Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[plugwater]

Ya since when Damaia became an authority on Arjun? Look at his last argument, everything he said was wrong. He later accepted that the Thermal Sights are not from Germany, he spoke with such confidence and conviction to back a null point!

Manc wake up, Arjun is a great tank for Asian war zone.

Damien has very good knowledge about tanks, i have seen his posts in mp.net and he knows what he is talking about.

Arjun is not a great tank thats why it is used for defensive purposes.

If you want to prove Arjun is awesome means please reply to his 1077th post

 

[Damian]

Kanchan Armour is more than enough on Turret frontal Armour without any question,

Did I say something about this?

The harder module is placed in weak sight zone,

Any proof about this?

Turret sides are vulnerable depending Existing MK1 gets ERA over their..

ERA will not solve this problem completely because of turret geometry.

Breaching Turret mantle is not butter in knife, And not that easy, But minimization is important..

Turret mantle is weakly armored because it need to be light enough for servo mechanism. So as small gun mantle as possible is desired.

If Arjun MK1 is to vulnerable than think abt all those T-72M1 we are using,

Well yes, T-72M1's are vurnabale to modern weapon systems, but they are good enough to fight against T-54/55, T-62 tanks and their derivatives.

T-90S Armour is imported stuff which are not good as original in terms of Composite Armour module..

What makes You think it is not good?

Kanchan is tested in India and modified as per need, Russian Armour is not tailor made coz its a foreign tank..

All composite armors are semi-modular, this means that You can modify them per needs or even replace original inserts with newer ones.

Ya since when Damaia became an authority on Arjun?

First learn to write properly someones name. Second did I or someone else said something about authority? However I at least use evidence, logic and proofs in forms of photos to back up my arguments, You have nothing.

Look at his last argument, everything he said was wrong.

Everything?! You little lier! Go and read all my post!

I hate idiots, but even more I hate liers.

He later accepted that the Thermal Sights are not from Germany,

Yes I accepted, and I admit, I was wronge, this is because crosshair in Arjun sight is just same as in Leopard 2 EMES-15 sight.

he spoke with such confidence and conviction to back a null point!

Man without confidence in his belifes, knowledge etc. is not a man.

Manc wake up, Arjun is a great tank for Asian war zone.

What means Asian War zone? Any modern MBT should be universal and good to fight in any zone on our planet. All best MBT's were designed to be effectively used in any climatic zone.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Damien has very good knowledge about tanks, i have seen his posts in mp.net and he knows what he is talking about.

Arjun is not a great tank thats why it is used for defensive purposes.

Damien have good knowledge abt tanks indeed, But he is wrong too in many cases with confidence, I am in MP and we both discuss topic there..

Manc know abt IA structure first, Arjun Belong to fast reaction force which are meant for counter attack enemy armored thrust and in counter attack we go into enemy zone, The regiment inducted with Arjun is working with other regiments consist of T-90S too..

T-90S is not good tank but Logistically prefer coz it share same maintence and other procedure with T-72M1..

 

[plugwater]

Well yes, T-72M1's are vurnabale to modern weapon systems, but they are good enough to fight against T-54/55, T-62 tanks and their derivatives.

So you are saying Arjun is even weaker than T-54/55/62 ?

 

[Damian]

The RHA tried out had two thicknesses, i.e. a 350 mm plate and a 315 mm plate. However these two plates had the same weight as a 120mm RHA.

This have no logic...

The anti-tank munitions have problems in penetrating denser mass.

What ammunition was used to test Kanchan armor, this is important, I can say that 3BM15 was tested and did not perforate armor but this means nothing, what if enemy have much better ammunition?

Kanchan armour composition has undergone massive changes since 1980's.

What changes?

The volume of the RHA has been reduced to lesser mass because of better metallurgy.

This can also means less armor density.

The composite has evolved too and it does not use the 1980s technology anymore.

So it use NERA and heavy metal alloy elements or not, if not then it is still 1980's technology by western standards.

So you are saying Arjun is even weaker than T-54/55/62 ?

No, I'm not insane!

Damien have good knowledge abt tanks indeed, But he is wrong too in many cases with confidence, I am in MP and we both discuss topic there..

