Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

hitesh

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Well to my guess regarding why Arjun still going with same rifled gun is because DRDO is still piled up many core issues to deal with then changing the main gun which seems workable to army till now but provides no relief in the case of logistic & commonality in tank ammunition with respect to TSeries tanks which IA already employs.
If DRDO attempts to change the gun to smooth-bore 120 or 125 mm then whole tanks targeting system would need to be reconfigured which would again further delay the process .Due to same reason the flawed position of main sight of Arjun never attempted to rectify as it would lead to further complication & delays as they have to reprogram the targeting system .
 

pmaitra

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Well to my guess regarding why Arjun still going with same rifled gun is because DRDO is still piled up many core issues to deal with then changing the main gun which seems workable to army till now but provides no relief in the case of logistic & commonality in tank ammunition with respect to TSeries tanks which IA already employs.
If DRDO attempts to change the gun to smooth-bore 120 or 125 mm then whole tanks targeting system would need to be reconfigured which would again further delay the process .Due to same reason the flawed position of main sight of Arjun never attempted to rectify as it would lead to further complication & delays as they have to reprogram the targeting system .
True, and not only that, the kind of sophisticated equipment the Abrams has to ensure accuracy of its smoothbore, India cannot match, and finally, moving to smoothbore would reduce the accuracy of the Arjun's main rifled gun, which is one of the best in the world.
 

Kunal Biswas

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We have to keep this in mind that Arjun use single piece ammunition unlike T-tanks use double piece ammunition, Even if someone change Arjun to smooth-bore 125mm it won`t bring any major change than what it is now ..


120mm ammunition

125mm Two piece ammunition
Arjun having single piece ammunition with manual loader is an advantage over T-tanks two piece ammunition as Arjun ammunition APSDFS does not have length limitation unlike in T-tanks the length has certain limitation to fit in auto-loader, So in case of Arjun APSDFS round can evolve where in present T-tanks in IA does not ..

Further, If IA has any issue with 120mm rifled gun, It would have been changed in MK2 but as it is not we have to admit there are no issues with Rifled Gun in IA, It is IA wish to keep Rifled gun and Sight placement in Arjun as it is ..

Well to my guess regarding why Arjun still going with same rifled gun is because DRDO is still piled up many core issues to deal with then changing the main gun which seems workable to army till now but provides no relief in the case of logistic & commonality in tank ammunition with respect to TSeries tanks which IA already employs. If DRDO attempts to change the gun to smooth-bore 120 or 125 mm then whole tanks targeting system would need to be reconfigured which would again further delay the process .Due to same reason the flawed position of main sight of Arjun never attempted to rectify as it would lead to further complication & delays as they have to reprogram the targeting system .
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Arjun MK1 FCS Origin >>









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Arjun`s FCS is customized as per need with help of Eblit and DRDO & Manufactured by BEL, The FCS Arjun use is very sophisticated it is also use in other tanks with smoothbore guns ..

True, and not only that, the kind of sophisticated equipment the Abrams has to ensure accuracy of its smoothbore, India cannot match, and finally, moving to smoothbore would reduce the accuracy of the Arjun's main rifled gun, which is one of the best in the world.
 

ersakthivel

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How AK Antony damaged the soul of the Army

While Manmohan Singh's personality in the psychological context of the Indians was a perfect veneer for pliability, criminal collusion and subversion of the spirit of Indian Constitution, Antony's assiduously acquired 'clean image' came in handy for 'powers that be' to subvert and wreck the Indian Armed Forces from within.

It may be reiterated here that Manmohan Singh in no sense was an elected Prime Minister and therefore his writ did not extend to picking up his own defence minister. The Prime Minister and the defence minister were picked up by the same authority and for same considerations, the least of all 'integrity'.

In fact, integrity and incorruptibility, financial and moral, were two biggest disqualifications in the previous regime.If Manmohan Singh delivered to his political benefactor and mentor by way of CWG, Coal and 2G; Antony did not lag behind. Never before in the history of India, the three services were targeted the manner in which it was done during Antony's stewardship of the MoD. Never in independent India, had the arms lobby become so brazen and criminal that it dared to manipulate 'chain of succession' of service chiefs.

