Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[Pandora]

All right guys,I twitted Saurav Jha from Geek at large to take an interview of CVRDE chief regarding Arjun Mk2 development.He said he will take soon but if we can send him a compilation list of question and suggestion on his email id that would be better for him. So please drop your questions in precise and to point manner . Thanks @Kunal Biswas , @Damian, @arnabmit @ersakthivel @militarysta @Twinblade

 

[Blood+]

All right guys,I twitted Saurav Jha from Geek at large to take an interview of CVRDE chief regarding Arjun Mk2 development.He said he will take soon but if we can send him a compilation list of question and suggestion on his email id that would be better for him. So please drop your questions in precise and to point manner . Thanks @Kunal Biswas , @Damian, @arnabmit @ersakthivel @militarysta @Twinblade

1.Ask about the turret side??

2.The reason behind still using a rifled gun??

 

[Blood+]

Hey @Pandora ,please clear your inbox bro.

 

[Pandora]

Hey @Pandora ,please clear your inbox bro.

Done bro.........

 

[ersakthivel]

Done bro.........

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. Arjun is no longer required.

DRDO is just keeping their experience relevant with Arjun Mk2 while they begin development of the FMBT. You can it's like how the Russians made the Su-35 as a stop gap and for exports while they developed the PAKFA in parallel. To support that the IA is buying 118 more for 3 regiments. A total of 6 Arjun regiments for the holding corps in Rajasthan.



Wishful thinking. 2000 T-90s have been decided. The rest will consist of 1500 T-72s upgraded. The last will have 200+ Arjuns. All for a grand total of 3800 tanks which is the govt sanctioned battle tank strength for the army.

Arjun is 15 years too late. Now it is time for FMBT which is to replace the 1500+ T-72s by the end of the next decade.

All of the criticisms come only from the media. DRDO themselves have given approval for T-90, so it is not a problem for them. At first the media said they should buy the Arjun instead of the T-90 irrespective of the fact that the Arjun wasn't really ready until 2008-10. After it was confirmed that the T-90s are going to be inducted no matter who says what, they directed their fire against upgrading T-72s. Now, it is confirmed that the army will upgrade 1500 out of 2500 T-72s to modern standards. So, there is no ammo left to attack the army anymore. The 1500 T-72s will be good for another 15 years, so by 2025-30 we should start inducting the FMBT.

Arjun is no longer needed, hence a dead end project. Next up is FMBT, and as long as they don't mess up this project things should go well. Or else by 2030, the army will induct new versions of the Armata while upgrading T-90s.



That's why the Arjun brigade is going into my ignore list. There are two types of people who join the forum among the young members. One, ignorant. Two, ignorant and naive. Only the second crop of members make up the Arjun brigade. They are unable to live with facts.

Bingo!!!!!!

Arjun is not required.

What is required now is umpteen dollar guzzling T-72 upgrades and , crew fainting in desert heat T-90 whose electronics jam in desert heat without AC.

SO we should immediately close the Arjun line and go with begging bowl through out the world looking for AC fitments to T-90 to make it work in the desert(which was rejected as not feasible by all the MNCs, whgo never showed any interest in this T-90 AC job, so now it is being thrust on who else, DRDO head!!!!)!!!!

But Modi govt is the dumbest in the world!!!! They are giving 118 fresh orders to Arjun mk2!!!!, We all know Modi is a fast guy. SO why he didnot ask for immediate closure of Arjun line and wasting public money on it?

Foreign guns, made in India | idrw.org

But then why the above article in THE WEEK says that,"new 118 Arjun mk2 orders which were kept pending for years and promptly issued by Modi government bringing smiles to the scientist face".

Ohhhh!!!! THE WEEK guy is ignorant perhaps , He did not have the intelligence to know that it was a token order to " just to keep the knowledge intact from a dead project"!!!!!

But a few guys here who sit in cabinet meetings to seems to know that it was a "token order" to keep the knowledge intact from a dead project!!!!

It is good to have such knowledgeable posters among ourselves to know what is a dead product and what is a good product!!!

Pandora bro. Please clarify with Saruav jha, "why this dead ARJUN project is being kept alive?"

 

[Pandora]

Bingo!!!!!!

Arjun is not required.

What is required now is umpteen dollar guzzling T-72 upgrades and , crew fainting in desert heat T-90 whose electronics jam in desert heat without AC.

