Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) Mark II

[vampyrbladez]

Where will you use heavy tanks in India? Which terrain is fit for heavy tanks? Himalayan terrain of Kashmir & Arunachal? Or marshland of Gujarat? Or desert if Rajasthan? Only Bangladesh boundary is fit for heavy tanks.

Plains of Punjab, Ladakh valley, deserts of Rajasthan, etc. This beast can take a point blank shot of T 72 FSAPDS ammo to it's Kanchan Armor.

 

[jackprince]

Indian terrain is highly varying with most of the fighting zones being either mountains, deserts, swamps or snowfall zone. Abrams or its type of heavy tanks are unfit to be used in such terrains. T90 is actually the best tank with the right balance of weight and fuel consumption to be used in such terrain.

We don't need Arjun tank at all for Indian condition. India has 100% indigenisation for T90 tanks with every part being made in India. It is as good as any indigenous tank except that it can't be exported.

Do you even have any idea about tanks and its mechanics? Arjun has lesser ground pressure per sq. Inch than even T-90. Which means Arjun can go anywhere T-90 can. The Abrahams and Merkavas which have about same weight of Arjun, rule the deserts of middle east. Arjun too can rule the desert of Rajasthan as well as plains of Punjab. The only problem at Punjab can be fording canals and waterbodies. But, DRDO has developed 70 Tonnage carrying capacity portable bridges which can easily take Arjun.

I wont say Ladakh, as deploying there might be bit problem as in case of intense hostility, I doubt IAF will land C-17s there. But beforehand, Arjun can easily be transported there by C-17s

Anyhow, in the mountainous terrain of Himalayas, neither T-90 nor T-72 can be effectively used. We need light tanks for that role, and India appears to have shelved that project.

I urge you to learn first, before arguing.

 

[sayareakd]

Watch this..


Its the same old story. IA is comparing Arjun with T90 in terms of maintenance cost and spares. They want it to be as cheap as T90 with the numbers in 100. DRDO on other hand is asking for numbers to bring down the cost factor. There were some issues regarding firing, stabilization, protection and transportation. But they have been solved and as of now, only two issue is plaguing it. Weight and cost. DRDO is quiet sure of no issue with transportation due to its weight, but IA is apprehensive as usual.

Arjun dont kick their back, but T90s does.

 

[Enquirer]

Where will you use heavy tanks in India? Which terrain is fit for heavy tanks? Himalayan terrain of Kashmir & Arunachal? Or marshland of Gujarat? Or desert if Rajasthan? Only Bangladesh boundary is fit for heavy tanks.

Arjun was supposed to be best suited for the deserts of Rajasthan - supposedly better suited than T90s

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Do you even have any idea about tanks and its mechanics? Arjun has lesser ground pressure per sq. Inch than even T-90. Which means Arjun can go anywhere T-90 can. The Abrahams and Merkavas which have about same weight of Arjun, rule the deserts of middle east. Arjun too can rule the desert of Rajasthan as well as plains of Punjab. The only problem at Punjab can be fording canals and waterbodies. But, DRDO has developed 70 Tonnage carrying capacity portable bridges which can easily take Arjun.

I wont say Ladakh, as deploying there might be bit problem as in case of intense hostility, I doubt IAF will land C-17s there. But beforehand, Arjun can easily be transported there by C-17s

Anyhow, in the mountainous terrain of Himalayas, neither T-90 nor T-72 can be effectively used. We need light tanks for that role, and India appears to have shelved that project.

I urge you to learn first, before arguing.

I agree that it was a mistake to say that Arjun is unfit for Rajasthan. But the other terrain of Himalaya or marshland of Gujarat is not a fit option for Arjun.

I urge you to think properly and answer the crux of the argument- what is the need to develop a new MBT when India can make T90 and T72 indigenously? Does the desert of Rajasthan & Bangladesh border deserve development of a new tank?

