AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

smestarz

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I have a strong feeling that LCA Mk.2 will be cancelled. IAF is not interested in it. IAF has realized that AMCA is the next big thing. After Mk.1A, I think IAF will design together with ADA in a hurriedly manner to bring it asap. Meanwhile, Mk.2 will go to Navy.
LCA II will not be cancelled, LCA II will bring in the top tech, which will then be put in LCA Mk 1A later (the avionics and not the engine)
LCA 1A s the present possible way to get the numbers that IAF is complaining about and to shut the baby. that takes of pressure from HAL with some deliveries done and they can then try to get into more complex and possibly better hardware. For example the Russians have come up with Phototronic Radar which as the theory goes is more better than AESA. So would Mk II field AESA or phototronic? That decision can be taken in Mk2 and make it much better than Mk 1A.. IAF needs more than 300 single engine planes or rather 300 Tejas.
These will be the Light or single engined MRCA stationed at forward air bases. So with 120 Mk 1A that leaves almost 180+ MK2 potentially, which is a good number, further there are possibilities for more. If we get a good engine from Russians, we can outfit MK2 with Russian engines for Russia also.

LCA Mk2 as I understand will be something that is excellent as MiG-29 SMT and yet have better availability rates and easier maintenance. So in a way, a plane as good as MiG-29 or better but in single engine.

AMCA will be diferent ball game It will replace the MiG-27, Jaguars and Mirage 2000
Thus I think we have covered all bases
 

garg_bharat

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I think a single engine plane is must for India. What shape LCA mark2 takes is for the future.
 

tharun

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This is how f-35 missiles are dropped...
Looking at it it can carry 4 A-A missiles in two bays....AMCA can carry 6 if our missiles are slim enough
 

Superdefender

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HAL AMCA India’s fifth generation fighter
update

March 1, 2016





Source link: http://www.defenceupdate.in/hal-amca-indias-fifth-generation-fighter-update/

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is an Indian programme of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft. It is being developed by an aerospace industry team which consist of Aeronautical Development Agency as a design firm and to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is a single-seat, twin-engine, stealth supermaneuverable all weather multirole fighter aircraft. Unofficial design work on the AMCA started in 2008 with official work started in 2011 and completed in 2014. In 2008 Indian Navy joined the programme for the naval variant optimized for the aircraft carriers operation. The first flight is scheduled to occur in 2023–2024.

It is a multirole combat aircraft designed for the air superiority, ground attack, bombing, intercepting, Strike and other types of roles. It combines supercruise, stealth, AESA radar, maneuverability, and advanced avionics to overcome and suppress previous generation fighter aircraft along with many ground and maritime defences.

The AMCA preliminary design was changed several times, to adopt new model engines, Radar’s and long range missiles. Like how the A 10 developed to carry the GAU 8 Avenger cannon. The AMCA also developed to carry multi national equipment’s like Missiles, Radar’s and Engines.

Currently more than 4000 employers assigned into the AMCA project,where they extracted from ADA, DRDO, HAL and some other leading private companies. The AMCA team identified three major technical works. Which are Thrust vectoring, super cruise Engines, Active radar’s and other processing system and the radar absorbent material.

Engine
India asks for a joint development of fifth generation engines with foreign nations. It’s reported India might need more than 2000 plus Engines for AMCA. India already has initiated a Engine project named Kaveri. India wants the new engine who powers the AMCA must be based on the Kaveri. In response many foreign nations responded for the Joint Engine development program.

Currently three countries tries to seal the AMCA engine development program. US, France and England offers their known engine companies like General Electric, Snecma and Rolls Royce respectively. GE from America offered engine development based on the F 414 engine, and the Snecma announced the M 88 engine who powers the Rafale and the Rolls Royce also offered the EJ 200 engine for joint development with Kaveri.

As per last known reports, US company General Electric leads in the program. who already supplying F 404 engines for LCA Tejas. GE also set ups manufacturing plants in India to produce aviation engines in India.

Radar
As same like every other fifth generation fighters, The AMCA too hosts superior avionics and sensor suites. The AMCA hosts new generation GaN based AESA for superior detection and performance. Currently there is no fighter jets has GaN based AESA radars. However many ground based radar available with GaN transceiver modules.

