1028 Cannister as well as all HE/HEF ammunition types developed for 120mm smoothbore guns like DM11. M1 series can also have up to 4 additional weapons, 2x coaxial (7,62mm machine gun, and 12,7mm machine gun, it is also possible to mount 40mm automatic granade launcher) and 2x near turret hatches (variety of configurations with 7,62mm machine guns, 12,7mm machine guns and 40mm automatic granade launchers).

What variant of Leopard 2 is mentioned here? Leopard 2 do not use M256 gun that is redesigned slightly US version of Rhinemetall RH-120 120mm smoothbore gun, that can fire the same variety of ammunition as M256.

What variant of Leclerc (there are 3 series with 11 variants of MBT) someone mentions here, seeing weight it seems that person that done that still lives in early 1990's and have in mind first version of Leclerc that is not in active use anymore. Also to information of that person, Leclerc use CN120-26 gun, such proper information can be even found on Wikipedia. CN120-26 can fire the same variety of ammunition as M256 and RH-120.

T-90S 2A46M-5 125mm smoothbore gun fires not only APFSDS and HEAT ammunition but also HE/HEF ammunition and GLATGM's (Gun Launched Anti Tank Guided Missiles)...

Arjun do not use 1500HP engine, but 1400HP engine the MTU838 Ka501.

This table is made by someone without any fundamental knowledge about tanks, and is complete and utter propaganda BS.

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Great, they installed expensive and huge radar on a tank in place that is most likely to be hit or even damaged during normal exploitation of vehicle... just briliant, and this radar makes installation of ERA (just like main sight also) or any other additional armor in that place immposible... just like more logical placement at turret rear in some armored box (similiar to radar assembly on BMR-1) wouldn't be better.

 

[sayareakd]

diaman, that bsfr is not expensive, it is locally made radar, plus normal range is 20 km, for vehicle and humans at 5 km, having identify threats much before enemy can even see or react is advantagious, plus arjun has far better protection then T90, those who have been to expo must have seen it, we on our part have measure armor at perticular place and even talk to crew who had knowledge about both tanks in desi language.

 

[Damian]

diaman, that bsfr is not expensive, it is locally made radar, plus normal range is 20 km, for vehicle and humans at 5 km, having identify threats much before enemy can even see or react is advantagious,

It might not be expensive but it's placement is completely idiotic. Seems that this might be cultural and experience difference, more experienced players in tank designing like to pay attention on details...

plus arjun has far better protection then T90,

Not true. In fact T-90 have better protection, especially on turret, where weak zones typical for Arjun are absent or properly reduced.

In case of Mk2 I do not see any improvement and graphis shows not precize ERA placement that looks more like ad hoc field work of some crew than factory made uparmoring.

those who have been to expo must have seen it, we on our part have measure armor at perticular place and even talk to crew who had knowledge about both tanks in desi language.

1) Did You messured armor properly? At what angles You messured armor? Do You know where composite armor cavieties are placed and how much from overall armor thickness is used by composite insert?
2) If You have messures please share them with us.
3) Pure armor thickness not says much, besides this with our messures T-90 with welded turret will have not thinner armor that Leopard 2 at 0 degrees from turret longitudinal axis. Arjun is based on Leopard 2 design, so IMHO looking at exterior and interior photos, armor thickness is similiar to Leopard 2.

 

[methos]

I had this lying on my desktop for a while, actually months, but the image upload was not working. Anyway, it's time to share it:

Weight values are wrong, ground pressure values are wrong, engine output values are wrong, cross-country speed values are wrong, main armament values are wrong, ammo types are wron, co-axial armament is wrong, other machine guns are wrong, categories NBC protection, RF and TI are senseless. Price values are not fixed, also wrong in most cases.