Being able to withstand APFSD is not an excuse to develop a new tank altogether. A balance of mobility, armour and logistics have to be considered. T72 is a light tank and can fight in terrain of Himalaya while T90 is more armoured for other regions. T90 has been fit with ERA armour by India. So, it is no pushover

Arjun was supposed to be best suited for the deserts of Rajasthan - supposedly better suited than T90s

True, desert of Rajasthan is indeed good terrain for Arjun.

 

[Enquirer]

I agree that it was a mistake to say that Arjun is unfit for Rajasthan. But the other terrain of Himalaya or marshland of Gujarat is not a fit option for Arjun.

I urge you to think properly and answer the crux of the argument- what is the need to develop a new MBT when India can make T90 and T72 indigenously? Does the desert of Rajasthan & Bangladesh border deserve development of a new tank?

Being able to withstand APFSD is not an excuse to develop a new tank altogether. A balance of mobility, armour and logistics have to be considered. T72 is a light tank and can fight in terrain of Himalaya while T90 is more armoured for other regions. T90 has been fit with ERA armour by India. So, it is no pushover


True, desert of Rajasthan is indeed good terrain for Arjun.

Wars are normally won by building equipment to suit the terrain/environment. World war II is replete with examples of such equipment. There's nothing wrong with having different types of tanks for different regions. Logistical problem would only arise if different types of equipment (for the same role) existed in the same regiment.

Also, no one is asking for 'development'. It's already developed...the question is over 'deployment'.
In all probability Arjuns WILL be deployed in large numbers in the desert region.

(Maybe the reason why India doesn't do a thrust via the Thar desert is because it lacked the appropriate equipment!)

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Wars are normally won by building equipment to suit the terrain/environment. World war II is replete with examples of such equipment. There's nothing wrong with having different types of tanks for different regions. Logistical problem would only arise if different types of equipment (for the same role) existed in the same regiment.

Also, no one is asking for 'development'. It's already developed...the question is over 'deployment'.
In all probability Arjuns WILL be deployed in large numbers in the desert region.

(Maybe the reason why India doesn't do a thrust via the Thar desert is because it lacked the appropriate equipment!)

No, Arjun doesn't have many items like 1500HP engine. This is imported from MTU. On addition, the ammunition for arjun also have to be developed as they are different from T90 ones. So, there is a need for development too.

About logistics, there are multiple problem-
1) different ammunition requirement which makes it necessary to manufacture 2 types of ammunition- one for T90/T72 and other for Arjun
2) War requires mass manufacturing of equipment in lakhs. So, the logistics problem does arise if the production has to be in different models. It is easier to produce one single model by scaling up instead of manufacturing multiple models as the amount of machinery, spares and skillset will have to be diversified. Wars require quick replacement of damaged equipment by manufacturing and that will be impeded by having to make multiple models

 

[Enquirer]

No, Arjun doesn't have many items like 1500HP engine. This is imported from MTU. On addition, the ammunition for arjun also have to be developed as they are different from T90 ones. So, there is a need for development too.

About logistics, there are multiple problem-
1) different ammunition requirement which makes it necessary to manufacture 2 types of ammunition- one for T90/T72 and other for Arjun
2) War requires mass manufacturing of equipment in lakhs. So, the logistics problem does arise if the production has to be in different models. It is easier to produce one single model by scaling up instead of manufacturing multiple models as the amount of machinery, spares and skillset will have to be diversified. Wars require quick replacement of damaged equipment by manufacturing and that will be impeded by having to make multiple models

Ammo is required in various calibers anyways (155mm, 130mm, 120mm, 125mm)....and each type in 100s of 1000s. So it won't be just one facility doing it but multiple facilities. It's not an issue for each facility to make diff calibers. What use is a caliber, if the tank is not effective in a terrain.
As I said, as long as several regiments in the same region use similar type....then there's no logistical problem!
But if offensive thrusts via Thar (say) requires both T90 & Arjun tanks, then the logistics could be a
nightmare.
Also, 'one size fits all' is a disaster strategy...especially when Indian borders have varied terrain.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Ammo is required in various calibers anyways (155mm, 130mm, 120mm, 125mm)....and each type in 100s of 1000s. So it won't be just one facility doing it but multiple facilities. It's not an issue for each facility to make diff calibers. What use is a caliber, if the tank is not effective in a terrain.
As I said, as long as several regiments in the same region use similar type....then there's no logistical problem!
But if offensive thrusts via Thar (say) requires both T90 & Arjun tanks, then the logistics could be a
nightmare.
Also, 'one size fits all' is a disaster strategy...especially when Indian borders have varied terrain.