Some information’s reported that, state owned LRDE is initiated a project to develop a small size air borne X band GaN based AESA radar for AMCA. LRDE already shows a model of AESA radar in last years Aero India exhibition. However the Uttam is not good for fifth generation fighters like AMCA.

It’s reported earlier that, India and Israel working for a joint project to develop a GaN based AESA for fighter jets. However due to the importance of the program the information’s are highly classified. It’s clear the Radar too be a joint venture between either US or Israel.

Sensor
The infrared based systems like IRST, missile warning systems, laser warning system also added internally in the AMCA. The IRST sensors are placed in all sides of the AMCA to provide full angle coverage like in Rafale and F 35. The proposed IRST system is work similar to the F 35’s EOTS who shares the information’s to friendly units like via the satellite and highly secured data links.

AMCA also comes with self protection jammer system to jam enemy radar guided missiles from both air and ground. electronic counter measure systems to confuse the infrared guided missiles and a radar warning receiver too added to detect enemy radar frequency’s.

The Senor suites in AMCA led by the LRDE and BEL which include many private and foreign contributes.

Propulsion and Avionics
AMCA is a twin-engines aircraft which is powered by 2X GTRE k9 + or K 10 engine that can capable of producing 110kN-125kN thrust each.The aircraft has a maximum take off weight is 29 tonnes:2 tonnes of internal weapons and 4 tonnes of internal fuel.It can achieve maximum speed of 2.5+ Mach (2665 + Km/h) at altitude and Mach 1.2 at sea level and have a cruise speed of Mach 1.6 at supercruise.The AMCA would have range of 2800 km and climb at the altitudes @ 13,716m/min.

The HAL AMCA has integrated with latest avionics suite which include AESA radar,Integrated avionics systems,Helmet Mounted Display,Datalink capabilities,IRST,E/O Targeting System (EOTS),Multi-functional integrated radio electronics system (MIRES),ECM Suite,Laser-based counter-measures against infrared missiles,IRST for airborne targets,Ultraviolet warning sensors and Targeting pod.

Armaments
The armaments includes 23 mm GSh-23 cannon gun and 8 hardpoints in stealthy configuration and 12 maximum hardpoints id non stealth load.The aircraft is mounted with Astra missile for long range BVRAAM combat ,Python 5 all aspect short range missile and Vympel R-73 short/visual range combat missile.



It’s Reported the AMCA will be ready by early 2020 or before and HAL starts flying the first flight of fully developed AMCA by 2021. with the initial low rate initial production by 2024. And the air force gets the first AMCA squad by 2025. If all things goes per schedule


p.jpeg
 

Superdefender

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This is how f-35 missiles are dropped...
Looking at it it can carry 4 A-A missiles in two bays....AMCA can carry 6 if our missiles are slim enough
Good....you posted that pic. Lockheed is planning to increase the capacity to carry 3 air-air missiles per bay in F-35. The total internal weapon payload of F-35 is slightly more than 5,000 pounds.
 

tsunami

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HAL AMCA India’s fifth generation fighter
update

March 1, 2016





Source link: http://www.defenceupdate.in/hal-amca-indias-fifth-generation-fighter-update/

Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) is an Indian programme of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft. It is being developed by an aerospace industry team which consist of Aeronautical Development Agency as a design firm and to be manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It is a single-seat, twin-engine, stealth supermaneuverable all weather multirole fighter aircraft. Unofficial design work on the AMCA started in 2008 with official work started in 2011 and completed in 2014. In 2008 Indian Navy joined the programme for the naval variant optimized for the aircraft carriers operation. The first flight is scheduled to occur in 2023–2024.

It is a multirole combat aircraft designed for the air superiority, ground attack, bombing, intercepting, Strike and other types of roles. It combines supercruise, stealth, AESA radar, maneuverability, and advanced avionics to overcome and suppress previous generation fighter aircraft along with many ground and maritime defences.

The AMCA preliminary design was changed several times, to adopt new model engines, Radar’s and long range missiles. Like how the A 10 developed to carry the GAU 8 Avenger cannon. The AMCA also developed to carry multi national equipment’s like Missiles, Radar’s and Engines.