I'am working on information I can gather, on my own observation etc. It is normal that in some cases I can be wrong.

T-90S is not good tank

Why? I want detailed informations why.

 

[plugwater]

Damien have good knowledge abt tanks indeed, But he is wrong too in many cases with confidence, I am in MP and we both discuss topic there..

Manc know abt IA structure first, Arjun Belong to fast reaction force which are meant for counter attack enemy armored thrust and in counter attack we go into enemy zone, The regiment inducted with Arjun is working with other regiments consist of T-90S too..

T-90S is not good tank but Logistically prefer coz it share same maintence and other procedure with T-72M1..

Sir, He has actually made only one mistake in here if i am not wrong and we are yet to give him answers for the weaknesses he showed in arjun.

You are sayin Arjun works with T-90S and what made you think it ll go to war zone ? Its a simple logic that Arjun is for defensive purpose and the counter attack is by T-90s.

T-90S is not good but better than Arjun.

 

[Damian]

Question, do Indian T-90S tanks use AINET system?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Any proof about this?,
ERA will not solve this problem completely because of turret geometry.
Turret mantle is weakly armored because it need to be light enough for servo mechanism. So as small gun mantle as possible is desired.
Well yes, T-72M1's are vurnabale to modern weapon systems, but they are good enough to fight against T-54/55, T-62 tanks and their derivatives.
What makes You think it is not good?
All composite armors are semi-modular, this means that You can modify them per needs or even replace original inserts with newer

Yes, the once operating and deign the tank, Its face to face..
Definitely, But gives good protection upto +400mm..
I said the same..
T-72M1 is good enough for that only not against modern 125mm shells..
Take the case of any Imported tank in the world, From past or present, It makes no difference if its western or Russian, License ones are even worst, The tanks imported or given to Poland are good ? compare to PT-91 now ?, Same thing is going with T-90S in India.

For that you need to have knowledge abt Licensed agreements, you cannot reproduce different from original tank under agreement, In case of T-90S bhisma its a friendly gesture, We can only modify Licensed once as per the agreement but its not same for everyone.

 

[Damian]

Yes, the once operating and deign the tank, Its face to face..

It is still no proof.

Definitely, But gives good protection upto +400mm..

+400mm? Current standard for light ERA is 500mm RHA vs HEAT.

I said the same..

Nope.

T-72M1 is good enough for that only not against modern 125mm shells..

Yes.

Take the case of any Imported tank in the world, From past or present, It makes no difference if its western or Russian, License ones are even worst, The tanks imported or given to Poland are good ? compare to PT-91 now ?, Same thing is going with T-90S in India.

Yes imported tanks in my country are good, we have Leo2A4's.

T-72M1's and PT-91's use same composite armor.

For that you need to have knowledge abt Licensed agreements, you cannot reproduce different from original tank under agreement, In case of T-90S bhisma its a friendly gesture, We can only modify Licensed once as per the agreement but its not same for everyone.

yes but Your country still can replace original T-90S armor with Kanchan armor right?

 

[Godless-Kafir]

@GK,

He is right abt most things he mentioned:
1. Like Sight placement of Arjun from cousin LEOA4
2.Turret Side which is vulnerable in most tanks
3.Turret mantel is big coz IA wanted space inside Arjun for electronic
4.Arjun Ammo is not good as NATO rounds.
5.Chasis frontal Armour have a void zone..

Above all Arjun is India`s 1st tank and made with Army`s directions,Arjun is the most effective tank in IA than any other in IA..

Arjun MK2 is meant to be improved over MK1 and i hope for the best coz it will be the best..

That guy is an troll, he is just looking to pull some uneducated guess out of his rear just to show western superiority or else he cant sleep today.

I agree with point 4, our ammo is not good and they also need to switch to smooth bore, everything else exists in all others tanks as well.

1. Sights dont make a difference because modern missiles hit from the top angle like a Cobra. So the penetration happens on the top. Side armor is as good as any tanks and RPGs or tanks shells have not proven to defeat the armor. German tanks still maintain the same configuration, may be this internet troll should go and speak to the German government first.

