Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Daredevil]

[mod] No more off-topic posts. Only Arjun related posts allowed.[/mod]

 

[badguy2000]

Prolonging the War is sheer stupidity. And here India will not be the aggressor in the start and even if aggression takes place it will be a Blitzkreig operation. It will be too difficult for China to know what hit them. First the airbases, and tank and artillery regiments will be taken out. The Tank war will mostly be defensive in nature. and transportation to the Tawang sector is another difficult task for the Chinese. The Chinese tanks are underpowered and hence prompted the Pakistanis to go to thee Ukaranians for the engine. And also the engine is subjected to reliability issues. putting together a tank is not an easy task especially when it comes to the engine parts. Badguy why dont you ask S-2 or Vladmir how difficult it is to repair a tank on the battlefield even with the equipments Americcans and Russians possess. Building a tank is not that easy even if you have all the parts of the tank ready and just needs to be assembled.

first ,nobody dares attack CHinese now.even USA dares not.

attacking CHinese coastal industry base simply means a world war and would cause CHinese counterattack of eneny's industry base.

well, it seems a bit off topic..

let's get back to the topic.

how many advanced tanks in the service of India army is not important to CHinese at all,becasue we know those india tanks in service would not servive for weeks after sino-india war were to break out.
what we cares is india's war potential :" how many tanks can india produce every year after war breaks out ?"

at least for time being, most CHinese don't think that india's war potential is a big threaten to China.

 

[sayareakd]

In any event Arjun is not going to put on test on China border, for that we have NAMICA, BMP and light tanks in future.

 

[Armand2REP]

first ,nobody dares attack CHinese now.even USA dares not.

attacking CHinese coastal industry base simply means a world war and would cause CHinese counterattack of eneny's industry base.

If you start a war you better well be prepared for it.

how many advanced tanks in the service of India army is not important to CHinese at all,becasue we know those india tanks in service would not servive for weeks after sino-india war were to break out.
what we cares is india's war potential :" how many tanks can india produce every year after war breaks out ?"

Have you not been watching? Modern wars between nations do not last for years, it is a matter of weeks and months. You will not have time to worry about how fast you can produce tanks, you will have to worry about how good your combat readiness rate is.

 

[CS1.6]

you are sure that "The tanks of those days were easier to build..not today's tank.." ,just because you have never seen what a major industry power is like after fully mobilized.

guy, have a visit to vast industry bases in coastal CHina. then draw you conclusion.

can you tell me how good is a shoe plant for producing tanks? especially modern tanks;

there is actually not much "vast industry bases" in china, what china has is many many little workshop that has only cheap machines and low efficiency; most of them lack the ability to R&D;

 

[badguy2000]

can you tell me how good is a shoe plant for producing tanks? especially modern tanks;

there is actually not much "vast industry bases" in china, what china has is many many little workshop that has only cheap machines and low efficiency; most of them lack the ability to R&D;

well,
textile plants for uniforms ,body armors;
pharmaceutial facotories for drugs and medical cares;
auto plants for tanks and other military vechicles;
shipbuilding yards for warships , subs and transporters;
driving families cars are forbidden,in order to save fuels for wars;
coal-to-oil plants are mass-constructed;
food plants for cans and other military foods.
thousands of news military plants are to being constructed.


that is how economy is run during wartimes.

 

[neo29]

hey badguy2000 .. the indian army has its plans and preparations. Unlike chinese army propaganda , indian army dont go around boasting whats in their arsenal and whats their production capacity during wartime etc.

what makes you conclude that indian tanks will not survive the war?? Stop day dreaming " An Army of the People is Invincible " and " The Great Leap 2 " and stick to the original topic of arjun.

you are a proud patriot so are we.

 

[ppgj]

Main Battle Tank, Arjun

Main Battle Tank (MBT) Arjun is a multi-laboratory programme of DRDO with CVRDE as the lead Laboratory. It is a state-of-the-art tank with superior fire power, high mobility, and excellent protection. Twelve Mk 1 prototypes of MBT Arjun have been manufactured and their performance tests have provided satisfactory results. Some of the breakthroughs achieved by CVRDE during the development of MBT Arjun are in Engine, Transmission, Hydropneumatic Suspension, Hull and Turret, and Gun Control System.

Salient Features

Fire Power

The superior armour defeating capability of the indigenously developed Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition and 120 mm calibre rifled gun give MBT ARJUN an edge over contemporary world tanks. A computer-controlled integrated fire control system incorporating day-cum-night stabilized sighting system guarantees a very high first round hit probability and reduced reaction time to bring effective fire on targets.