Currently more than 4000 employers assigned into the AMCA project,where they extracted from ADA, DRDO, HAL and some other leading private companies. The AMCA team identified three major technical works. Which are Thrust vectoring, super cruise Engines, Active radar’s and other processing system and the radar absorbent material.

Engine
India asks for a joint development of fifth generation engines with foreign nations. It’s reported India might need more than 2000 plus Engines for AMCA. India already has initiated a Engine project named Kaveri. India wants the new engine who powers the AMCA must be based on the Kaveri. In response many foreign nations responded for the Joint Engine development program.

Currently three countries tries to seal the AMCA engine development program. US, France and England offers their known engine companies like General Electric, Snecma and Rolls Royce respectively. GE from America offered engine development based on the F 414 engine, and the Snecma announced the M 88 engine who powers the Rafale and the Rolls Royce also offered the EJ 200 engine for joint development with Kaveri.

As per last known reports, US company General Electric leads in the program. who already supplying F 404 engines for LCA Tejas. GE also set ups manufacturing plants in India to produce aviation engines in India.

Radar
As same like every other fifth generation fighters, The AMCA too hosts superior avionics and sensor suites. The AMCA hosts new generation GaN based AESA for superior detection and performance. Currently there is no fighter jets has GaN based AESA radars. However many ground based radar available with GaN transceiver modules.

Some information’s reported that, state owned LRDE is initiated a project to develop a small size air borne X band GaN based AESA radar for AMCA. LRDE already shows a model of AESA radar in last years Aero India exhibition. However the Uttam is not good for fifth generation fighters like AMCA.

It’s reported earlier that, India and Israel working for a joint project to develop a GaN based AESA for fighter jets. However due to the importance of the program the information’s are highly classified. It’s clear the Radar too be a joint venture between either US or Israel.

Sensor
The infrared based systems like IRST, missile warning systems, laser warning system also added internally in the AMCA. The IRST sensors are placed in all sides of the AMCA to provide full angle coverage like in Rafale and F 35. The proposed IRST system is work similar to the F 35’s EOTS who shares the information’s to friendly units like via the satellite and highly secured data links.

AMCA also comes with self protection jammer system to jam enemy radar guided missiles from both air and ground. electronic counter measure systems to confuse the infrared guided missiles and a radar warning receiver too added to detect enemy radar frequency’s.

The Senor suites in AMCA led by the LRDE and BEL which include many private and foreign contributes.

Propulsion and Avionics
AMCA is a twin-engines aircraft which is powered by 2X GTRE k9 + or K 10 engine that can capable of producing 110kN-125kN thrust each.The aircraft has a maximum take off weight is 29 tonnes:2 tonnes of internal weapons and 4 tonnes of internal fuel.It can achieve maximum speed of 2.5+ Mach (2665 + Km/h) at altitude and Mach 1.2 at sea level and have a cruise speed of Mach 1.6 at supercruise.The AMCA would have range of 2800 km and climb at the altitudes @ 13,716m/min.

The HAL AMCA has integrated with latest avionics suite which include AESA radar,Integrated avionics systems,Helmet Mounted Display,Datalink capabilities,IRST,E/O Targeting System (EOTS),Multi-functional integrated radio electronics system (MIRES),ECM Suite,Laser-based counter-measures against infrared missiles,IRST for airborne targets,Ultraviolet warning sensors and Targeting pod.

Armaments
The armaments includes 23 mm GSh-23 cannon gun and 8 hardpoints in stealthy configuration and 12 maximum hardpoints id non stealth load.The aircraft is mounted with Astra missile for long range BVRAAM combat ,Python 5 all aspect short range missile and Vympel R-73 short/visual range combat missile.



It’s Reported the AMCA will be ready by early 2020 or before and HAL starts flying the first flight of fully developed AMCA by 2021. with the initial low rate initial production by 2024. And the air force gets the first AMCA squad by 2025. If all things goes per schedule


View attachment 7888
Mostly sounds like a fan boy stuff to me... Also If the internal fuel is Just 4 tons then it's really low.
 