SO we should immediately close the Arjun line and go with begging bowl through out the world looking for AC fitments to T-90 to make it work in the desert(which was rejected as not feasible by all the MNCs, whgo never showed any interest in this T-90 AC job, so now it is being thrust on who else, DRDO head!!!!)!!!!

But Modi govt is the dumbest in the world!!!! They are giving 118 fresh orders to Arjun mk2!!!!, We all know Modi is a fast guy. SO why he didnot ask for immediate closure of Arjun line and wasting public money on it?

Foreign guns, made in India | idrw.org

But then why the above article in THE WEEK says that,"new 118 Arjun mk2 orders which were kept pending for years and promptly issued by Modi government bringing smiles to the scientist face".

Ohhhh!!!! THE WEEK guy is ignorant perhaps , He did not have the intelligence to know that it was a token order to " just to keep the knowledge intact from a dead project"!!!!!

But a few guys here who sit in cabinet meetings to seems to know that it was a "token order" to keep the knowledge intact from a dead project!!!!

It is good to have such knowledgeable posters among ourselves to know what is a dead product and what is a good product!!!

Pandora bro. Please clarify with Saruav jha, "why this dead ARJUN project is being kept alive?"

Sure bro....Actually I was expecting more questions from you regarding ammunations ,armour etc etc

 

[Kunal Biswas]

As far as Armour is concern is fine, And we know the MK2 rounds will be available also ..

What is interesting is there any plans for MK3 based on improvement over MK2, This was mentioned in 2012 by Gen V.K Singh and his successor..

 

[Punya Pratap]

As far as Armour is concern is fine, And we know the MK2 rounds will be available also ..

What is interesting is there any plans for MK3 based on improvement over MK2, This was mentioned in 2012 by Gen V.K Singh and his successor..

Could you please check with Saurabh Jha regarding the Mk3 when he interviews CVRDE chief??

 

[ersakthivel]

Sure bro....Actually I was expecting more questions from you regarding ammunations ,armour etc etc

That was just for fun . I know Saurav jha will quit defence reporting if we ask such" intelligent questions".

real questions are,

1. Did the Army ever asked CVRDE to change the 120 mm rifle gun in Arjun to 125 mm smooth bore (as it is present in T-90)?

2. if the army asks for such a change in future for commonality of ammo , Is it doable?

3. Does the army prefer the rifled bore or smooth bore?

4. What is the highest penetration APFDS round developed for arjun so far?

5.is there any NERA development going on for Arjun?


6. Has the Indian Army got any plan to stanardize all the bridging platforms to 70 ton capable to facilitate smooth movement of Arjun through out india even in areas that have 40 ton british era bridge?

7. Is it true that the T-90 encounters the same handicap of not being able to cross the 40 ton british era bridges and defensive canals and bridges network in punjab without the help of bridging equipment , as it too weighs well above the 40 ton weight of T-90?

8. if so then why many unnamed army officers are persistently quoted by many indian defence journos with quotes like," T-90 can cross those 40 ton british era bridges without the support of bridging equipment while Arjun can't"?

9.Is the Modi government going to stop with just 118 ordfers for Arjun mk2?

10. once those arjun mk2s that enters service proves themselves to army, Will a 500 plus follow on orders will be given to Arjun mk2 , so that many imported components can be replaced with locally produced components to bring down the cost of Arjun?

11. Is there any plan to engage private sector into Arjun production?

12. Will the future FMBT plans go for an entirely new platform , or they will be further Arjun iterations?

13. has the army confided the CVRDE with any proposed FMBT specs like no of crew men, unmanned turret, and weight till date?

14.Does the IA wants the higher range HESH shots enabled by superior range of the Arjun rifled gun in FMBT? Or it will go for smooth bore like others?

15.Since the APFSDS rounds are all essentially sub caliber is there any practical gain in changing the proven 120 mm rifled gun of Arjun to 125 mm smooth bore?

16. Is there any plans to go for a higher chamber pressure more powerful gun of the rifled bore with 125 mm bore in future versions of Arjun or FMBT?

That too when the MOD report to parliament clearly says that with the 120 mm rifled gun the Arjun has better performance specs over 125 mm smooth bore T-90. So is has the army indicated any preference for smooth bore on Arjun or FMBT concepts?

Please ask these questions to jha and post his answers here.

Thanks.

 

[power_monger]

Wow, Thats a lot of questions. Even i am intrested in this Riffled gun vs smoothbore question. Why has army never any issues on this if elsewhere in the world,smoothbore gun is prefferred.
I am genuinly waiting for the answer.