The Indian Army was deliberately dragged into controversy by fabricating age related issue in respect of an Army Chief. Mr Antony vouched for the integrity of this Army Chief when he reported the Tatra scam to him. When the age issue came up in the Supreme Court, the government of which Mr Antony was a part, submitted an affidavit to the honourable bench, testifying the integrity of the concerned Army Chief.

If the Army Chief was a man of integrity, then Mr Antony must answer as to why did he re-elicit the opinion of the Law Ministry, when it had categorically ruled in favour of the Army Chief. The common buzz is that it was done at the behest of someone, to whom Mr Antony owed his office.The next in the line was Indian Air Force. Once the VVIP Chopper scam was reported from a foreign soil, as is invariably the case, a former Air Chief was made the scapegoat for allegedly being recipient of kick-backs.

The primary fault of this Air Chief was that as demanded, he had given his 'opinion' on the requisite operational parameters for procurement of VVIP Chopper. Even say, this Air Chief was guilty in the reckoning of Mr Antony for having allegedly received a small fraction of the kick-backs, the Defence Minister should have been worried as to who were the major recipients of public money. On this account both the Prime Minister and the Defence Minister were silent, because their puppeteer was in the grave shadow of doubt!

Now was the turn of Indian Navy. More than dozen accidents in a matter of months! It included two submarines. Many serving and retired Naval Officers asserted that the accidents were result of age related problems of the naval inventory. After every accident, the Naval Chief was put under-pressure. Finally, the powers that be succeeded. The Navy Chief resigned.

The desired person was put in Office. Such was the force and osmosis of this new Naval Chief that all age related problems of the inventory have mended without intervention and there have been no accidents thereafter. Very poor script Mr Antony! You and your patron indeed think very poorly of the intelligence of Indians and integrity of people in uniform.

Sadly there were some high ranking personnel in uniform to oblige the designs of your benefactors and the arms lobby. Subversion and sabotage by the arms lobby could not have acquired this new high, but for the indulgence of the dispensation. It was during the decade of the UPA rule that the notorious 'Chandigarh Gang' surfaced as the mainstay of the international arms lobby.

This gang is not necessarily in Chandigarh alone, but nevertheless is centered around it. It comprises some retired Officers, politicians, journalists and prominent newspapers. One of these newspapers, particularly one journalist was on an overdrive during the 'age-row' of the then Army Chief. It had gone to the extent of getting hysterical. Its obsession with General VK Singh continues. Another newspaper of the same ilk, carried the 'coup story' and a full page advertisement on 'Tatra' in the same issue.

The same very 'Chandigarh Gang' has been in the forefront of hyping the Chinese threat and disparaging the DRDO, all at the behest of the arms lobby. The media houses that are the part of this lobby, inconformity with the imperatives of the international arms manufacturers, from time to time bombards the audiences with 'Chinese here, Chinese there and Chinese everywhere' stories. Patriotic citizens should rather rely on the version of the Indian Army on these stories, then being misled by some of the unscrupulous media houses. Heading this 'Chandigarh Gang' was none other than the illustrious colleague of Mr Antony, who it is believed that was desperate to see through a 'succession plan' in the Indian Army.

It is also believed that it was he who prevailed on Mr Antony to re-obtain the opinion of the Law Ministry on the age issue of the said Army Chief.Threat analysis should be a major concern and responsibility of a defence minister. Mr Antony allowed the MoD to be hijacked on this issue. He equally shares the blame for India's sell out at Sharm-el-Sheikh.

As a result of Indo-US nuclear deal, he is equally responsible for degrading India's indigenous nuclear quest by slowing down the process of 'fast breeder reactor' and the 'thorium route'. If there are three ends to the spectrum of warfare, i.e. sub-conventional, conventional, and nuclear, then the entire gamut should be the concern of a defence minister.