Superdefender

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Mostly sounds like a fan boy stuff to me... Also If the internal fuel is Just 4 tons then it's really low.
I too do not believe 4tn fuel fig., it should be minimum 6tn in the final design. And it's not fanboy stuff. Who knows, ministry coninuing AMCA work background in mission mode. Our media doesn't know a bit about defence. It is interested in Kanhaiya!!
 

Superdefender

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Rafale option – A strategic blunder
By (Brig (retd) GB Reddi) -
January 27, 2016

Source link: http://www.orangenews9.com/rafle-option-a-strategic-blunder/




The cost of 36 Rafale fighters is an astronomic sum of US $8 billion (over Rs. 52,000 crores) – over Rs. 1440 crores per fighter. That figure would include the cost of an initial scale of weaponry and spare parts, as well as hangar facilities. And, their induction is spread over 2 years, that is, by 2018.

Most important, rapid obsolescence of Rafale fighters is real sooner than later what with induction of Gen 5 fighter aircraft more agile and with stealth features becoming a reality by 2020. Furthermore, Rafael’s first demonstration flight was in 1986. So, it is nearly 30 years old design.

War is ruled out in a short term context particularly in the context of nuclear weapons deterrence capability. Alarmists invoke “two front” war to justify empire building knowing full well that country’s economy cannot sustain “numbers superiority’ in present context.

Is there a necessity to opt for such a super cost option? The comparative data between the Indian Air Force with Pakistan Air Force and the Chinese Air Force is highlighted to provide an insight.

Ipso facto, India would have 272 SU 30 MKI multi role fighters Su 30 MKI (from the present 224) by 2018-2019. Along with 59 upgraded Mirage 2000 fighters, the IAF would have equipped nearly 17+ squadrons of Generation 4 fighters. Also, 4 squadrons of MIG 29 air superiority fighters.

In contrast, Pakistan would be having 14+ squadrons (233 ) of multi role fighters: F-!6 A & B – 50 (Sqns 3); JF 17 – 60 (Sqns 3+); Mirage IIIO – 50 (Sqns 3); Mirage 5F – 73 (Sqns 4+). It has one squadron air superiority fighters (18) F 16 C & D.

So, IAF has definite edge over PAF both quantitatively and qualitatively what with all SU-30 MKIs upgraded to ‘Super Cruise” capability upgraded with state-of-the-art avionics and Beyond Visual Range Missiles (ASTRA & BRAHMOS).

Next the Chinese PAAF capability includes 556 multi role fighters (J-16 – 3 (In service 2014); J-10 (4.5 Gen) – 240+; Su-30 MKK – 73; Xian JH-7 FBs – 120; Q-5 – 120); air superiority fighters 280 (J-11 (4.5 Gen) – 205+; and Su-27– 75); and interceptors J-8 all types – 144 and J-7 all types – 528.

If so, the accretion of 36 Rafale’s cannot meet IAF requirement to counter the Chinese capability. Let none suffer from illusions on the above count.

Next, the cost comparison of Rafale fighters with in-service fighters in the IAF clearly exposes intellectual bankruptcy of decision makers. For one Rafale, 4-8 indigenously produced fighters can be acquired. After all, the cost of Sukhoi-30MKI is only Rs. 358 crores per fighter. Even the cost of Tejas Mk 2 would considerably lower.

Add to it, the astronomical operational costs of Rs.11 lakhs per hour. And, the costs of maintenance and replacement of engines after every 1500 flying hours also needs to be taken into consideration – life cycle costs.

Considering that China has already demonstrated prototype of Gen-5 system, the choice of ‘Rafale” to be the mainstay of IAF for 13-15 years is patently absurd. At best, ‘Rafale’ may be a short term substitute and mothballed sooner than later after induction of T-50 commencing by 2022 or indigenous AMCA by 2025 or even earlier.

More importantly, to buy Rafale fighters in flyaway condition is the abandonment of any “Make in India” component, which is the much trumpeted Modi’s initiative.

When viewed holistically, from all operational, technical, maintenance and financial dimensions, the ‘Rafale” deal is a fraud.

Let me also briefly review India’s Tejas fighter development. On 17 January 2015, the first Tejas Mk I, multi role and multi mission fighter. Now, the final operational clearance (FOC) has been reportedly given.