2. The Armour is comparable to most modern tanks, i dont see a great diffrence compared to t-90 or other tanks.

3. Turret mantel has not changed since the first prototype. Turret mantel is similar in size to German and French tech.

4. Agreed.

5. Can you elaborate more on the difficulties on this?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Sir, He has actually made only one mistake in here if i am not wrong and we are yet to give him answers for the weaknesses he showed in arjun.

You are sayin Arjun works with T-90S and what made you think it ll go to war zone ? Its a simple logic that Arjun is for defensive purpose and the counter attack is by T-90s.

Well i said he make mistakes confidently..

Manc, I know what i said..

 

[plugwater]

1. Sights dont make a difference because modern missiles hit from the top angle like a Cobra. So the penetration happens on the top. Side armor is as good as any tanks and RPGs or tanks shells have not proven to defeat the armor. German tanks still maintain the same configuration, may be this internet troll should go and speak to the German government first.

Cut the troll part GK.

Side armor is very thin compared to other tanks.

RPG and tank shells are not proven to defeat the armor ? that is news to me .

 

[Damian]

That guy is an troll, he is just looking to pull some uneducated guess out of his rear just to show western superiority or else he cant sleep today.

Who is a troll? You don't even once used any argument backed up by logic and evidence. Do You even understand what is written in someones posts?

And yes, both Russia/Ukraine (Ex USSR) and NATO and it's allies are superior in technology, this is strange or bad for You? It is some kind of Your nationalism and bias towards other countries?

1. Sights dont make a difference because modern missiles hit from the top angle like a Cobra.

And how many such missiles are in use over the world? Educate Yourself.

Side armor is as good as any tanks and RPGs or tanks shells have not proven to defeat the armor.

Oh god, what do You know about other tanks? Compare designs You ignorant and then answer.

German tanks still maintain the same configuration,

So what? Germans never builded superior tanks to other nations, and armor configuration in Leopard 2A5/A6 (KWS II program) was changed as much as turret design permitted).

2. The Armour is comparable to most modern tanks, i dont see a great diffrence compared to t-90 or other tanks.

You don't see, so watch these fuckin photos and compare with western tanks... or maybe Your IQ is so small that You don't understand?

I even marked on photos where to look.

3. Turret mantel has not changed since the first prototype. Turret mantel is similar in size to German and French tech.

There is no such thing as turret mantle, there is gun mantle, Christ You don't even know proper terminology.

And yes, gun mantle is similiar in size (still bigger) to gun mantle on Leopard 2A1/A4 tanks, on Leopard 2A5/A6 gun mantle was redesigned and is smaller.

But similiar to French tanks? What French tanks? Do You ever seen Leclerc gun mantle?! I think not.

 

[A.V.]

[hl]Ok guys lets discuss in a civil manner without any personal attacks please , kill the post not the poster - a kind request[/hl]

 

[Kunal Biswas]

It is still no proof.

+400mm? Current standard for light ERA is 500mm RHA vs HEAT.

Nope.

Yes imported tanks in my country are good, we have Leo2A4's.

T-72M1's and PT-91's use same composite armor.

yes but Your country still can replace original T-90S armor with Kanchan armor right?

Its not intenet thing either

Yes, that must be the case..

Yes..

What abt Egyptian M1s ?

Hmm.. the T-72M have gill armour afterwards licensed models have additional 16 mm steel plate welded on the upper glacis plate, like the T-72M1, Than PT-91 was born, But compare to soviat T-72A with Dolly Parton, Imported T-90S in India are not good as T-90A..

Yes that what we are doing..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

This have no logic...

Testing means logic, internet means nothing.

What ammunition was used to test Kanchan armor, this is important, I can say that 3BM15 was tested and did not perforate armor but this means nothing, what if enemy have much better ammunition?

This is why i called this a waste of time. You dont read and update yourself and you repeatedly argue without facts. All ammo have been tested against it.

What changes?

This can also means less armor density.

You read it again.

So it use NERA and heavy metal alloy elements or not, if not then it is still 1980's technology by western standards.

The Armour is a secret and it works like an heavy metal alloy element on the Chobham.

