AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[HariPrasad-1]

Every Stealth fighter operates with what is called luneburg lens during peacetime operations to hide its true profile from hostile radars. It’s standard practice since the development of Stealth fighter jet.
Don’t act like Nehru othwise 62 will be repeated once again.

What you say is something new. Please elaborate so that its correctness can be verified. The other point is that I don't say only RCS. I said so many other fifth generation stuff as well.

 

[AbRaj]

What you say is something new. Please elaborate so that its correctness can be verified. The other point is that I don't say only RCS. I said so many other fifth generation stuff as well.

Which part ?
luneburg Lens ? I used to watch smithsonian Channal where they have a documentary about Stealth aircraft.

Also I think those who have good gaming rig should try DCS to understand about dogfights. Or at least watch videos of real pilots explaining various aspects of combat using DCS and tac view.

 

[porky_kicker]

Hi Guys,
Need some suggestions from all the gyaani folks here @abingdonboy , @porky_kicker to name a few...
A serving friend of mine is presenting to the IAF top brass during the upcoming commanders conference on the AMCA project - The topic is losely titled "IAF and AMCA - Opportunities and Challenges" to cut it short, they don't want to repeat the mistakes made with the Tejas project on this one. So are seeking suggestions from middle ranking officers on what they can do to meet the prospective timelines and how the IAF can be actively involved in the project. I gave some superfluous ideas:
1) Engine fix kar do (Two of the F404, F414 in tandem), don't wait up on GTRE
2) Weapons config clear kar do ... the ASRAAM/ Astra etc, so weapons bays don't turn out shorter than needed
3) Get the test flyers like Harsh Vardhan Thakur etc. involved early on

But I know far lesser than a lot of folks here, any pointers would help... I assure you this isn't some academic exercise... the audience would be the IAF top brass. So please help??

Much appreciated.

On another note, love the stringent moderation now, DFI mods keep up the good show.

Lol I am nobody to suggest to IAF.

Anyways I hope that

IAF involves itself with AMCA during the entire development life cycle. They don't limit themselves to soundbites but rather bring in their operational experience including espionage where necessary .

Also hope IAF don't copy paste requirements for AMCA and it's systems from foreign papers and sources. AMCA and it's systems must be decided based on IAFs own operational experiences , India specific expectations and requirements rather than alien or darpa level technologies. Come up with realistic goals and parameters which is gettable within a reasonable timeframe within the limitations of Indian MIC and get AMCA to fly and then expand on it ( interms of avionics , EW , data fusion etc ) , sky will be the limit then.

Also hopefully they will keep in mind that AMCA is simply a carrier - a vector , while it's weapons and sensors are the effectors. A vectors potency is mostly determined by its effectors, so equal if not greater priority must be given to develop AMCAs weapon systems and sensors eg DAS , distributed radar arrays etc

AMCA must be modular in design with open architecture to allow interchange / expansion of effectors as per mission requirements / as per progressive upgrades.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Which part ?
luneburg Lens ? I used to watch smithsonian Channal where they have a documentary about Stealth aircraft.

Yes, tell us more about luneburg lens.

 

[Kchontha]

Something is wrong in this thread.!? Where is the news n discussion about amca.!? This is all about me getting bore, nothing else. AmcA when fructify it will be monster of a machine in asia more than what chunks are doing. AmcA will f**k your a**.

 

[Hydra3]

Hi Guys,
Need some suggestions from all the gyaani folks here @abingdonboy , @porky_kicker to name a few...
A serving friend of mine is presenting to the IAF top brass during the upcoming commanders conference on the AMCA project - The topic is losely titled "IAF and AMCA - Opportunities and Challenges" to cut it short, they don't want to repeat the mistakes made with the Tejas project on this one. So are seeking suggestions from middle ranking officers on what they can do to meet the prospective timelines and how the IAF can be actively involved in the project. I gave some superfluous ideas:
1) Engine fix kar do (Two of the F404, F414 in tandem), don't wait up on GTRE
2) Weapons config clear kar do ... the ASRAAM/ Astra etc, so weapons bays don't turn out shorter than needed
3) Get the test flyers like Harsh Vardhan Thakur etc. involved early on

But I know far lesser than a lot of folks here, any pointers would help... I assure you this isn't some academic exercise... the audience would be the IAF top brass. So please help??