The Tejas Mk I assembly line was established at a cost of Rs 1,556 crore. It plans to build four Tejas Mark I by March 2016; another eight by March 2017; and crank up production to 16 fighters annually by March 2018. HAL is worried about the future of its production line after it delivers 40 Mark I fighters by end-2019.

HAL sees a four-year gap between the last Tejas Mark I and the first Tejas Mark II as seriously disruptive. Building 80 Tejas Mark I-A, which is under development, is a way of bridging that gap. After 2019, the production line would be idle till the Tejas Mark II enters production. Keeping the line running is essential, so that skilled manpower does not have to be redistributed; and a steady flow of orders can be placed on sub-vendors.

HAL argues that the Mark I’s GE F-404IN engine, which generates 84 kiloNewtons (kN) of peak thrust, would meet the IAF’s performance requirements, if one tonne is shaved off the Tejas Mark I’s empty weight of 6,500 kg. In that case, the GE F-414INS6 engine’s 98 kN of thrust would be needed only for the naval Tejas, which must take off from the short runway of an aircraft carrier deck.

Under development is also Tejas Mark II featuring more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 engine with 98 KN of thrust and refined aerodynamics to meet the latest Indian Air Force Requirements. ADA is procuring 99 GE-F414-INS6 engines to power the Tejas Mk-2 and LCA Navy. Under the contract, the first lot of the engines with 95-100 KN power will be supplied by the GE Aero Engines and the rest would be manufactured in India under transfer of technology.

Most critical is that Tejas Mk II will incorporate fifth-generation jet fighters elements which are intended to make way into the Sukhoi/HAL Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) and HAL Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

The Ministry of Defense has sanctioned US$542.44 million (Rs 2,431.55-crore) for ADA to develop the IAF’s Tejas Mk II variant. The IAF is committed to procuring an initial 83 Tejas Mk 2s. The Mark II will feature an indigenous developed active electronically scanned array (AESA) fire control radar named Uttam. The Mk II will also see the incorporation of a new electronic warfare suite which is being jointly developed with Israel. This is to have a new glass cockpit with larger 8 x 12 inch displays. The aircraft also features Digital fly by wire system, fuel dump system, Tailless compound delta wing and composite structure which improve performance, maintainability and survivability and make it supersonic at all altitudes.

Other main upgrades includes higher thrust engine, Structural weight reduction. Upgraded Flight Control computer, In flight refuelling retractable probe, on board oxygen generation system and increased fuel capacity. The Mk II will have some 25-30 percent commonality in parts with the Mk I and these parts are already in production.

India’s first Beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile (BVRAAM) Astra missile developed by the DRDO will be integrated with the first batch of production variant of Tejas Mk II. IAF is keen on getting Astra missile integrated with Tejas MK I and MK II aircrafts. DRDO plans to start production of a missile by 2018-19. In August 2015, the Indian defense minister stated the first flight of Tejas Mk II is likely to be 2019 with an entry into service in 2022.

Meanwhile, in October 2015, media reports suggested the government has decided to order the modified Tejas Mk I A.

To overcome HAL’s difficulties with building and assembling the Tejas Mark I, ADA proposes to adopt a new production model for the Mark II. The DRDO has chosen private sector companies to manufacture the fighter’s modules (systems and sub-systems). HAL will be responsible for integrating them and testing and delivering them to the IAF.

ADA has completed the preliminary design of the Tejas Mark II, but now the detailed design will be done. HAL would have to refine and upgrade the systems it developed for the Tejas. HAL is reluctant to participate in developing the Mark II.

What is therefore needed is to fast pace the induction of Tejas Mk I and I-A and Tejas Mk II. Indigenous production of 36 Tejas Mk 1 should be possible along with the induction of Tejas Mk I-A and Mk II also by 2020. If so, why the sudden haste to purchase outright 36 Rafale fighters at a huge cost to the nation with deliveries spread over 2 years and against the spirit of “Make in India”.

Also, the Sukhoi T-50 – Gen-5 air superiority fighter – joint collaboration between Russia and India – is costing an estimated $ 6 bn to develop with India shouldering about 35% of the cost. The fighter made its first appearance at the MAKS 2011 air show outside Moscow, and is expected to be mass produced by 2015. Having waited so long, Air Force could surely wait for induction of T-50s by 2017.