If a prime minister is hysterical about only one end of this spectrum, then the motivations are not nationalistic. At the conventional level, Mr Antony did not allow one major arms acquisition even in the face of pernicious security imperatives on one pretext or the other. Indian security became a victim of the murderous internecine rivalry of the various arms lobbies.

At the sub-conventional or proxy war end of the spectrum, the defence minister allowed India's bargaining position to be neutralized vis-à-vis Pakistan by allowing the 'Chandigarh Gang' to implicate Col Purohit for Malegaon and Samjhauta blasts at the behest of international lobbies. The specter of 'Hindu terror' was drummed up by the media of the same 'Chandigarh Gang'. When the Army Court of Inquiry absolved this Officer, the least the defence minister should have done is to honourably reinstate him. This is bound to recoil as one of the biggest scams involving highest levels of the country. An unpardonable act on the part of the defence minister was to acquiesce to the machinations by the arms lobby for inquiry on the Technical Support Group (TSG) to kill the political prospects of Gen VK Singh.

The TSG raised for acquiring operational and tactical intelligence in the wake of 26/11. Those who are in the know of the splendid achievements of TSG, very much doubt the patriotism of the characters who questioned the functioning of the organization in order to pander anti-nationals in the Kashmir Valley and their Pakistani benefactors.

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Now we know why some sections of "eggsperts in defence media" are engaging constant mudslinging on indigenous projects like tejas and Arjun
 

p2prada

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

This is extremely important for Indian conditions where most engagement happens below 1 Km. Invar has a minimum range of 100 m.
What is the engagement philosophy of using normal tank rounds vs cannon fired missiles at ranges below 1000 mts.?

In short when do we use missiles over tank rounds at overlapping ranges? ( Except indirect fire)
 

hitesh

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Bola tha maine DRDO ko smoothbore sue karne ko lakin unhe to purane rifiled gun he use karne thee ,Had they bin using smooth bore gun it would have bin much easier to use missiles like the Russians & Israeli been using
 

p2prada

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

What is the engagement philosophy of using normal tank rounds vs cannon fired missiles at ranges below 1000 mts.?

In short when do we use missiles over tank rounds at overlapping ranges? ( Except indirect fire)
I don't know. And I doubt operational tankies will tell us. I guess the tank commander makes the call depending on the conditions of the engagement. Since missiles are expensive, the use of the missile would have to be justified by the commander in his report.
 

sgarg

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

This is extremely important for Indian conditions where most engagement happens below 1 Km. Invar has a minimum range of 100 m.
This is the most illogical requirement. Why is it important. You use the main gun at low ranges.

The missile is for long range engagement where the tank is emplaced or hidden.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Army makes specs, They seems to be satisfied with Rifle gun on Arjun, That`s why MK2 specs also counts Rifled gun ..

Bola tha maine DRDO ko smoothbore sue karne ko lakin unhe to purane rifiled gun he use karne thee ,Had they bin using smooth bore gun it would have bin much easier to use missiles like the Russians & Israeli been using
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True said, Though they are following strictly as per requirement, I assume ..

This is the most illogical requirement. Why is it important. You use the main gun at low ranges.

The missile is for long range engagement where the tank is emplaced or hidden.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

CLGM Testfired:

CLGM Testfired: The DRDO on Monday conducted tests of an advanced version of Cannon-launched Laser Guided Missile (CLGM) from the ITR here.Three rounds of the missile were test-fired from a specially built launcher at the launching complex-II of ITR. A defence official said the missile destroyed the targets as expected."The tests were conducted in between 3.30 pm and 4.30 pm during low tide period. There will be one more round of test on Tuesday," he said.
DRDO readies for tests of Pinaka versions - The New Indian Express

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he Pune-based DRDO lab, Armament Research & Development Establishment [ARDE] has initiated a tendering process to award a contract for supplying the Guidance system used in its Cannon-launched Laser Guided Missile [CLGM], presently under Cannon-Launched-Guided-Missile-CLGM-Indiadevelopment. The Indian company eventually chosen would have to provide 30 units of the system, that it would need to build in conformance with the design drawings, manufacturing process & quality standards provided to it by the concerned DRDO lab.

