AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
4,456
Likes
13,419
Country flag
It looks like Turkey has not actually started on engine design. From an article published February 2021:




I don't see an APU as anything to do with a new engine to power TF-X. A starting system won't power TF-X either.
We thought only our MOD made a fool out of them a decade before ,but these Turks are next level , they rebadge nato product and claim to be the biggest military of nato
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
392
Likes
914
Country flag
Don't believe turks , they dud almost everything till now piggy backing on nato , and nato don't have a 5th gen tech that they would like to share , spectra won't be shared ,nor captor aesa ,or rbe2 .

Nor does engine , they were begging RR for engine jv and rejected by RR .

They are Pakistan of Europe after erdog came .

F 100 or f 110 are not allowed to rhem for new project , well they can try a stunt and put it in their tfx ,even if they manage to do it without oem , they will be given a pillar of sanction up their ass , remember those shit begging to USA to have ajoint custody of S 400 , well MOTHER ROOSIA may help them but term for that support will be too unfavorable for them
Yup. Being in NATO has its own advantages like weapon systems, integration and maintenance. But mission computer, FCS, wind tunnel testing, radars etc would be trouble some. Turks are claiming in pdf, TFX will go in production after 2 years the prototype flies. That's the level of delusion. Some even claim, 100% of the parts of F110 engine is made in Turkey so even without US they can make that engine. Deino was laughing at them.

Advantages where it is due. They are good in EW, Drones and some AI stuff. But they are not good enough for 5th gen ac development.
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
392
Likes
914
Country flag
I bet that there is a problem with the center of gravity of South Korean fighter jets. For this kind of aircraft that blindly adopts F22 aerodynamic shape, South Korea has no understanding of the essence of F22 design. The design of F22 is simple but not simple. It reflects the deep accumulation of the American aviation industry everywhere.
I hope you do understand that so called CG testing are finished in wind tunnel testing even before they proceed to prototype development. Dismantling of prototype is still fine. Koreans are way faster than many countries in 5th gen fighter development.
 

ym888

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2021
Messages
24
Likes
12
Country flag
India, Turkey and South Korea are all at the same level.They can't develop a quality fighter on their own.They have to rely on foreign technical assistance. They have to rely on foreign parts.
 

Kalkioftoday

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
83
Country flag
India, Turkey and South Korea are all at the same level.They can't develop a quality fighter on their own.They have to rely on foreign technical assistance. They have to rely on foreign parts.
Yes for AMCA india have to rely on foreign parts like engine, ejection seats and some small stuffs here and there but foreign technical assistance? I don't think so. I haven't heard anything about any foreign company assisting us on AMCA, be it in design or prototype development.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
4,456
Likes
13,419
Country flag
India, Turkey and South Korea are all at the same level.They can't develop a quality fighter on their own.They have to rely on foreign technical assistance. They have to rely on foreign parts.
Another new poster ,from god know which country , dropping a random message in discussion , in order to derail the thread ,if india can't make it ,then what the heck we discussed about in last 355 pages , we have developed most of things ,only thing that won't be indigenous in amca , would be some semiconductor fabs ,thst would be custom built by some foreign company but programmed in india , and engine , ejection seat too .

Engine would be indigenous in mk2 , and would be a reliable engine , with newer technologies in jv with some oem .

Ejection seat is something where no one tries to do it on their own , no one is interested except china ,russia .

Well for tfx , i can assure you turks can't do it ,today or even in next 10 years fully at level of india , korean are trying and their efforts and approach are appreciable but when their real 5th gen plane arrive ,we would be having amca too , not much difference in timeline , except they would be experienced on thier system .

Koreans are using hell lot of foreign assistance ,radar help by elta and selex , engine ge and no indigenous deveolpment , avionics either license production or direct oem product , even design is not refined ,just f 22 design copied but without engine and fbw of f 22 , engine are low on power , no dsi , not even proper DAS and eots , that irst stucks out
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
5,338
Likes
20,843
Country flag
Another new poster ,from god know which country , dropping a random message in discussion , in order to derail the thread ,if india can't make it ,then what the heck we discussed about in last 355 pages , we have developed most of things ,only thing that won't be indigenous in amca , would be some semiconductor fabs ,thst would be custom built by some foreign company but programmed in india , and engine , ejection seat too .

Engine would be indigenous in mk2 , and would be a reliable engine , with newer technologies in jv with some oem .

Ejection seat is something where no one tries to do it on their own , no one is interested except china ,russia .

Well for tfx , i can assure you turks can't do it ,today or even in next 10 years fully at level of india , korean are trying and their efforts and approach are appreciable but when their real 5th gen plane arrive ,we would be having amca too , not much difference in timeline , except they would be experienced on thier system .

Koreans are using hell lot of foreign assistance ,radar help by elta and selex , engine ge and no indigenous deveolpment , avionics either license production or direct oem product , even design is not refined ,just f 22 design copied but without engine and fbw of f 22 , engine are low on power , no dsi , not even proper DAS and eots , that irst stucks out
Reply to tu kar raha hy 😅
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
4,456
Likes
13,419
Country flag
@fire starter do the fbw system is developed during prototype stage or most of work is dobe veofrehand based on cfd and further refinement is done during prototyping and testing phase ??
 

Spitfire9

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
383
Likes
1,101
Country flag
Back to a 110kN engine...

What about a JV where India takes on development of aspects of the engine within its realistic grasp, foreign OEM does the rest? In that way a degree of certainty of a useable result within the timeline for AMCA Mk2 could be achieved. Over the years India could invest in the R&D required to become proficient in the areas where expertise is inadequate and 20 years and $10 billion or $20 billion later India would be able to design and build an entirely Indian engine.