Furthermore, under design and development is also the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), a Gen-5 Fighter Aircraft being developed by HAL and designed by ADA. It is a single-seat, twin-engine (414-EPE (Enhanced Performance Engine) engines with 120 kN), stealth super maneuverable all weather multirole fighter aircraft. The AMCA’s twin F-414 Enhanced Engine will thus deliver an awesome 220 KM of peak power. The first flight is scheduled for 2018 and it is expected to be in service by 2024. Why not fast track it to an earlier date?



Since the US has agreed for transfer of technology in aero engines, it could be a commercial windfall for GE Aero Engines providing it an assured market for all India’s indigenous fighters. This would include 100 F-404 engines for the Tejas Mark I, another 100 F-414 engines for the Tejas Mark II; and 400 F-414 Enhanced Engines for a planned 200 AMCAs.

Since an aero engine’s life is about 1,500 hours, each fighter – with a service life of 5,000-6,000 hours – consumes 3.5 engines. That means GE could be supplying 700 engines for the Tejas Marks 1 and 2, and 1,400 engines for the AMCA over their service lives. This is a sizeable share of the Indian aero engine market, which the DRDO estimates to be worth Rs 3,50,000 crore over coming decades.

When viewed holistically in the above backdrop, Modi’s choice of ‘Rafale’ appears to be a strategic blunder. He should once again refer the whole issue back to professional and technical experts to review the issue de novo.

The key issue that Modi needs to clarify to the nation is “why he has gone back on his Make in India” strategy. Is it merely a slogan to fool people? Is it to help the French to boost their sagging economy at India’s cost?

Surely, national interests must govern bilateral relationships. French cannot compel us to buy 36 Rafales. Instead, India should consider procuring 1600 Mwe Generation 4 clean nuclear reactors based on transfer of technology, in situation manufacturing of major components along with export of nuclear reactors to other nations just like what has been the agreement signed by China.
 

Tactical Frog

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When viewed holistically in the above backdrop, Modi’s choice of ‘Rafale’ appears to be a strategic blunder. He should once again refer the whole issue back to professional and technical experts to review the issue de novo.
Ouch, so much for IAF expertise ;)
 

garg_bharat

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This article shows significant resistance to rafale deal in current ruling party. There is a lot of speculation about corruption in finalizing the tender by previous government.

The stand of Dassault is only fueling the fires.
 

warrior monk

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Only 1:9.5 metal model has been created for RCS and high speed wind tunnel testing has it progressed any further ?? At this rate it will only be ready by 2030 optimistically .
 

smestarz

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Ouch, so much for IAF expertise ;)
Money talks my friend, money. Was it not our great ex-IAF chief say that Pilatus is going to be cheaper. and now MoD realise that they have been lied by ex-IAF chief? IAF expertise.. lying and cheating
 

Dark Sorrow

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Another sensible reason is that Nirbhaya will shoot down effortlessly. Missiles like Nirbhaya, which travels at 0.7-0.8 mach, donot pose threat to powerful countries having advanced radars and interception capability. Subsonic cruise missiles are helpful to bring down weak states. For e.g., Russia recently launched salvo of subsonic missiles from Frigates, that travel a long way to hit Syria. If you even managed to integrate a Nirbhaya-A, so what? Launching from MKI and again goes subsonic, only to hit Pak (1,000km range is no use)!
Sir, I believe you misunderstood Nirbhay.
Nirbhay is a sub-sonic missile that is capable of flying at different altitudes ranging from 500 m to 4 km above the ground and can also fly at low altitudes (like low tree level) to avoid detection by enemy radar.
No matter how powerful you are their are always gaps in your radar coverage. The missile has been designed with stealth consideration resulting in a small RCS.
The terrain hugging capability and low RCS with high range make it idea for deep strike role. It will be very useful to hit PRC and Pakistan.
 