In offensive thrust, the tanks will eventually have to regroup from across divisions in enemy territory. So, the thrust will only be for limited stretch of land. Then eventually it will be same patch for all tanks. In addition, we must also consider deployment across Pakistan and Indian ocean too.

The modern warfare is mostly based on long range attacks like missile, airforce, navy and any real offensive has to be from the long range strikes, not tanks. Tanks are only to capture territory once the enemy has been softened. So, the diversity is required in airforce, missile and ships. Diversity of equipment in army is only one more logistical problem

 

[jackprince]

I agree that it was a mistake to say that Arjun is unfit for Rajasthan. But the other terrain of Himalaya or marshland of Gujarat is not a fit option for Arjun.

I urge you to think properly and answer the crux of the argument- what is the need to develop a new MBT when India can make T90 and T72 indigenously? Does the desert of Rajasthan & Bangladesh border deserve development of a new tank?

Being able to withstand APFSD is not an excuse to develop a new tank altogether. A balance of mobility, armour and logistics have to be considered. T72 is a light tank and can fight in terrain of Himalaya while T90 is more armoured for other regions. T90 has been fit with ERA armour by India. So, it is no pushover


True, desert of Rajasthan is indeed good terrain for Arjun.

In offensive thrust, the tanks will eventually have to regroup from across divisions in enemy territory. So, the thrust will only be for limited stretch of land. Then eventually it will be same patch for all tanks. In addition, we must also consider deployment across Pakistan and Indian ocean too.

The modern warfare is mostly based on long range attacks like missile, airforce, navy and any real offensive has to be from the long range strikes, not tanks. Tanks are only to capture territory once the enemy has been softened. So, the diversity is required in airforce, missile and ships. Diversity of equipment in army is only one more logistical problem

You are so naive. A war - not any skirmish, but a war - is won by holding territory. And that is the most important aspect of winning a war. For holding a hostile territory, the armour is the most important aspect. The armour of Arjun had withstood direct hit of APFSDS which means it can shrug off most RPG attacks or even recoilless rifle shots by likely guerrilla soldiers of enemy. And that is invaluable for controlling a captured area.

However, modern warfare between more or less evenly matched armies does not end with missiles and aircrafts. The novices have been given that idea coz of recent adventures of US armies in middle east. In middle east western powers employed humungous war machine upon nations with little ability to withstand such onslaught. But, the same did not work in Syria and if you have observed the development in Syria, you would have known that the war of Syria is being fought onnthe ground where tanks and armoured vehicles are playing huge role.

Long range strikes work when no specific agenda of holding ground is there. But, not any number of airstrikes or missile strikes have ever won anyone a war. A well disciplined army goes to the ground and scatter so that missiles dont find stationary targets and even a decent amount of AAD can endanger strike aircrafts. The only solid solution is moving in with infantry with armour in support.

Now, T90 is a tank developed for Europe and when it is not unsuitable for desert, it neither is optimised for the possible terrain of conflicts in Indian context. In fact, it is DRDO that had to jurry rig aircooler into T90 for the crew to have bit of comfort in the blazing hot Thar. Arjun is specially made for India. A wannabe super power dont purchase basic weapon systems like tanks from foreign nations in bulk. If China did so, today world would not have the headache China has become.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

You are so naive. A war - not any skirmish, but a war - is won by holding territory. And that is the most important aspect of winning a war. For holding a hostile territory, the armour is the most important aspect. The armour of Arjun had withstood direct hit of APFSDS which means it can shrug off most RPG attacks or even recoilless rifle shots by likely guerrilla soldiers of enemy. And that is invaluable for controlling a captured area.