Much appreciated.

On another note, love the stringent moderation now, DFI mods keep up the good show.

1) Ask them to consider more powerful engine than GE f414, we all know what happened with tejas & f404. IAF was not happy with its under powered engine and ada forced to come up with mk2 idea .
We can choose f15's engine. I know that amca is designed around twin f414 engine and re designing works with big PWf100-229 is required. Why I want big & powerful engine is fore fe reasons
a) AMCA is a stealth fighter, with stealth coatings & advanced electronic equipments the effective usable load will not be sufficient in 2030 beyond, the time frame in which most of our medium class fighters will be retired.
B) if we are using 130kn engines, we can go for square type 2D tgrust vectoring nozzles, since box type nozzles come up with penalty od 2-3% reduction in thrust. That reduction can be cope up with higher thrust engine. Box type 2D thrust vectoring nozzle will enhance the rear stealthiness and IAF gonna ask all around stealth in future.
C) AMCA is the lightest stealth aircraft program now, we made that foolish decision in past by designing the lightest single engine aircraft.
D)Turkey is designing a stealth aircraft with PWf100-229 engines, i see a huge possibility that it may endup with PAF. Pakistan is preferring turkish equipments over chinese these days.

2) We need to start from the day 1 onwards for an EW attack version of AMCA along with regular EW suited AMCA, something like Growler. No gen5 aircraft will be able to jam AESA radar of another fighter. We need a growler type aircraft.

3) The internal weapon bay should spacious enough to accommodate missile like NSM, Scalp.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Lol I am nobody to suggest to IAF.

Anyways I hope that

IAF involves itself with AMCA during the entire development life cycle. They don't limit themselves to soundbites but rather bring in their operational experience including espionage where necessary .

Also hope IAF don't copy paste requirements for AMCA and it's systems from foreign papers and sources. AMCA and it's systems must be decided based on IAFs own operational experiences , India specific expectations and requirements rather than alien or darpa level technologies. Come up with realistic goals and parameters which is gettable within a reasonable timeframe within the limitations of Indian MIC and get AMCA to fly and then expand on it ( interms of avionics , EW , data fusion etc ) , sky will be the limit then.

Also hopefully they will keep in mind that AMCA is simply a carrier - a vector , while it's weapons and sensors are the effectors. A vectors potency is mostly determined by its effectors, so equal if not greater priority must be given to its weapon systems and sensors .

AMCA must be modular in design with open architecture to allow interchange / expansion of effectors as per mission requirements / as per progressive upgrades.

AMCA will be a lot more than current fifth generation fighters.

 

[AbRaj]

Yes, tell us more about luneburg lens.

Haven’t read about it much. But what I know is it’s some kind of device which emits various frequencies in different spectrum to hide/mimic the actual signature of a stealth fighter. I mean it makes a bigger and distorted signature.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

View attachment 45604 A J-20 analysis...........

I can compare J 20 with Rafale and how would they perform if they are pitted against each other in actual combat.

 

[Hydra3]

Haven’t read about it much. But what I know is it’s some kind of device which emits various frequencies is different spectrum to hide/mimic the actual signature of a stealth fighter. I mean it makes a bigger and distorted signature.

No its just a radar wave reflector. It increase the radar signature of a a stealth aircraft. In owase time ATC ( both military & civilian ) should be able to track all the thing flying in your airspace. So intentionally they will attack few lundberg lenses around the aircraft.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Haven’t read about it much. But what I know is it’s some kind of device which emits various frequencies is different spectrum to hide/mimic the actual signature of a stealth fighter. I mean it makes a bigger and distorted signature.