The tender for limited-scale manufacturing of this critical sub-system suggests that its developers have acquired a fair level of confidence with their design, not foreseeing the need for substantial re-design in the future, & are ready to take things forward. Once the final design is locked, large-scale production would be taken up by one of the designated DPSUs. Additionally, news of the postponement of an impending test wasn't followed up with the news of any test having take place subsequently. Could suggest faults were detected pre-flight, they went back to the drawing boards, & are now ready with corrected designs. The CLGM had tested success earlier in the year.

This assessment, if true either way, bodes well for the country's missile inventory. The 5 km range CLGM can target armoured vehicles, including Tanks, as well as low-flying aircrafts. It can be fired, both, from the barrel of the indigenous Arjun MBT, thus enhancing that platform's versatility, as well as a standalone system, that can be lugged around by soldiers. India's other indigenous Anti-Tank Guided Missile [ATGM], the Nag, on the other hand, is incompatible with the Arjun Tank, & is much too heavy to function as a man portable anti-tank system. News reports indicate intention to develop a lighter version of the Nag, although no trial launches have taken place, so far. Therefore, to plug in this gap in the arsenal, India intends to import the Israeli LAHAT missiles to kit its presently missile-nude Arjun. In addition, it is also contemplating whether to go for the American Javelin or the Israeli Spike missiles to replace its inventory of older man portable ATGMs. A smooth, preferably accelerated, development of the CLGM could lessen the number of the above mentioned missiles that are to be imported. The CLGM would also enjoy an advantage over the LAHAT in terms of its Guidance System used. While the latter employs a solely laser designated targeting system, the Indian solution is to have both direct/indirect laser designation, as well as heat seeking terminal guidance capability.
DRDO's CLGM Development Programme Appears To Be Progressing Well - AA Me, IN
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)





VEM Technologies eventually chosen to provide 30 units of the system, conformance with the design drawings, manufacturing process & quality standards provided to it by the DRDO labs.
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They are already ready for trails ..
 

power_monger

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Army makes specs, They seems to be satisfied with Rifle gun on Arjun, That`s why MK2 specs also counts Rifled gun ..



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True said, Though they are following strictly as per requirement, I assume ..
Could it be that this flexibility allows tank to be engaged with multiple targets simulatanesouly?
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Arjun MK2 unlike any-other tank in IA can engage multiple targets simultaneously, Its gunner can engage Armour targets at the same time commander can engage Infantry and Soft skin vehicles with RCWS which is slaved to Commander Electronic Panoramic sight ..

Could it be that this flexibility allows tank to be engaged with multiple targets simultaneously?
 

Pulkit

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Arjun MK2 unlike any-other tank in IA can engage multiple targets simultaneously, Its gunner can engage Armour targets at the same time commander can engage Infantry and Soft skin vehicles with RCWS which is slaved to Commander Electronic Panoramic sight ..
do we have any Indian option available for the anti tank missile role....
will this have any effect on the present orders?
 

hitesh

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

Arjun MK2 unlike any-other tank in IA can engage multiple targets simultaneously, Its gunner can engage Armour targets at the same time commander can engage Infantry and Soft skin vehicles with RCWS which is slaved to Commander Electronic Panoramic sight ..
Sir jee :scared1: T90MS too have RCW (2-axis stabilized remote controlled machine-gun with FCS compatible with any 3rd party weapon including grenade launcher, automatically target tracking)


The Placement of The RCW in Arjun is flawed as it is creating blind spots for other Optics
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

T-90MS is not in IA nor of Indian origin like i said in my post ..

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RCWS can be operated by the loader as well Commander this is done by slaving both Gunner sight and Loader RCWS with help of COAPs, If commander wanted to use RCWS or the Main gun himself he is free to do so, In such case he will be using RCWS optics through COAPs display available to him, This gives the tank a new capability so does his commander, Unlike anything else in IA ..







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RCWS which is stabilized and have Day and night optical and targeting both infantry and soft-skin vehicles so does Airborne targets ..




The Placement of The RCW in Arjun is flawed as it is creating blind spots for other Optics
 
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