Poland is not western, they have just accepted you from the eastern block, i wont blow your trumpet on that one to much, more over your T-50 clones are down right non-western..Not to mention the German tanks your country bought have sights placed just like the Arjun.

No, I'm not insane!

Who said you where!!! but i have my doubts.

I'am working on information I can gather, on my own observation etc. It is normal that in some cases I can be wrong.



Why? I want detailed informations why.

Being wrong is not bad but to argue a null point which is wrong and out of arrogance and pride makes others defensive as you and leads no where. Go learn and come back i am done with you. I dont need to continue this unpleasant discussion, does not lead to learning or any benifit to the reader.

END.

 

[shuvo@y2k10]

the t-90 is a p[iece of junk and even russians know that.comparing t-90 with arjun is like comparing cuba with america militarily.

 

[Damian]

Its not intenet thing either

Indeed, pitty that there are no photos of Kanchan armor availabale as Burlington armor photos, BDD armor and Reflecting plates in T-72B turret.

What abt Egyptian M1s ?

But this is just US policy of arms exports, US is only superpower on this planet, they don't want anyone to have their best technology.

Hmm.. the T-72M have gill armour afterwards licensed models have additional 16 mm steel plate welded on the upper glacis plate, like the T-72M1, Than PT-91 was born, But compare to soviat T-72A with Dolly Parton,

Situation with Polish T-72's is a bit more complicated, we had completely different designation system than Soviets so we have T-72, T-72A, T-72M, T-72M1 (and command versions with D index), then PT-91, PT-91M, PT-91MA1 etc.

This Explain T-90S and T-90A difference too..

Not completely, no source says that T-90S have downgraded armor compared to T-90 and T-90A.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What ammunition was used to test Kanchan armor, this is important, I can say that 3BM15 was tested and did not perforate armor but this means nothing, what if enemy have much better ammunition?
This can also means less armor density.So it use NERA and heavy metal alloy elements or not, if not then it is still 1980's technology by western standards. I'am working on information I can gather, on my own observation etc. It is normal that in some cases I can be wrong.Why? I want detailed informations why.

Damian, the guys working on Armour are commonly PHDs in Physics and Chemistry or both, It is evident the full knowledge from such article is impossible, Its gives you the Idea, and if you know you dont question..

To Understand one have to work hard to that level, Getting a PHD is not observations, Have some respect..

 

[Damian]

Testing means logic, internet means nothing.

Yeah, and did You participated in these tests? Or You just belive in anything?

There are some very wise words:

"Nothing is true, Everything is permitted" - Hasan ibn Sabbah.

You of course belive in anything that DRDO is saying, I belive in observation, making conclusions, comparing data.

This is why i called this a waste of time. You dont read and update yourself and you repeatedly argue without facts. All ammo have been tested against it.

What all ammo? You see, You don't say what ammo, what means all ammo? DM53, DM63? M829A3 (US is not even willing to export M829 series to anyone). So once again I ask, what types of ammunition was tested, give me designation names, from what these ammunition was fired, at what distance and with what angle were hits in armor.

You read it again.

Oh poor person, You are even confusing armor density with quality of steel.

The Armour is a secret and it works like an heavy metal alloy element on the Chobham.

I don't know here what to do, laugh or just treat You like a mentally ill.

BTW there was never such thing like Chobham armor, proper designation name is Burlington, but You did not know that also?

What are Your sources, Wikipedia?

Poland is not western, they have just accepted you from the eastern block, i wont blow your trumpet on that one to much, more over your T-50 clones are down right non-western..

?

You have serious issues with nationalism.

And lack of knowledge about other countries history.

Who said you where!!! but i have my doubts.

You can have Your doubts, still no counter arguments from Your side.

Being wrong is not bad but to argue a null point which is wrong and out of arrogance and pride makes others defensive as you and leads no where.

As above, You have no counterarguments backed up by logic and evidence, how long I need to repeat myself? Do You even learned at school wat these words (logic and evidence) means?

Go learn and come back i am done with you.

Oh, wow what adult and strong words.

And still I'm wating for counter arguments.

I dont need to continue this unpleasant discussion, does not lead to learning or any benifit to the reader.

Well, yes, definetly Your posts don't have many arguments.