I think same technologies aee used in Bansi like drones to make it visible to radars so that it can be used as the target. if small plane cannot be detected by radars, how can missile be tested on it?

 

[AbRaj]

I think same technologies aee used in Bansi like drones to make it visible to radars so that it can be used as the target. if small plane cannot be detected by radars, how can missile be tested on it?

Yes true. I think @sathya has posted something similar yesterday. In DRDO thread

No its just a radar wave reflector. It increase the radar signature of a a stealth aircraft. In owase time ATC ( both military & civilian ) should be able to track all the thing flying in your airspace. So intentionally they will attack few lundberg lenses around the aircraft.

Bro I’m not sure but I think I’m correct

 

[Hydra3]

Yes true. I think @sathya has posted something similar yesterday. In DRDO thread

Bro I’m not sure but I think I’m correct

It will not emit any new frequency, it just reflect the frequency it got hit, just like a curved mirror, but with different principle.

 

[AbRaj]

It will not emit any new frequency, it just reflect the frequency it got hit, just like a curved mirror, but with different principle.

Ok as per Baba you are right .......

 

[Aaj ka hero]

@Alfalfa, what hydra saying is true.
Engine must be 130kn because we don't know how many mi-baaps are there for pakis bastards.
The plane must be designed to take care of f-35, if I say so DIRECTLY, why? because I have no faith at all in ANY COUNTRY literally leaving Israel and Nippon.
Russia cannot be trusted.
So, what? Modular design on the verge of gripen, continuous software upgrades, these can be done but then you need powerful engine for future needs too 130kn is best.
Also please tell them to start working fast, it doesn't matter if the plane is not fifth generation from get to go(pakis and Chinese will work towards countering it anyway), the best thing we can do is overdo them always.
The biggest guy for this who can do perfect job is GOVERNMENT and only GOVERNMENT, use any means to show BABUS the dream through which India will become a respectful power which nobody will mess around.
Our izzaat can be show to place by Malaysia and Turkey type of low level countries today.
This can only change by this AMCA but it has to be fast.
I know you type of guys cannot be allowed in government working but use every mean to wake real power pulers from slumber.
Real battle is how to make this project go fast? This project is of national importance go and tell them.
By that I mean every time tell them this will end pakis and Chinese as well as mi-baaps dream.

 

[Suryavanshi]

ANY COUNTRY literally leaving Israel and Nippon.

They aren't saint either.
Don't depend upon anyone is my say.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

It's pretty obvious that AMCA first will be powered by GE-414 and funding and R&D is going towards development of 110KN thrust engine.
A jet is designed around it's engine india currently and in future doesn't have engine's which can make a heavy 5TH generation fighter to do super cruise. I don't think we will be able to build 150-170KN engine to make a heavy AMCA to do super cruising.

For example Chinese J-20 even with AL-41 is failing to do super cruise.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

They aren't saint either.
Don't depend upon anyone is my say.

Nah, they are the last guys.
Japan is seriously in our like condition because of this fucking American and Chinese dream of group of two.
Israel well we know them, that they can change which way.
So,these countries are the last countries right now.

 

[Hydra3]

It's pretty obvious that AMCA first will be powered by GE-414 and funding and R&D is going towards development of 110KN thrust engine.
A jet is designed around it's engine india currently and in future doesn't have engine's which can make a heavy 5TH generation fighter to do super cruise. I don't think we will be able to build 150-170KN engine to make a heavy AMCA to do super cruising.

For example Chinese J-20 even with AL-41 is failing to do super cruise.

Yeas, we are light years behind from a 170kn engine, even russians failed in that category. But definitely we can go for lca model in amca with PWf100-229 engine.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Yeas, we are light years behind from a 170kn engine, even russians failed in that category. But definitely we can go for lca model in amca with PWf100-229 engine.

Then what we will do with 110KN kaveri??
I think if we are able to develop aircraft with our indigenous engine then it will be a huge boost for our capabilities. It's very important for india to attain self dependability. A medium weight AMCA with a total of 220KN will be able to do super cruising.