AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Aaj ka hero]

Again you’re talking all about narrative, which can’t be verified.
Similar to what pakis say about Arjun and Tejas . As per them it is being forced upon IA and IAF.
And system malfunction is pretty much normal. Even F35 has suffered a couple of accidents last year and papprox hundreds of small niggles. Let’s not even talk about Russian products here. Even our mighty Su 30 MKI, which you bragged about for doing screw driving job , is known as hanger queen.

that’s why I m saying mudslinging is counterproductive specially when you are standing in the mud.

Dude, every indigenous weapon is forced and what it turns out is future problem.
You know the story of f-18? I say just go and read it's inception.
This j-20 is good and y-20 too atleast they are inducting their own weapons (all though no westerners are going to sell them theirs) but I am sceptical of j-20 engine though, I wanna see where it goes.
For me today China is exactly like imperial Japan during it's pre war years.
And I too am sceptical of IAF claims but then nobody here knows under what circumstances IAF made a theory that they can detect j-20,did they never knew how stealth fly? Or it was something else, let's see in future.
Becuase some articles will certainly pop out.
Or if you have doubt go and ask thakur sir on twitter.

 

[porky_kicker]

what’s your expertise btw ?

Do you have any data to support your claims of HAL Marut and LCA being world’s best or even Dharavi’s best?

And what is your expertise btw ?

You are welcomed to your thought process , but kindly do not make the mistake of imposing it on others or wallow in the misconception that your through process is sacrosanct.

This type of mentality is unique to leftists and muzzies.

Btw you a resident of Dharavi ?

 

[Ajax01]

And what is your expertise btw ?

You are welcomed to your thought process , but kindly do not make the mistake of imposing it others or wallow in the misconception that your through process is sacrosanct.

This type of mentality is unique to leftists and muzzies

I cant think of a better way of putting it.
Besides I have been thinking if the pilot onboard an aircraft can tell if its enemy is using Luneberg Lens? Like if a radar can tell if a very unusally focussed beam is getting reflection from a point and alerting the pilot

 

[porky_kicker]

I cant think of a better way of putting it.
Besides I have been thinking if the pilot onboard an aircraft can tell if its enemy is using Luneberg Lens? Like if a radar can tell if a very unusally focussed beam is getting reflection from a point and alerting the pilot

Lundberg lens is mainly used during evaluation and testing .

Operationally it makes no sense on fighter aircrafts.

Though a exception might be there if a Lundberg lens is used in expendable unmanned UAVs to mimick the RCS of own fighter aircrafts inorder to fool the enemy during Air combat operations.

 

[Ajax01]

Lundberg lens is mainly used during evaluation and testing .

Operationally it makes no sense on fighter aircrafts.

Though a exception might be there if a Lundberg lens is used in expendable unmanned UAVs to mimick the RCS of own fighter aircrafts inorder to fool the enemy during Air combat operations.

What bout "preventing enemies from picking up radar sig" being put out?
Dont know if lundberg was intentional or not:biggrin2:

 

[porky_kicker]

What bout "preventing enemies from picking up radar sig" being put out?
Dont know if lundberg was intentional or not:biggrin2:

During peace time ok

During war you will get shot down pretty quick

 

[AbRaj]

And what is your expertise btw ?

You are welcomed to your thought process , but kindly do not make the mistake of imposing it on others or wallow in the misconception that your through process is sacrosanct.

This type of mentality is unique to leftists and muzzies.

Btw you a resident of Dharavi ?

Hehe. Come on. It was that bad.

I don’t like people underestimating others achievements just for their ego boosting.

BTW my area of expertise is not Aerospace. I just read and learn about what I find interesting. I can’t delete it now anyway.

 

[AbRaj]

Lundberg lens is mainly used during evaluation and testing .

Operationally it makes no sense on fighter aircrafts.

Though a exception might be there if a Lundberg lens is used in expendable unmanned UAVs to mimick the RCS of own fighter aircrafts inorder to fool the enemy during Air combat operations.

Not true. Watch Smithsonian channel documentary about Stealth aircrafts . They are using it since F117

 

[AbRaj]

1Dude, every indigenous weapon is forced and what it turns out is future problem.


2You know the story of f-18? I say just go and read it's inception.

3 This j-20 is good and y-20 too atleast they are inducting their own weapons (all though no westerners are going to sell them theirs) but I am sceptical of j-20 engine though, I wanna see where it goes.

4 For me today China is exactly like imperial Japan during it's pre war years.

5 And I too am sceptical of IAF claims but then nobody here knows under what circumstances IAF made a theory that they can detect j-20,did they never knew how stealth fly? Or it was something else, let's see in future.
Becuase some articles will certainly pop out.
Or if you have doubt go and ask thakur sir on twitter.