Who told you that Arjun can withstand ATGM? RPG with similar penetration warhead as ATGM will destroy tanks. Only country made RPG with pipe launchers and cheap firework warhead can be defeated by tanks. No tank,not Arjun or Abrams can withstand ATGM. Maybe some ATGM at specific spots can be withstood but not at all spots. So, any tank can be taken down by some slipper wearing idiot with ATGM or by helicopters.

This is why I said that heavy armour is not really helpful in modern warfare. Even territory is controlled with the help of aerial support,not by grpund based armour.

However, modern warfare between more or less evenly matched armies does not end with missiles and aircrafts. The novices have been given that idea coz of recent adventures of US armies in middle east. In middle east western powers employed humungous war machine upon nations with little ability to withstand such onslaught. But, the same did not work in Syria and if you have observed the development in Syria, you would have known that the war of Syria is being fought onnthe ground where tanks and armoured vehicles are playing huge role.

Are you saying that India is evenly matched with Pakistan? Are you serious?

Also,what USA is doing in Syria, Afghanistan etc is not serious warfare but limited war. In full war, the enemy population will be pushed or wiped out. This is not done in Syria or anywhere else. The only objectives of Syrian war is to weaken Syria which was hostile to USA and to obtain more security for Israel along with corridor for Qatar gas into Europe. Comparing Syrian war to a full war between India-Pakistan is a joke. India-Pakistan war will be genocidal and not like Syria.

Long range strikes work when no specific agenda of holding ground is there. But, not any number of airstrikes or missile strikes have ever won anyone a war. A well disciplined army goes to the ground and scatter so that missiles dont find stationary targets and even a decent amount of AAD can endanger strike aircrafts. The only solid solution is moving in with infantry with armour in support.

Long range strikes are meant to destroy infrastructure and logistics. It is not that soldiers feed from photosynthesis or fight with their willpower. The food and equipment needed for soldiers are destroyed by long range strike. Even if soldiers survive, they will eventually starve to death.

The first target for strikes will be air defence sites (radar, launchers etc) and sites of missile launchers. So, by taking these out, the further actions become easier.

Your idea of moving with infantry is retarded as infantry can't travel for hundreds of kilometers without proper logistics in place and enemy will not allow to establish our logistics in their territory. So, only way is to first strike enemy by long range strike and then move in ground forces.

Now, T90 is a tank developed for Europe and when it is not unsuitable for desert, it neither is optimised for the possible terrain of conflicts in Indian context. In fact, it is DRDO that had to jurry rig aircooler into T90 for the crew to have bit of comfort in the blazing hot Thar. Arjun is specially made for India. A wannabe super power dont purchase basic weapon systems like tanks from foreign nations in bulk. If China did so, today world would not have the headache China has become.

India doesn't purchase T90 from Russia. India has already purchased the design. Now it can manufacture it freely. India has made indigenous armour, engine and firong control for it. It is manufactured fully in India without any imports. So, there is hardly anything to worry about. China also uses Russian tanks with some modifications. The only difference is that China changes the name of tanks while India keeps Russian names as is by adding some postfix like MS, Bhishma etc.

 

[jackprince]

Who told you that Arjun can withstand ATGM? RPG with similar penetration warhead as ATGM will destroy tanks. Only country made RPG with pipe launchers and cheap firework warhead can be defeated by tanks. No tank,not Arjun or Abrams can withstand ATGM. Maybe some ATGM at specific spots can be withstood but not at all spots. So, any tank can be taken down by some slipper wearing idiot with ATGM or by helicopters.

This is why I said that heavy armour is not really helpful in modern warfare. Even territory is controlled with the help of aerial support,not by grpund based armour.


Are you saying that India is evenly matched with Pakistan? Are you serious?

Also,what USA is doing in Syria, Afghanistan etc is not serious warfare but limited war. In full war, the enemy population will be pushed or wiped out. This is not done in Syria or anywhere else. The only objectives of Syrian war is to weaken Syria which was hostile to USA and to obtain more security for Israel along with corridor for Qatar gas into Europe. Comparing Syrian war to a full war between India-Pakistan is a joke. India-Pakistan war will be genocidal and not like Syria.


