Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[militarysta]

as per the available info on OFB apfsds saga, IA it must address it asap, current 120 mm and 125mm penetrators wont do the job. HEAT rounds may become useful in possible long range engagements since the FCS on mbts on both sides are pretty good.

Yep, lack of any modern APFSDS in India is very visible, what is very intersting couse moucht better then present now in India APFSDS where developed decade ago in Czeh Repulic, Slovakia, Poland, Pakistan, China, Izrael, etc all in 125mm caliber... So I don't get this.
LHAAT and other munition can be "gap filter" on short time, but it's not the solution. On such distanse 1500-2300m GLATGM give no advantage over SABOt + god FCS.

IIRC, IA dont have an APS, didnt they order one from Sweden? No Shtora on T-90 so far

Well I didn't notice efen Sztora soft-kill APS on T-90S in India. What is again interesting.

 

[Dazzler]

Yep, lack of any modern APFSDS in India is very visible, what is very intersting couse moucht better then present now in India APFSDS where developed decade ago in Czeh Repulic, Slovakia, Poland, Pakistan, China, Izrael, etc all in 125mm caliber... So I don't get this.
LHAAT and other munition can be "gap filter" on short time, but it's not the solution. On such distanse 1500-2300m GLATGM give no advantage over SABOt + god FCS.






Well I didn't notice efen Sztora soft-kill APS on T-90S in India. What is again interesting.

I mentioned "possible" scenarios where mbts might see each other at longer distances, HEAT may well come into equation.

On apfsds, IMI screwed OFB big time in apfsds development, shells were below standard, several issues with propellant charge, and then IMI got blacklisted.

On shtora, IIRC, Russia wanted a separate contract signed which India refused.

 

[Shaitan]

They redesigned the box.

Here's one without the black cover.

 

[Dazzler]

front armour should be uniform but here a concern is this place..

 

[Dazzler]

double post

 

[militarysta]

On apfsds, IMI screwed OFB big time in apfsds development, shells were below standard, several issues with propellant charge, and then IMI got blacklisted.

IMHO the problem is not in IMI but in lack technology abilities now in india to produce good quality APFSDS and devleoped any quite good 125 or rifted 120mm APFSDS now.
And IMI is not a problem - for exmaple in Poland near 2001 IMI cooparate in devloped the "Pronit" round - but given by IMI penetrator have falitures and in low temperatures (circa -20 to -30 what is not super rare in Poland in winter) those penerator don't "hold" certificated penetration circa 500-540mm RHA on 2000m, so polish industry developed it's own solution and now "ZPS Pionki" factory have 125mm APFSDS whit meybe not super penetration but it's good quality ammo, and it's definetly better then previous ex-soviet ammo, or first "Pronit" whit falitures.

520mm RHA penetration in Poland is given for ex Soviet norm - so more then 75% APFSDS must pass sucht value after hit stack of the steel plates, in more "soft" NATO norm (50%) it will be circa 560mm RHA at 2000m.

 

[Shaitan]

front armour should be uniform but here a concern is this place..

Yes.

They should lift it up like in the old prototype

 

[Dazzler]

IMHO the problem is not in IMI but in lack technology abilities now in india to produce good quality APFSDS and devleoped any quite good 125 or rifted 120mm APFSDS now.
And IMI is not a problem - for exmaple in Poland near 2001 IMI cooparate in devloped the "Pronit" round - but given by IMI penetrator have falitures and in low temperatures (circa -20 to -30 what is not super rare in Poland in winter) those penerator don't "hold" certificated penetration circa 500-540mm RHA on 2000m, so polish industry developed it's own solution and now "ZPS Pionki" factory have 125mm APFSDS whit meybe not super penetration but it's good quality ammo, and it's definetly better then previous ex-soviet ammo, or first "Pronit" whit falitures.

520mm RHA penetration in Poland is given for ex Soviet norm - so more then 75% APFSDS must pass sucht value after hit stack of the steel plates, in more "soft" NATO norm (50%) it will be circa 560mm RHA at 2000m.