1 Yaar I don’t have any problem with insistence on indigenous products except in some very critical conditions etc. It was his argument abut Chinese jets which as per him, are forced on to PLAF.

2 same is true about even F16. USAF was not interested in it at all. It was supposed to be killed at Tech demo level. They were in love with F15, the ultimate dogfighter (as per them)

3 Absolutely true.

5 I too feel same and it feels scary.

6 I don’t doubt IAF claim. But yes let’s see what happens. Btw detecting J20 (which btw is no F22) is one thing and shooting it down by a Su 30 is another. Perhaps that’s why IAF is going for Rafale.

 

[porky_kicker]

Hehe. Come on. It was that bad.

I don’t like people underestimating others achievements just for their ego boosting.

BTW my area of expertise is not Aerospace. I just read and learn about what I find interesting. I can’t delete it now anyway.

No problem , and don't take any offence ( and none was intended too ) . What I said was in good faith and I appreciate your gesture . Shows the better side of you. Much appreciated.

This is not the only forum I post in . My major contribution is in non Indian forums .

In none of them I ever underestimated or made fun of porky weapons but this did not stop me from pointing out the deficiencies and propaganda from the porkies based on technical points.

Here also I try to do the same , only difference is in Indian forums we foolishly benchmark ourselves with the porkies.

In international forums the benchmark is international standards. Porkies don't last long with all propaganda and zero substance.

And additionally in Indian forums we have porkies or wannabe porkies or those sympathetic to porkies who try to insert misinformation and divert the discussion for whatever reasons if porkies are put in the backfoot with credible technical information forget about propaganda.

Indian forums want to increase traffic to their sites and any child knows that majority of indians are drawn like moths to fire if they spot a porky. So porkies are encouraged and tolerated in indian forums even if they spew rubbish. Indian forums inorder to increase traffic go soft on porkies while undermining own credibility and lowering the standards.

Also it is my personal opinion that porkies are not worth the trouble when it comes to discussions based on science and technology. It's alien to their nature . Chinese are a better option .

So the reason why I rarely engage them. Why waste time ?




End points :

Also if there is genuine reason to be proud of , one must not shy from doing so. Nationalism is great unifier in a non homogeneous country.

Understand this , in this world nothing can be generalized as there will always be exceptions , but exceptions must not be mistaken as the general norm, which is suicidal and foolish.

 

[Craigs]

There is a growing issue on this forum of non-electrical (and allied fields) engineers commenting on EW, ECM, ECCM, Radars, Stealth etc... As long as it is in the spirit of enthusiast commentary it is all good. But kind appeal to all enthusiasts please don't take absolutist positions

 

[AbRaj]

This is not the only forum I post in . My major contribution is in non Indian forums .

In none of them I ever underestimated or made fun of porky weapons but this did not stop me from pointing out the deficiencies and propaganda from the porkies based on technical points.

Here also I try to do the same , only difference is in Indian forums we foolishly benchmark ourselves with the porkies.

In international forums the benchmark is international standards. Porkies don't last long with all propaganda and zero substance.

And additionally in Indian forums we have porkies or wannabe porkies or those sympathetic to porkies who try to insert misinformation and divert the discussion for whatever reasons if porkies are put in the backfoot with credible technical information forget about propaganda.

Indian forums want to increase traffic to their sites and any child knows that majority of indians are drawn like moths to fire if they spot a porky. So porkies are encouraged and tolerated in indian forums even if they spew rubbish. Indian forums inorder to increase traffic go soft on porkies while undermining own credibility and lowering the standards.

Also it is my personal opinion that porkies are not worth the trouble when it comes to discussions based on science and technology. It's alien to their nature .

So the reason why I rarely engage them. Why waste time ?




End points :

Also if there is genuine reason to be proud of , one must not shy from doing so. Nationalism is great unifier in a non homogeneous country.

Understand this , in this world nothing can be generalized as there will always be exceptions , but exceptions must not be mistaken as the general norm, which is suicidal and foolish.

Dude I never said you did that. I hate morons across the border and don’t like to see one of us gets beating because he/she has not done his homework right.
I believe we are not in the same league and should act like that.
But Chia is a real problem and we must pay attention to everything they are doing.

BTW pakis have some good shit from USA and Franc but that’s not much of a problem.

 

[AbRaj]

@porky_kicker you know what the real problem is?
It’s exactly what I told you. Most of us like to brag a lot but are lazy to do some homework before doing it. So we go overboard and get trapped by pakis and Chinese.

BTW I don’t like anyone taking part in useless discussion with pakis and wumaos. I don’t know why people can’t control the urge to do so. I mean if you have to , at least do it on some serious topics.