 

[power_monger]

One more question, Is the 1500 HP engine completly ready?

 

[Pandora]

Thanks alot to all members @Kunal Biswas, @ersakthivel @Punya Pratap @ power_monger . Mail sent

 

[Pandora]

One more question, Is the 1500 HP engine completly ready?

Yep added bro.....Actually even I also wanted to ask same question :thumb:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Dynamic Passive Armour = Non Explosive Reactive Armour

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Arjun MK2 use NERA besides ERA ..

5.is there any NERA development going on for Arjun?

 

[Punya Pratap]

Thanks alot to all members @Kunal Biswas, @ersakthivel @Punya Pratap @ power_monger . Mail sent

Keep us posted and many thanks for taking the initiative !!

 

[sgarg]

India is capable of building excellent tanks and IFVs through local industry. It has not happened so far due to Army stonewalling and Congress regimes that saw defence deals as cash cows.

The situation will definitely change in future though BJP still faces a reluctant army.

 

[sgarg]

However whatever India has now is still enough to deal with Pakistan. So for a purely defensive posture that India has adopted, the current weapon systems are adequate.

The Ukraine conflict just showed the effectiveness of personnel carried anti-tank weapons (anti-tank missiles and rockets) that made a mince-meat of Ukrainian armour. The times have changed. The additional facts is the terrain. A war that largely happens in mountains will not need a large number of tanks and IFVs. The helicopters will be key and this issue has been attended. Indian heli fleet is growing at a very good rate.

Armour is relevant only if India wants to expand or win territory. As this is not India's thought, it is better for India to have small number of very capable tanks like Arjun, than large number of T series.

Though I agree that DRDO should come out with a lighter tank of weight less than 50 tonnes.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I don`t intend to bring in T-tank reputation in IA over this thread, But these tanks are dangerous for crew even in peace time, Arjun is safer tank both in War and Peace to operate, Some other threads where one can read and post about these T-tanks .

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http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/51979-defective-t-72-tanks.html

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/59199-indian-t-90-trouble.html

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/44522-arjun-vs-t90-mbt.html

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Weight has no issue here, The roads and bridges at border area which cannot tank Arjun weight cannot tank T-72/90 weight either, Main roads and bridges can tank more than 100tons ..

Arjuns have better mobility than all other T-tanks due to lower ground pressure, Its due to its wider tracks ..

Armour is relevant only if India wants to expand or win territory. As this is not India's thought, it is better for India to have small number of very capable tanks like Arjun, than large number of T series.

Though I agree that DRDO should come out with a lighter tank of weight less than 50 tonnes.

 

[SilentKiller]

Wow, Thats a lot of questions. Even i am intrested in this Riffled gun vs smoothbore question. Why has army never any issues on this if elsewhere in the world,smoothbore gun is prefferred.
I am genuinly waiting for the answer.

Well Sir even british went with Rifled gun for their MBT.
These are some rounds which perform better with Rifled over smooth bored and vice versa.
Sabot rounds perform much better with smooth bore and HesH/thermobaric round with Rifled.

Correct me if misstated.

 

[Dazzler]

However whatever India has now is still enough to deal with Pakistan. So for a purely defensive posture that India has adopted, the current weapon systems are adequate.

ironically, this is not the case as of now

The Ukraine conflict just showed the effectiveness of personnel carried anti-tank weapons (anti-tank missiles and rockets) that made a mince-meat of Ukrainian armour. The times have changed. The additional facts is the terrain. A war that largely happens in mountains will not need a large number of tanks and IFVs. The helicopters will be key and this issue has been attended. Indian heli fleet is growing at a very good rate.

Add other factors, such as tactics, equipment, training, awareness of weakzones of different vehicles/ mbts at certain angles etc. It is a fact that so far Ukrainians have lost t-64B and BVs in the conflict, equipped with primitive Kontakt-1 ERA and barely 450-500mm frontal composite armour, not enough against a modern ATGM offcourse. But not many BM Bulats are lost to ATGMs, rather to artillery fire or multiple HEAT hits. One such ambush had a BM Bulat with 8 RPGs from different directions yet it survived back to base.

on a side note, Chinese type-99 against HJ-8 wire guided ATGM, made no damage to the turret..

WATCH China PLA T-99 Main Battle Tank being tested against anti tank missiles. - YouTube