The stabilization system for the main armament, slaved to the sighting equipment in elevation and azimuth, with a high and accurate laying speed, allows fire on the move.

The superior fire power of MBT is based on:

* Accurate and fast target acquisition capability during day and night and in all types of weather .
* Shortest possible reaction time during combat engagements
* Ability to accurately engage targets on move
* Capability to destroy all possible enemy armour at maximum battle ranges
* Excellent first hit probability

Main Armament

The rifled 120 mm ARJUN gun together with the newly developed super velocity ammunition, can defeat any contemporary armour used in tanks. The electro-slag refined gun steel tube is autofrettaged to withstand higher gas pressures. A thermal jacket prevents irregular temperature distribution on to the tube due to the weather influences.

Secondary Armament

A co-axial 7.62 mm machine gun for anti-personnel and a 12.7 mm machine gun for anti-aircraft and ground targets are provided as secondary weapons.

Gunner's Main Sight

Gunner's Main Sight consists of a day-sight, thermal sight, a laser range finder and a stabilized head common to all the three channels. The common sighting head mirror is stabilized in elevation and azimuth. The day- sight provides dual magnification.

The thermal imager provides night vision facility to the gunner and the commander to observe and engage target in total darkness and in the presence of smoke, dust, haze and light camouflage. Integral with the main sight is the laser range finder by which targets can be ranged accurately.

Panoramic Sight for Commander

Commander's panoramic sight enables the commander to effect an all round surveillance in the battlefield without removing his eyes from the sight and without being disturbed by the turret motion. The field of view is stabilized with the help of a two axes rate gyro-mounted on the platform of the head mirror. The sight offers dual magnification.

Ammunition

Two types of ammunition, viz, FSAPDS and HESH have been developed for this armament. The highly lethal
FSAPDS ammunition which is the main battle ammunition of the tank has accounted itself admirably during the trails. In addition, the anti-helicopter round to combat the air threat to armour is also under development.

Mobility

Low ground pressure, high power-to-weight ratio and new design concepts in transmission suspension and
running gear result in highly mobile and agile weapon platform.

The remarkable mobility of MBT which also adds to its protection is the result of:

* High performance engine
* Robust and effective transmission system particularly flexible hydropneumatic suspension .
* Optimized running gear with its high shock energy absorption.

Due to the high power-to-weight ratio and low specific ground pressure, MBT is fast, highly manoeuvrable and extremely mobile to cross the most difficult terrain with ease. High acceleration rapid braking capabilities with excellent steering characteristics make MBT agile in the battlefield. Adequate fuel storage capacity and relatively low fuel consumption allow for an optimal operational range.

An important criterion for the mobility of any AFV is the effective performance of the driver. Excellent vision systems both for day and night provide most effective means of observation in all battlefield conditions. The need to keep the crew's fatigue including that of driver at the minimum level over long periods of continuous operation, have been taken care of.

Protection

All round protection from anti-tank ammunition is achieved by t~e newly developed KANCHAN armour to a degree much higher than available in present generation tanks. The high degree of immunity is achieved by.

* The computerised design and simulation
* A fabricated turret housing lightweight compact KANCHAN armour
* Careful dimensioning of wall through optimal slopes and angles
* A low silhouette

Crew Comfort

Ergonometry, using anthropometric data of Indian troops, has been kept in view while designing the fighting and driving compartments to fully exploit the outstanding features of the weapon system. Hydropneumatic suspension provides excellent ride comfort for crew eliminating fatigue even on the extended runs.


Specifications

Dimensions

Overall length {with gun forward) 10.638 m
Overall height {with gun rear) 9.546 m
Overall height {with AD gun mount) 3.03 m(Turret roof: 2.32 m)
Overall width 3.864 m
Combat weight 58.5 tons

Technical Characteristics

Max speed 70 km/hr
Max speed on cross country 40 km/hr
Ground pressure 0.84 kg/sq. cm.
Engine power 1400 HP at 2400 rpm
Engine characteristics V 90° Turbo charged diesel, 10 cylinder water cooled
Power-to-weight ratio 24:1 HP/ton
Gear box 4 fwd +2 rev gears Epicyclic gear train, Torque converter, Mech lockup clutch & hydrodynamic retarder

Steering Double radii, mechancial steering with neutral turn
Suspension Hydrogas
Shallow fording 1.4 m
Vertical obstacle 0.914 m
Trench crossing 2.43 m
Gradient 35 deg
Gun 120 mm rifled
Rate of fire 6-8 rounds per minute
Ammunition 39 rounds (FSAPDS/HESH)
Co-axial machine gun Mag 7.62 mm Tk 715 A
Anti aircraft machine gun HCB 12.7 mm
Fire control system Director type
Gun control system Electro-hydraulic
Night vision Thermal imaging
Ballistic computer Digital
Crew 4 (Cmdr, Gnr, Ldr. Dvr)

Main Battle Tank

 

[bengalraider]

no feelings only technicalities

I know this is off-topic but anyways from a position of neutrality!