Honestly, i knda find it hard to believe, they can make an mbt but not an appropriate apfsds, though i know that making one can consume a lot of technological resources and is a complex science in itself but still..

 

[militarysta]

Honestly, i knda find it hard to believe, they can make an mbt but not an appropriate apfsds, though i know that making one can consume a lot of technological resources and is a complex science in itself but still..

Nor do I. Propably it some developemnt structure and DRDO problem.
Developed maybe not brillant but just good APFSDS 125mm was possible in: Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Israel, Pakista, China, etc So why it shoud be impossible in India?

 

[Dazzler]

Yes.

They should lift it up like in the old prototype

thats more appropriate, the composite armour cover seems uniform but sigh! they changed the pattern..

 

[Shaitan]

Mark 3 will be amazing....

 

[Dazzler]

Nor do I. Propably it some developemnt structure and DRDO problem.
Developed maybe not brillant but just good APFSDS 125mm was possible in: Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Israel, Pakista, China, etc So why it shoud be impossible in India?

Mystery !

They could have gone with Brits for their CHARM series for Arjun's Rifled gun, though CHARM is not the best around but shows much better penetration values than current OFB Apfsds. 320 mm at 0 deg is just not enough

 

[Shaitan]

Saya, I am horribly confused now.

In the green box, there seems to be a removable cap (highlighted in red)

Which is also present in this new ERA/Housing (highlighted in red)

Which means whatever was there in the green box will be there in the new housing, so it isn't gone permanently. If it's part of LAHAT FCS, it should be a laser designator and the small window is for the optics. IIRC, Merkava 4 designates Lahat from gunner's main sight while other tanks that fire Lahat depend on third party designation. There are some other perplexing design choices:-

-The empty space below the new housing. The housing just flattens out instead of completing the slope leaving a few inches of exposed areas.. Are they going to fit something else there ?

- The missing modules below the gunners sight and the on the gun mantle. Hopefully we should see them in the coming months.

This thing was obviously cleaved up quickly.

It was only a month ago they were showing the box housing in republic day.

 

[Dazzler]

This thing was obviously cleaved up quickly.

It was only a month ago they were showing the box housing in republic day.

it seems to be for the parade only, looks like a hollow metal cavity, it is filling the space earlier covered by the box as you mentioned, to make it streamlined with K-5 ERA plates.

 

[Shaitan]

it seems to be for the parade only, looks like a hollow metal cavity, it is filling the space earlier covered by the box as you mentioned, to make it streamlined with K-5 ERA plates.

That box housing, armor wasn't for parades.

I doubt the new housing is hollow cavity or will be.

Even the box armor covering the target acquisition system for LAHAT was thick armor.

 

[Dazzler]

That box housing, armor wasn't for parades.

I doubt the new housing is hollow cavity or will be.

Even the box armor covering the target acquisition system for LAHAT was thick armor.

* i was talking about the arrow shaped hollow cavity streamlined with side ERA cover shown in parade, not the box. The ERA should also be uniform to remain effective, example is T-90S, no space in ERA cavity which gives good protection.

* If the arrow shape cavity contains composite armour, it may be damaged if an ERA plate explodes. Better to cover that space with ERA.

* If the box contains guidance equipment for lahat atgm, it is another weakness, rather a makeshift arrangement, one decent penetrator hit can disable the lahat guidance unit. Such equipment should be placed inside the turret.

 

[Shaitan]

* i was talking about the arrow shaped hollow cavity streamlined with side ERA cover shown in parade, not the box.

Where is that?

Are you talking about the storage boxes on the side?

 

[Shaitan]

In the republic day parade, it had the box too.

For this expo, they redesigned the armor housing.

 

[Shaitan]

* If the box contains guidance equipment for lahat atgm, it is another weakness, rather a makeshift arrangement, one decent penetrator hit can disable the lahat guidance unit. Such equipment should be placed inside the turret.

I see what you're saying now.*

 

[Dazzler]

Where is that?

Are you talking about the storage boxes on the side?

on the right side..