Long range strikes are meant to destroy infrastructure and logistics. It is not that soldiers feed from photosynthesis or fight with their willpower. The food and equipment needed for soldiers are destroyed by long range strike. Even if soldiers survive, they will eventually starve to death.

The first target for strikes will be air defence sites (radar, launchers etc) and sites of missile launchers. So, by taking these out, the further actions become easier.

Your idea of moving with infantry is retarded as infantry can't travel for hundreds of kilometers without proper logistics in place and enemy will not allow to establish our logistics in their territory. So, only way is to first strike enemy by long range strike and then move in ground forces.

India doesn't purchase T90 from Russia. India has already purchased the design. Now it can manufacture it freely. India has made indigenous armour, engine and firong control for it. It is manufactured fully in India without any imports. So, there is hardly anything to worry about. China also uses Russian tanks with some modifications. The only difference is that China changes the name of tanks while India keeps Russian names as is by adding some postfix like MS, Bhishma etc.

Are you even educated?
Do you even know what ATGM is? You comparecan ATGM with an RPG, seriously? Do you know anything about Composite armour like Kanchan? How many ATGM do you see being used in most contested guerrilla warfares like in Syria or Ukraine?

Do you even have any idea how a tank battle happens? Do you think close Air defence systmes like Tunguska, Bihos are for show? Or the MANPADs? Do you have anyaidea how a well prepared thrust of armoured column protected by mobile AD systems can withstand heliborne attacks?

You think that if a war breaks out with either Porkies or china India would be able to dominate the sky uncontested? Do you even know the capabilities of our enemies?

You think without putting boots in the ground you can truly win a war decisively? You think our doctrines does not allow for logistical chain in the course of eventuality?

But then you believe India has 'purchased' designs of T90. You think Type 99 is based on russian designs. You are a pathologically ignorant person who would not learn.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Are you even educated?
Do you even know what ATGM is? You comparecan ATGM with an RPG, seriously? Do you know anything about Composite armour like Kanchan? How many ATGM do you see being used in most contested guerrilla warfares like in Syria or Ukraine?

Do you even have any idea how a tank battle happens? Do you think close Air defence systmes like Tunguska, Bihos are for show? Or the MANPADs? Do you have anyaidea how a well prepared thrust of armoured column protected by mobile AD systems can withstand heliborne attacks?

You think that if a war breaks out with either Porkies or china India would be able to dominate the sky uncontested? Do you even know the capabilities of our enemies?

You think without putting boots in the ground you can truly win a war decisively? You think our doctrines does not allow for logistical chain in the course of eventuality?

But then you believe India has 'purchased' designs of T90. You think Type 99 is based on russian designs. You are a pathologically ignorant person who would not learn.

You seem like a retard with high ego. You can't even read my posts properly and speak bullshit.

How many times should I tell you that Syria and Ukraine are not full war but proxy war. Are you mentally unsound that you can't understand this?

Do you know that Pakistan makes its own 2nd generation ATGM? So, why are we speaking of RPG? Who is going to use RPG when there is ATGM available?

Who is going to fight with close air defence? Why are you speaking of helicopter attack when I am clearly speaking of plane attack? The close AD is useless against planes.

Are you saying that Pakistan is capable of defending its skies or contesting with Indian air power? You must be high on drugs if you really think this way. India has the capability to mass manufacture fighter jets like Su30 and will soon get Kaveri engine powered Tejas whereas Pakistan has nothing at all. From where will it get anything to fight with? India has far advanced capabilities in SAM and BMD and Pakistan will have no chance of even standing for 2 weeks.

China and India is different issue but the war between India and China is highly unlikely as there is no meaningful objectives which necessitate large sacrifice of population.

By the way, I never said that ground force is unnecessary but that they are not the major firepower.

India has indeed purchased T90 design and there is nothing to be surprised of here unless you are a retard

 

[jackprince]

You seem like a retard with high ego. You can't even read my posts properly and speak bullshit.