I think any future indo-china conflict shall most primarily be a limited border war as studies by nearly all think tanks indicate , in such a war the primary offensive role shall be based upon air power. here India has a clear edge in the Himalayan sector as her airfields are located on the plains i.e CAS aircraft shall be able to take off from Indian bases in the Himalayan foothills with a higher A2G weapons load than PLAAF CAS aircraft shall be able to do from higher airfields in Tibet, this is due to lower oxygen levals at take-off leading to lower engine thrust, the much Higher service ceiling of the LCH shall also help. Also any Chinese tank offensive into India (or conversely any Indian operation into China)shall have to cross high and narrow mountain passes,In either case the defender has the upper hand as these are kill-zones for tanks; Tank engines cannot use the oxygen depleted mountain air and still provide max Bhp i.e the vehicles will be slow moving targets ideal for Concentrated MLRS or artillery fire from the OPFOR ;Any tank force will be massacred on the passes, small commando teams with man-portable ATGM's from either side can also cause immense loss to OPFOR tank forces in mountain terrain ;they can fire and hide in ravines only to re-emerge and fire again.Any Tank invasion form either side will be a fiasco to remeber in the Himalayas.

 

[badguy2000]

I know this is off-topic but anyways from a position of neutrality!

I think any future indo-china conflict shall most primarily be a limited border war as studies by nearly all think tanks indicate , in such a war the primary offensive role shall be based upon air power. here India has a clear edge in the Himalayan sector as her airfields are located on the plains i.e CAS aircraft shall be able to take off from Indian bases in the Himalayan foothills with a higher A2G weapons load than PLAAF CAS aircraft shall be able to do from higher airfields in Tibet. Also any Chinese tank offensive into India (or conversely any Indian operation into China)shall have to cross high and narrow mountain passes,In either case the defender has the upper hand as these are kill-zones for tanks; Tank engines cannot use the oxygen depleted mountain air and still provide max speed i.e the vehicles will be slow moving targets ideal for Concentrated MLRS or artillery fire from the OPFOR they will be massacred on the passes, small commando teams with man-portable ATGM's can also cause immense loss to tank forces in mountain terrain they can fire and hide in ravines only to re-emerge and fire again.Any Tank invasion form either side will be a fiasco in the Himalayas.

PLA's armor division in Asai Chin says hellow to you.

PLA doployed one armor division with full heavy arms in 3 days in a mission several years ago
If PLA could deployed one ,why it can not deploy a second one and a third one?

 

[Agantrope]

PLA's armor division in Asai Chin says hellow to you.

PLA doployed one armor division with full heavy arms in 3 days in a mission several years ago
If PLA could deployed one ,why it can not deploy a second one and a third one?

If it very easy to deploy one devision, 2 division or may be n division, defender will have the upper hand over the other. It will be very easy to take a tank away from a small cliff. War will be only of a limited military skirmish or the air forces' muscle power display.

Again the topic derailed :twizt:. So we can stop it here. May be we can start a new topic. Off may end with this one. Lets back to Arjun:thank_you2:

 

[notinlove]

hey ppgj one question , what is the main armament the HESH or APFSDS ;
if it is APFSDS then that's a huge mistake because rifled guns are better suited for HESH rounds.

 

[Agantrope]

hey ppgj one question .....
what is the main armament the HESH or APFSDS ......
if it is APFSDS then thats a huge mistake because rifled guns are better suited for HESH rounds.

It is of HESH round. Though capable of APFSD.
Prime armament is HESH for any rifledgun

 

[zraver]

It is of HESH round. Though capable of APFSD.
Prime armament is HESH for any rifledgun

It won't be HESH, not if you want to kill the AK. Spaced armor and spall liners render HESH almost worthless except as an anti-bunker weapon. The main round will be either APDS or HEAT.

Because I was asked.

