AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[DumbPilot]

50 years or improvising, improving and rehearsing.
Vs a plane that does not even have a prototype.

I wonder which will win.

@Blademaster

I mean you can defeat a F-16 with an AK-47 too, given the right conditions. But atleast the AK-47 is real..

In real world, 1v1 comparisons don't make sense unless you're doing DACT(dissimilar air combat training. Put different planes against each other), and even then a lot of those DACT results depend on how good the training and SOP is.

Modern warfare is all about sensor fusion and group-wise engagements with supporting sections. It's a support chain - AWACS, pilot training, morale, their OODA loop, specific missile performances, supporting elements, level of situational awareness, etc. So a better question to ask would be:

"Can the AMCA's support chain win against the F-22's support chain?"

And I think asking this question is currently useless, unless you have complex knowledge available on both the IAF and USAF BVR timelines. For the former, there is piecemeal information only, but for the latter you can find lots of references(never real numbers, though, because that is classified, and if you are found distributing those numbers, you better prepare to go to jail if you are a US citizen).

 

[DumbPilot]

And I think asking this question is currently useless, unless you have complex knowledge available on both the IAF and USAF BVR timelines. For the former, there is piecemeal information only, but for the latter you can find lots of references(never real numbers, though, because that is classified, and if you are found distributing those numbers, you better prepare to go to jail if you are a US citizen).

In addition to that, btw, HUD photos or videos(in videos, the quality of radio communications) can reveal much information about how you've been trained and how good your "support chain" is. If you want to see a live example:

1 Saudi F-15, downing 2 Iraqi MiGs in Desert Storm.

4 American F-15s, downing 3 Iraqi MiG-23s in Desert Storm.

Both of these happened in the same war. Both had AWACS support.

Observe how the American and Saudi pilots operate.

Saudis take a lot of time to process and target. No interaction with the AWACS. Doesn't wait for positive ID. They don't sound professional or calm.

American pilots quickly make up a gameplan and hit the bandits. Good communication and are very calm. They announce who is shooting who, their status when necessary, etc and so on.

The HUD video in this one is not very important(it is washed out anyway), but the sophistication of communication very much is. It gives you a real idea about how professional they are.

 

[FactsPlease]

Lol anyone with a bit of sense recognizes that the comparison between amca and f22 is not set in current time but future

Just like anyone w/ sense recognizes that foot size comparison between me and my un-born child is not set in current time but future?

 

[Blademaster]

I know it has not existed off paper but I’m talking about expectations of the AMCA designers. Do they intend on the AMCA beating F-22 in combat? The F-22 designers planned on F-22 beating every plane out there before it became reality and it showed. They worked their asses off to make that happen.

Thats my question. What do the designers plan for AMCA to do in the future? What are their intentions?

 

[johnj]

Stealth technology might be ahead in generation but rcs is less w.r.t f22

Yes, to reduce cost.

 

[SavageKing456]

Just like anyone w/ sense recognizes that foot size comparison between me and my un-born child is not set in current time but future?

Unrelated.
Amca will come whenever it has to come
But it will come even if it takes 10 years
So the comparison is future not present.
So the point that since amca is not here we should not compare with materialized aircraft which exist is not correct imo.
F22s will have fixed technology unless airforce wants major upgrade

 

[Ajax01]

I think its safe to say AMCA will be stealthier than F22 mainly due to recent advancements in material sciences. Take for example Metamaterials demonstrated in 2009 for the first time. It allowed polarization insensitive significant broadband radar absorbtion in an ultrathin material, they weren't available even for the F35 (which allegedly uses CNT materials for stealth). Going forward with research in bi/multistatic radars the aircraft shape contribution to stealth will be increasingly reduced, possibly nullified. Its the radar absorber that will play a significant/principal role. Aircraft designers will therefore have more freedom to use less stealthy airframe (and consequently better aerodyamic/kinetic performance). Nowadays, even transparent bistealth (radar/IR stealth in the same material) metamaterials are getting developed. Unless F35/F22 undergoes a very significant upgrade they will remain less stealthy.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