How many times should I tell you that Syria and Ukraine are not full war but proxy war. Are you mentally unsound that you can't understand this?

Do you know that Pakistan makes its own 2nd generation ATGM? So, why are we speaking of RPG? Who is going to use RPG when there is ATGM available?

Who is going to fight with close air defence? Why are you speaking of helicopter attack when I am clearly speaking of plane attack? The close AD is useless against planes.

Are you saying that Pakistan is capable of defending its skies or contesting with Indian air power? You must be high on drugs if you really think this way. India has the capability to mass manufacture fighter jets like Su30 and will soon get Kaveri engine powered Tejas whereas Pakistan has nothing at all. From where will it get anything to fight with? India has far advanced capabilities in SAM and BMD and Pakistan will have no chance of even standing for 2 weeks.

China and India is different issue but the war between India and China is highly unlikely as there is no meaningful objectives which necessitate large sacrifice of population.

By the way, I never said that ground force is unnecessary but that they are not the major firepower.

India has indeed purchased T90 design and there is nothing to be surprised of here unless you are a retard

You don't even know the difference between purchase of design and obtaining licence to build. In a licence to build, India cannot even put screw different than the prescribed design. No modification, no enhancement. For every additional enhancement, India has to take permission from Russiand and pay fees for that.

Only a total and utter idiot discount ground forces as 'not major fire power'. I wonder why I even bother.

Unlikely does not mean never. A military always enjoys the better time when they have prepared for the worst. And, the question here is not war between India and China, but how China has built its own capabilities because it rabidly supported its own industries. Read how the Chinese built there own indigenous defence industry where they are mass producing Tanks, fighter aircrafts, transport aircrafts, helicopters, nuclear submarines and now even plans to build nuclear aircraft carriers.

About AAD capabilities of Pakistan. Again read up. Pakistan has substantial AAD capabilities. Mostly Chinese, but none knows how capable they would be. But, China can easily poke their nose and create a No-flying Zone. If China wants to deny India the sky, IAF would have tough fight in its hand and will not be able to dedicate in the role of strike as every strike mission flys under cover of fighters. What would Army do then? Wait till the fight for the sky is over?

Btw, who told you that ATGM is an one-shot-one-kill weapon? That too a 2nd Generation ATGM? Do you know why javelin, spike and our Nag are top attack ATGM? Because, side armour of a MBT is tougher to defeat. Also, having ATGM tech doesn't mean it is cheaper to make than RPGs. Any how Bhakta Shikan or HJ-8 is 1970s tech and cannot beat either T90 or Arjun's armour . Also it is Wire-guided which means the operators will have to remain in sight of the tank to guide it to the tank. Does not give much smiles to the operators when the missile fails to disable the Tank.

Have you followed the war at either Syria or Ukraine? These two cases are the classic study of how modern day ground warfare would take place in near future. The set piece battles in open fields may be there, but the city battles would mostvlikely be a norm if India invades Pakistan.


My ego is not big. neither is y knowledge. But in my being member of this forum for over decade, I have been taught to learn first and then speak. Uppity morons like you who think they have learnt everything by watching some videos and reading excerpts irk me. You are so pathetic that I shiver to think how people around must be feeling.

You don't have basic knowledge about anything and try throwing big words to hide your lack wisdom. If Raga were not alive, I would say you are his incarnation .

 

[binayak95]

You don't even know the difference between purchase of design and obtaining licence to build. In a licence to build, India cannot even put screw different than the prescribed design. No modification, no enhancement. For every additional enhancement, India has to take permission from Russiand and pay fees for that.

Only a total and utter idiot discount ground forces as 'not major fire power'. I wonder why I even bother.

Unlikely does not mean never. A military always enjoys the better time when they have prepared for the worst. And, the question here is not war between India and China, but how China has built its own capabilities because it rabidly supported its own industries. Read how the Chinese built there own indigenous defence industry where they are mass producing Tanks, fighter aircrafts, transport aircrafts, helicopters, nuclear submarines and now even plans to build nuclear aircraft carriers.