 

[Alfalfa]

Hi Guys,
Need some suggestions from all the gyaani folks here @abingdonboy , @porky_kicker to name a few...
A serving friend of mine is presenting to the IAF top brass during the upcoming commanders conference on the AMCA project - The topic is losely titled "IAF and AMCA - Opportunities and Challenges" to cut it short, they don't want to repeat the mistakes made with the Tejas project on this one. So are seeking suggestions from middle ranking officers on what they can do to meet the prospective timelines and how the IAF can be actively involved in the project. I gave some superfluous ideas:
1) Engine fix kar do (Two of the F404, F414 in tandem), don't wait up on GTRE
2) Weapons config clear kar do ... the ASRAAM/ Astra etc, so weapons bays don't turn out shorter than needed
3) Get the test flyers like Harsh Vardhan Thakur etc. involved early on

But I know far lesser than a lot of folks here, any pointers would help... I assure you this isn't some academic exercise... the audience would be the IAF top brass. So please help??

Much appreciated.

On another note, love the stringent moderation now, DFI mods keep up the good show.

 

[porky_kicker]

Dude I never said you did that. I hate morons across the border and don’t like to see one of us gets beating because he/she has not done his homework right.
I believe we are not in the same league and should act like that.
But Chia is a real problem and we must pay attention to everything they are doing.

BTW pakis have some good shit from USA and Franc but that’s not much of a problem.

I was just musing , it was not exactly related to your post

I edited my original post , please revisit it.

 

[AbRaj]

I was just musing , it was not exactly related to your post

I edited my original post , please revisit it.

Yeah read it again and agreed to the points you made. We are too focused on pakis to see the broader picture.
Also Pakistan and science are oxymoron. Majority of these people are tribal minded and unfit for scientific knowledge (at least that’s what I believe)
So no further discussion about that.

 

[AbRaj]

O bhencho , I got a warning that I’m an addict now
WTF

 

[porky_kicker]

@porky_kicker you know what the real problem is?
It’s exactly what I told you. Most of us like to brag a lot but are lazy to do some homework before doing it. So we go overboard and get trapped by pakis and Chinese.

BTW I don’t like anyone taking part in useless discussion with pakis and wumaos. I don’t know why people can’t control the urge to do so. I mean if you have to , at least do it on some serious topics.

Let them , you don't

In this world it is not possible to micro manage everything . Not is it wise to do so .

As far as I am concerned

In non existent perfect world only every lies can be countered by truth only.

In real life lies can be countered by lies mixed with truth. The end game result matters most.

Nothing is that simple or black and white.

Best fight fire with fire, but don't make it a habit otherwise one will unwittingly end up becoming like the ones who you are fighting in the first place. That's the big risk .

Hence why I say best not engage the porkies or at best keep it very limited.

 

[AbRaj]

Hi Guys,
Need some suggestions from all the gyaani folks here @abingdonboy , @porky_kicker to name a few...
A serving friend of mine is presenting to the IAF top brass during the upcoming commanders conference on the AMCA project - The topic is losely titled "IAF and AMCA - Opportunities and Challenges" to cut it short, they don't want to repeat the mistakes made with the Tejas project on this one. So are seeking suggestions from middle ranking officers on what they can do to meet the prospective timelines and how the IAF can be actively involved in the project. I gave some superfluous ideas:
1) Engine fix kar do (Two of the F404, F414 in tandem), don't wait up on GTRE
2) Weapons config clear kar do ... the ASRAAM/ Astra etc, so weapons bays don't turn out shorter than needed
3) Get the test flyers like Harsh Vardhan Thakur etc. involved early on

But I know far lesser than a lot of folks here, any pointers would help... I assure you this isn't some academic exercise... the audience would be the IAF top brass. So please help??

Much appreciated.

On another note, love the stringent moderation now, DFI mods keep up the good show.

I have read some interesting stuff about that on another Indian forum Strateic Front forum.
Members like vstoljocky , randomradio and picdelamirand etc are very knowledgable.

 

[AbRaj]

Let them , you don't

In this world it is not possible to micro manage everything . Not is it wise to do so .

As far as I am concerned

In non existent perfect world only every lies can be countered by truth only.

In real life lies can be countered by lies mixed with truth. The end game result matters most.

Nothing is that simple or black and white.

Best fight fire with fire, but don't make it a habit otherwise one will unwittingly end up becoming like the ones who you are fighting in the first place. That's the big risk .

Hence why I say best not engage the porkies or at best keep it very limited.

Problem is They are using ignorant Indians as a tool to discredit our POV and furthering their agenda and information warfare. Indians are being used as tool/pawn.