Superdefender

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Sir, I believe you misunderstood Nirbhay.
Nirbhay is a sub-sonic missile that is capable of flying at different altitudes ranging from 500 m to 4 km above the ground and can also fly at low altitudes (like low tree level) to avoid detection by enemy radar.
No matter how powerful you are their are always gaps in your radar coverage. The missile has been designed with stealth consideration resulting in a small RCS.
The terrain hugging capability and low RCS with high range make it idea for deep strike role. It will be very useful to hit PRC and Pakistan.
You are right, but after firing from very high altitudes from AMCA, will it immidiately come down to low altitude to avoid radar? We have to take into consideration that, if there comes a case when AMCA is inside enemy border and then fires Nirbhaya-A from very high altitudes, will not it be detected?
 

Superdefender

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@Dark Sorrow, I am not against Nirbhaya. I am just saying it will not bring much advantage if we integrate it in AMCA. If in test, it was video recorded by MKI by side (because its speed is subsonic), how much difficulty will hostile jets face to intercept it if it is detected from high altitude? How many Nirbhayas can AMCA carry to be fully effective? That's why I am saying that Brohmos-M cruise missile is best for integration. I shall choose 2 Brohmos-Ms over 4 Nirbhaya-Ms any day in AMCA. Nirbhaya is best suited for Destroyers and SSNs, because after fired, it will instantly achieve very low altitude (so no problem). That was my point. And thanks, but please don't call me "sir"! I am not an expert.
 

smestarz

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You are right, but after firing from very high altitudes from AMCA, will it immidiately come down to low altitude to avoid radar? We have to take into consideration that, if there comes a case when AMCA is inside enemy border and then fires Nirbhaya-A from very high altitudes, will not it be detected?
What is stealth now will not be in few years. Already as you see we have missiles that can fly low and avoid enemy radar, so why we want to buy a plane that can that?
By the way, a stealth missile (VLO in few years will a good idea, specially its launched from a height and it tthen kicks in its AI, goes below the enemy radar and goes to its target...
When the Radars become more smart , i would love a missile with exaggerated RCS so that it looks like we fired a boeing A380 at a target instead of a small missilei.
If you cannot hide, why try to hide, market yourself ..
 

smestarz

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@Dark Sorrow, I am not against Nirbhaya. I am just saying it will not bring much advantage if we integrate it in AMCA. If in test, it was video recorded by MKI by side (because its speed is subsonic), how much difficulty will hostile jets face to intercept it if it is detected from high altitude? How many Nirbhayas can AMCA carry to be fully effective? That's why I am saying that Brohmos-M cruise missile is best for integration. I shall choose 2 Brohmos-Ms over 4 Nirbhaya-Ms any day in AMCA. Nirbhaya is best suited for Destroyers and SSNs, because after fired, it will instantly achieve very low altitude (so no problem). That was my point. And thanks, but please don't call me "sir"! I am not an expert.
Nirbhaya is a good missile if it can be carried internally in AMCA. Anything external will ensure that the stealth is not there, and so we have to resort to radar jamming. But then if its an external missile, why to use AMCA, just use our good old Su-30 MKI and let the AMCA blow the path for it. just in case
 

Superdefender

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Nirbhaya is a good missile if it can be carried internally in AMCA. Anything external will ensure that the stealth is not there, and so we have to resort to radar jamming. But then if its an external missile, why to use AMCA, just use our good old Su-30 MKI and let the AMCA blow the path for it. just in case
Hmm, role reversal?
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Superdefender

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Seriously Nirbhay missile inside AMCA I don't think so because Nirbhay is large in diameter. Even f-22 doesn't carry alcm inside it's weapon bay
That's not the point. If US now makes a separate version of Tomahawk subsonic cm that can fit in weapon bay, then still F-22 will not use it. You do not use Nirbhaya/Tomahawk to take down aerial threats, air-air missiles do that. Cruise missiles are for ground target destruction, so they are the suitable weapons for Multirole aircrafts or fighters designed for deep strike/penetration. The primary role of F-22 is air dominance. It clears the sky for other aircrafts. Hence it will not carry any Tomahawks any day. Destroyers and SSK/SSNs are suitable platform to launch Nirbhaya. That way salvo of Nirbhaya can do havoc on enemy. We'll not get any advg. if we integrate Nirbhaya in AMCA. Let AMCA carry 2Brohmos-NGs. In future, FGFA takes the role of MKI.We can turn MKIs into deep strike fighters by fitting Nirbhayas.
 

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