About AAD capabilities of Pakistan. Again read up. Pakistan has substantial AAD capabilities. Mostly Chinese, but none knows how capable they would be. But, China can easily poke their nose and create a No-flying Zone. If China wants to deny India the sky, IAF would have tough fight in its hand and will not be able to dedicate in the role of strike as every strike mission flys under cover of fighters. What would Army do then? Wait till the fight for the sky is over?

Btw, who told you that ATGM is an one-shot-one-kill weapon? That too a 2nd Generation ATGM? Do you know why javelin, spike and our Nag are top attack ATGM? Because, side armour of a MBT is tougher to defeat. Also, having ATGM tech doesn't mean it is cheaper to make than RPGs. Any how Bhakta Shikan or HJ-8 is 1970s tech and cannot beat either T90 or Arjun's armour . Also it is Wire-guided which means the operators will have to remain in sight of the tank to guide it to the tank. Does not give much smiles to the operators when the missile fails to disable the Tank.

Have you followed the war at either Syria or Ukraine? These two cases are the classic study of how modern day ground warfare would take place in near future. The set piece battles in open fields may be there, but the city battles would mostvlikely be a norm if India invades Pakistan.


My ego is not big. neither is y knowledge. But in my being member of this forum for over decade, I have been taught to learn first and then speak. Uppity morons like you who think they have learnt everything by watching some videos and reading excerpts irk me. You are so pathetic that I shiver to think how people around must be feeling.

You don't have basic knowledge about anything and try throwing big words to hide your lack wisdom. If Raga were not alive, I would say you are his incarnation .

Dude, dont bother. That idiot is on my block list for a reason. This is the retard's Nth account. Ignore.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

You don't even know the difference between purchase of design and obtaining licence to build. In a licence to build, India cannot even put screw different than the prescribed design. No modification, no enhancement. For every additional enhancement, India has to take permission from Russiand and pay fees for that.

I know the difference. Indian agreement with Russia is that Indian PSU can modify the tank but but private company. So, the design is essentially purchased. Stop acting as know it all. Do you have any reason to claim that there is a problem with India modifying T90? If yes, then explain how India put its own fire controls, engine, armour etc on T90

Only a total and utter idiot discount ground forces as 'not major fire power'. I wonder why I even bothe

Only a mentally unsound person gives over importance to ground forces. Ground forces are most important for defensive reason. Offense needs air power and naval power.

About AAD capabilities of Pakistan. Again read up. Pakistan has substantial AAD capabilities. Mostly Chinese, but none knows how capable they would be. But, China can easily poke their nose and create a No-flying Zone. If China wants to deny India the sky, IAF would have tough fight in its hand and will not be able to dedicate in the role of strike as every strike mission flys under cover of fighters. What would Army do then? Wait till the fight for the sky is over?

Are you some super genius retard? Dis I say that India doesn't need tanks? I am only saying that India doesn't need Arjun heavy tanks as T90 is good enough. Why is that you have a problem with T90? T90 tank combined with air power is what will be used to give initial thrust. Just read how Iraq war 1990-1 took place. That is how one must try to invade. But one need not wait till enemy airspace is fully conquered. After some initial strikes, one must make a push from ground armour and choppers. But such an action doesn't need arjun tank. There is nothing deficient with T90 that makes this a difficult process. ATGM like Baktar Shikan can Pierce Arjun as well as T90 armour. We must expect some loss while using either tank. So, making a new tank just for the sake of it serves little purpose.

Btw, who told you that ATGM is an one-shot-one-kill weapon? That too a 2nd Generation ATGM? Do you know why javelin, spike and our Nag are top attack ATGM? Because, side armour of a MBT is tougher to defeat. Also, having ATGM tech doesn't mean it is cheaper to make than RPGs. Any how Bhakta Shikan or HJ-8 is 1970s tech and cannot beat either T90 or Arjun's armour . Also it is Wire-guided which means the operators will have to remain in sight of the tank to guide it to the tank. Does not give much smiles to the operators when the missile fails to disable the Tank.