Arjun advantages

better suspension and ride
better armor
4 man crew
better FCS

AK advantages
hunter-killer ability
faster speed
lower profile

shared disadvantages
weak gun power using short 2 piece ammuntion.

major needed improvements to make an Arjun II world class

120mm L56 with DM-63 or similar round or 2A46M-5 L-52 used on the T-90 with 3BM42M or better round.

SLAT side armor

Hunter-killer ability via commanders independent FLIR

active protection/suppression system

1500hp power plant that can be produced in India

 

[Agantrope]

It won't be HESH, not if you want to kill the AK. Spaced armor and spall liners render HESH almost worthless except as an anti-bunker weapon. The main round will be either APDS or HEAT.

If HESH is not used then kill with ATGM will be result as useless rite??
Any explain more abt this

 

[zraver]

If HESH is not used then kill with ATGM will be result as useless rite??
Any explain more abt this

HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) also known as HEP (High Explosive Plastic) fires a round that hits the target where the plastique filled warhead then deforms to conform to the target before exploding. The explosion won't penetrate, but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. say the warhead explodes with 10,000lbs per sqaure inch. 90% of that is directed outwards and is useless. But that remaining 1000psi travels through the medium of the target via a shock wave. When that shock wave reaches the other side it causes part of the interior to break off with imparted force this is called spalling.

Spalling can do nasty things to the human body, set off ammo and in some cases start fires. HESH was developed in WWII by the Uk to defeat German heavy tanks. It was very effective but is easily defeated by using spaced armor to stop the transition of the shock wave. Also since spall is irregular shaped pieces of material anti-spall liners like Kevlar are very effective at stopping it.

Almost every modern tank uses spaced armor and anti-spall liners leaving HESH a very poor choice for anti-armor work.

 

[Agantrope]

HESH (High Explosive Squash Head) also known as HEP (High Explosive Plastic) fires a round that hits the target where the plastique filled warhead then deforms to conform to the target before exploding. The explosion won't penetrate, but for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. say the warhead explodes with 10,000lbs per sqaure inch. 90% of that is directed outwards and is useless. But that remaining 1000psi travels through the medium of the target via a shock wave. When that shock wave reaches the other side it causes part of the interior to break off with imparted force this is called spalling.

Spalling can do nasty things to the human body, set off ammo and in some cases start fires. HESH was developed in WWII by the Uk to defeat German heavy tanks. It was very effective but is easily defeated by using spaced armor to stop the transition of the shock wave. Also since spall is irregular shaped pieces of material anti-spall liners like Kevlar are very effective at stopping it.

Almost every modern tank uses spaced armor and anti-spall liners leaving HESH a very poor choice for anti-armor work.

Also zraver could pls explain the difference between contemporary smoothbore guns and rifled guns

 

[Armand2REP]

explain the difference between contemporary smoothbore guns and rifled guns

Rifled barrels were historically more accurate than smoothbores in the early days of tank guns. The spin from the rifeling made that possible. Todays tanks mostly carry smoothbore since the development of fin-stabalised rounds. This makes rifling unecessary in a tank gun. Smoothbores are cheaper to produce and last much longer since their are no rifling grooves to wear out.

 

[notinlove]

Rifled guns have Rifling done in them . the cross section of a rifled gun looks something like this .

Pros of Rifling.
Increases long rage accuracy as the fired shot revolves on its axis which provides it stability and accuracy.
Cons of rifling:
It reduces speed of the fired shot because a part of the imparted energy is used up in giving the shot spin.
more wear and tear.
costlier to produce.

now
a HESH round needs low energy in order to be most effective as the lower the energy the lesser the area over which the plastic explosive will be scattered and the higher the pressure at the area of impact. if it is fired with too much velocity then the plastic explosive will simple scatter over a large area and the resulting pressure per unit area will simply not be enough to do significant damage i the inner compartment of the tank . Hence a Rifled gun is perfect for a HESH Round. as it provides it a lower required speed and high accuracy

These days Tanks use the much more effective APFSDS round which for simple understanding can be equated to an arrow . the higher the speed the better the penetration hence smooth bore guns on contemporary tanks as they give the rounds higher velocities.

to put things in perspective.
the ideal velocity for a HESH round is 500-600 m /s
where as the ideal velocity for a APFSDS round is 1000-1100 m /s or more

only two countries use rifled guns on their tanks as of today
the challenger in UK
and Arjun in india.

 

[notinlove]

bengalraider - 11:32 AM 09-01-2010
would also love something akin to the KSTAM for the Arjun.

we have the LAHAT for Arjun . it can be set to top attack mode also.