I think its safe to say AMCA will be stealthier than F22 mainly due to recent advancements in material sciences. Take for example Metamaterials demonstrated in 2009 for the first time. It allowed polarization insensitive significant broadband radar absorbtion in an ultrathin material, they weren't available even for the F35 (which allegedly uses CNT materials for stealth). Going forward with research in bi/multistatic radars the aircraft shape contribution to stealth will be increasingly reduced, possibly nullified. Its the radar absorber that will play a significant/principal role. Aircraft designers will therefore have more freedom to use less stealthy airframe (and consequently better aerodyamic/kinetic performance). Nowadays, even transparent bistealth (radar/IR stealth in the same material) metamaterials are getting developed. Unless F35/F22 undergoes a very significant upgrade they will remain less stealthy.

One F35 prototype got clicked with sort of angled? coating supposedly it was an IR reducing measure. No idea how effective it was and where that research went.

 

[fooLIam]

I think its safe to say AMCA will be stealthier than F22 mainly due to recent advancements in material sciences. Take for example Metamaterials demonstrated in 2009 for the first time. It allowed polarization insensitive significant broadband radar absorbtion in an ultrathin material, they weren't available even for the F35 (which allegedly uses CNT materials for stealth). Going forward with research in bi/multistatic radars the aircraft shape contribution to stealth will be increasingly reduced, possibly nullified. Its the radar absorber that will play a significant/principal role. Aircraft designers will therefore have more freedom to use less stealthy airframe (and consequently better aerodyamic/kinetic performance). Nowadays, even transparent bistealth (radar/IR stealth in the same material) metamaterials are getting developed. Unless F35/F22 undergoes a very significant upgrade they will remain less stealthy.

one question.
Does all that R&D Is available for HAL.

 

[Arjun Mk1A]

Does all that R&D Is available for HAL.

ADA is the designer not HAL.

 

[ManhattanProject]

turkey has started building their fifth generation fighter.

 

[Gyyan]

turkey has started building their fifth generation fighter.

View attachment 183456

TAI-FX will fly before AMCA at this rate.
While turks get to see new picture of their fgfa every now and then we will have to console ourselves by reading about AMCA.
I kinda want to throw temper tantrum on not having our own 5th gen fighter in production.
Damn I am jealous.

 

[SavageKing456]

It will take 8 months for rollout after starting
1:1 scale for structural testing

 

[Gyyan]

View attachment 183465
It will take 8 months for rollout after starting
1:1 scale for structural testing

8 months is very less than 3 years which can become 4 or more any day.

 

[Gyyan]

Are we going to have a scaled up model of Uttam mk2 Or we will have another derivative of it for AMCA?

 

[thebakofbakchod]

turkey has started building their fifth generation fighter.

View attachment 183456

HAL AND ADA heads along with MOD babus and genrils need to be forced to resign. I am sure those retards will blame covid for the delay or come up with some other excuse

 

[Gyyan]

HAL AND ADA heads along with MOD babus and genrils need to be forced to resign. I am sure those retards will blame covid for the delay or come up with some other excuse

The KF21 was delayed by covid too.
So was the TAI FX
I don't think the pandemic was specific to India.

 

[NoobWannaLearn]

Are we going to have a scaled up model of Uttam mk2 Or we will have another derivative of it for AMCA?

Uttam mk3 as far as I remember

 

[Vamsi]

The KF21 was delayed by covid too.
So was the TAI FX
I don't think the pandemic was specific to India.

Had both these aircrafts been fully indigenous designs, just like our AMCA, then they would have been still on drawing boards..... blaming ADA is easy. Both these KF-21 & TF-X are American & British designs with Korean & Turkish names, while our AMCA is truly ours, so stop comparing for godsake

 

[Vamsi]