Pakistani ATGM is wire guided and that means it is dead accurate as long as the sights are kept focused. So, the ATGM can be made to hit any part of the tank. Since Pakistan will have to defend its territory at any cost, it will not mind losing a few lakh soldiers in such operations. The question is whether you are willing to lose 1 tank for 1 enemy soldier. The enemy soldier can hide pretty much every where - in building, in mountains etc and fire at will as the battlefield is in enemy territory.

Hj-8 is 1980s tech and developed to combat latest USA armour of Abrams tank. It is capable of penetrating 800 mm RHA which is a very formidable penetration. The ATGM can destroy Arjun as well as T90. So, it doesn't matter whether T90 is used or Arjun.

Have you followed the war at either Syria or Ukraine? These two cases are the classic study of how modern day ground warfare would take place in near future. The set piece battles in open fields may be there, but the city battles would mostvlikely be a norm if India invades Pakistan

Why will India fight like in SYRIA? India will simply cut off supply to cities and make them come out or starve to death. In Syria, they were not willing to do this as the war was of limited scale.

Dude, dont bother. That idiot is on my block list for a reason. This is the retard's Nth account. Ignore.

Even you moron are someone I try to ignore but you simply are excruciatingly annoying. You scumbag act as if you know everything but simply incapable of talking logically when questioned. Then you end up calling others as retards for questioning. It is like a pig calling others filthy.

 

[jackprince]

I know the difference. Indian agreement with Russia is that Indian PSU can modify the tank but but private company. So, the design is essentially purchased. Stop acting as know it all. Do you have any reason to claim that there is a problem with India modifying T90? If yes, then explain how India put its own fire controls, engine, armour etc on T90


Only a mentally unsound person gives over importance to ground forces. Ground forces are most important for defensive reason. Offense needs air power and naval power.


Are you some super genius retard? Dis I say that India doesn't need tanks? I am only saying that India doesn't need Arjun heavy tanks as T90 is good enough. Why is that you have a problem with T90? T90 tank combined with air power is what will be used to give initial thrust. Just read how Iraq war 1990-1 took place. That is how one must try to invade. But one need not wait till enemy airspace is fully conquered. After some initial strikes, one must make a push from ground armour and choppers. But such an action doesn't need arjun tank. There is nothing deficient with T90 that makes this a difficult process. ATGM like Baktar Shikan can Pierce Arjun as well as T90 armour. We must expect some loss while using either tank. So, making a new tank just for the sake of it serves little purpose.


Pakistani ATGM is wire guided and that means it is dead accurate as long as the sights are kept focused. So, the ATGM can be made to hit any part of the tank. Since Pakistan will have to defend its territory at any cost, it will not mind losing a few lakh soldiers in such operations. The question is whether you are willing to lose 1 tank for 1 enemy soldier. The enemy soldier can hide pretty much every where - in building, in mountains etc and fire at will as the battlefield is in enemy territory.

Hj-8 is 1980s tech and developed to combat latest USA armour of Abrams tank. It is capable of penetrating 800 mm RHA which is a very formidable penetration. The ATGM can destroy Arjun as well as T90. So, it doesn't matter whether T90 is used or Arjun.


Why will India fight like in SYRIA? India will simply cut off supply to cities and make them come out or starve to death. In Syria, they were not willing to do this as the war was of limited scale.


Even you moron are someone I try to ignore but you simply are excruciatingly annoying. You scumbag act as if you know everything but simply incapable of talking logically when questioned. Then you end up calling others as retards for questioning. It is like a pig calling others filthy.

You are officially the sole member in over decade of my being here to go to ignore list. I thought I have seen all kinds of moron. You take the cake.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

You are officially the sole member in over decade of my being here to go to ignore list. I thought I have seen all kinds of moron. You take the cake.

When you are incapable of answering questions but still pretend to be some genius. I regularly see morons everywhere and you are just another one. A cheap person with low IQ bit high ego.

 

[proud_indian]

#IndianArmy agrees to new tank.the Arjun Mark 1A is slated to commence production end of the year.

 

[WolfPack86]

This is music to my hears. Finally Indian army accepted my arjuna mk 1a tank. I am happy.