By the way, I was reading here: https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Eurojet_EJ200 that the RR XG-40 engine was designed to be compatible with the installation dimensions of the Tornado. A new JV engine could be designed to be compatible with the installation dimensions of the F414. Hundreds of engines could be used as replacement engines in Indian fighters when F414's reached the end of their working lives.
 

Starlight

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
97
Likes
189
Country flag
Back to a 110kN engine...

What about a JV where India takes on development of aspects of the engine within its realistic grasp, foreign OEM does the rest? In that way a degree of certainty of a useable result within the timeline for AMCA Mk2 could be achieved. Over the years India could invest in the R&D required to become proficient in the areas where expertise is inadequate and 20 years and $10 billion or $20 billion later India would be able to design and build an entirely Indian engine.

By the way, I was reading here: https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Eurojet_EJ200 that the RR XG-40 engine was designed to be compatible with the installation dimensions of the Tornado. A new JV engine could be designed to be compatible with the installation dimensions of the F414. Hundreds of engines could be used as replacement engines in Indian fighters when F414's reached the end of their working lives.
Rolls Royce wasn't very happy about the HF-24 program and gave such under powered engines that a Mach 2 design could reach the sound barrier only in a dive. Let's just keep all British systems out of the AMCA program. Their level isn't very flexible.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
4,456
Likes
13,419
Country flag
Rolls Royce wasn't very happy about the HF-24 program and gave such under powered engines that a Mach 2 design could reach the sound barrier only in a dive. Let's just keep all British systems out of the AMCA program. Their level isn't very flexible.
Money requirements weren't same , nor did we tried for powerful engine
 

Spitfire9

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
383
Likes
1,101
Country flag
Rolls Royce wasn't very happy about the HF-24 program and gave such under powered engines that a Mach 2 design could reach the sound barrier only in a dive. Let's just keep all British systems out of the AMCA program. Their level isn't very flexible.
OK. DIY. Or do it with SAFRAN.

By the way, RR offered to increase the thrust of the Orpheus from 4,900 lbs thrust for not a lot (reportedly £3 million) but GOI did not want to finance it. Instead India went for the Brandner E-300 engine being developed to power the Egyptian Helwan HA-300. So which party was not flexible? India was offered a more powerful engine by RR. India chose another route. Unfortunately HA-300 was cancelled, along with its engine in 1969.
 

Kalkioftoday

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
83
Country flag
OK. DIY. Or do it with SAFRAN.

By the way, RR offered to increase the thrust of the Orpheus from 4,900 lbs thrust for not a lot (reportedly £3 million) but GOI did not want to finance it. Instead India went for the Brandner E-300 engine being developed to power the Egyptian Helwan HA-300. So which party was not flexible? India was offered a more powerful engine by RR. India chose another route. Unfortunately HA-300 was cancelled, along with its engine in 1969.
Yes, they would have develop a more powerful engine for Hf24 for merely a 3 million pound but the government refused and later we our self killed HF24 and choose to import Jaguars instead. We should'nt blame RR here for our own government's failure. Curently RR is in a massive financial dificulties, if we somehow able to make a good deal for some money than it'll be a once in a lifetime game changer moment for indian aviation industry. We just have to assure them a good, guaranteed profitable business here. Curently GE hold a monopoly for new engines here but if we assure RR+GTRE of the same monopoly than we can have our own engine within a decade. BTW anyone here knows what are the prices of f404 and f414?
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
4,456
Likes
13,419
Country flag
Yes, they would have develop a more powerful engine for Hf24 for merely a 3 million pound but the government refused and later we our self killed HF24 and choose to import Jaguars instead. We should'nt blame RR here for our own government's failure. Curently RR is in a massive financial dificulties, if we somehow able to make a good deal for some money than it'll be a once in a lifetime game changer moment for indian aviation industry. We just have to assure them a good, guaranteed profitable business here. Curently GE hold a monopoly for new engines here but if we assure RR+GTRE of the same monopoly than we can have our own engine within a decade. BTW anyone here knows what are the prices of f404 and f414?
Not massive difficulty but a problem in sustaining fighter jet engine program as new typhoon order won't be in bulk like before and they don't want to spend their capital on preserving the tech
 

Spitfire9

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
383
Likes
1,101
Country flag
Curently RR is in a massive financial dificulties, if we somehow able to make a good deal for some money than it'll be a once in a lifetime game changer moment for indian aviation industry.
If you are right, India should be able to get a better deal than the one India would get if RR was riding high. RR is tipped to do well financially in the next 3 years, so it would be a good idea to take advantage of this opportunity while RR is in a weak position.

BTW anyone here knows what are the prices of f404 and f414?
I don't remember the source but I think F404 costs around $5 million and F414 around $7 million.
 

Spitfire9

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
383
Likes
1,101
Country flag
India much ahead of Turkey and SK.
Turkey's tech may not match that of India but, to my surprise, I have just seen this:

Temel Kotil, general manager of Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI), which is the main contractor of the project, told government-owned Anadolu Agency that the production process is progressing well and that the prototype, which includes avionics, control and hydraulic systems, will be unveiled for the first time on March 18, 2023.

I wonder how close to flyable the prototype will be when unveiled.
 

Lonewolf

Psychopathic Neighbour
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
4,456
Likes
13,419
Country flag
Turkey's tech may not match that of India but, to my surprise, I have just seen this:




I wonder how close to flyable the prototype will be when unveiled.
Progressing well , but no info about engine , mission computer , i think they miced info of tfx and hurjet ,as hurjet may come by 2023 , tfx is next to impossible by 2023
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top