AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Steven Rogers]

Interesting first time seeing a EOTS pod on the nose , it's location is unique inclined to the right.

Also shown is retractable IFR

View attachment 24337
View attachment 24338

And Source of first photo. Looks amazing.

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[porky_kicker]

And Source of first photo. Looks amazing.

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It was from Twitter ..............

Guess it was part of a brochure , hope somebody uploads it

 

[AMCA]

It was from Twitter ..............

Guess it was part of a brochure , hope somebody uploads it

I have already uploaded the image of complete poster in DefExpo thread.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Is 3B-09 Configuration, final AMCA Design?
http://idrw.org/is-3b-09-configuration-final-amca-design/

SOURCE: VISHAL KARPE / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has displayed Two Scale models of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) at Defence Expo 2018 which is currently being held in Chennai, TamilNadu. AMCA Scale model was displayed showcasing Stealth and Non-Stealth configuration even though both models displayed were not exact same of the same design.

Stealth configuration of Scale model which is same as AMCA design which was provided in the documents issued for the Request for Expression of Interest to seek vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) based on Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Configuration 3B-09 is latest configuration refinement which was carried out from the initial 3B-01 concept over the years while working on design refinement by ADA.

ADA has promised that vendor selection will be done by end of this year for AMCA and once the final contract is confirmed, selected vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD). NGTD-1 within 3½ of executing a contract with ADA and NGTD-2 within the end of 4th year.

After Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) completes initial flight trials, ADA has proposed to develop first Prototypes of AMCA from 2025 on wards before aircraft is cleared for production from 2030 on wards.

So basically ADA is considering other options besides HAL for manufacturing AMCA. Which makes me wonder who could they be?

Does any of TATA, Mahindra or L&T have the requisite capability for manufacturing flying TDs of a 5th generation aircraft?

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2018/04/5-reasons-why-this-is-boeings-sharpest-move-in-india-yet.html

"Internally, HAL has rued the idea of not being the principal integrator of India’s next fighter. But this new agreement settles that sulk. HAL now stands satisfied to be up on stage with the world’s biggest aircraft company and one of India’s fastest rising private aerospace firms"

so HAL is out from AMCA ......

Is this a too radical move. I would say Yes.

 

[Kshithij]

So basically ADA is considering other options besides HAL for manufacturing AMCA. Which makes me wonder who could they be?

Does any of TATA, Mahindra or L&T have the requisite capability for manufacturing flying TDs of a 5th generation aircraft?



Is this a too radical move. I would say Yes.

Maybe the idea is to have HAL make Tejas plane and provide expertise to the private sector to make AMCA. There is no actual competition between HAL and private sector. It is just the government policy of building a military industrial complex that requires redundancy. In war, if one of the facility is destroyed, we will have other facility to make planes.

I would say that since there is a lot of time to get AMCA ready, it would not be a radical move. HAL will be busy making LCA MK2 and the private player will be making AMCA

 

[scatterStorm]

Read correctly, the airframe is still not easy to design by Auto desk or unity or Rage, the whole detailed design of a fighter is to be designed, whole set of LRUs are needed to design with efficient utilization of spaces , they need to be fitted and simulated so that they can do that efficiently on ground. Designing an aircraft don't include designing of some random out-skin of some different aircrafts and jumping like Ragdoll for that feat. And if you are including the designs of various aircraft without any detail, you will need decades to solve the aerodynamic problems with those inherent design that bring due to their distinct feature.

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Ok this is going to become a pissing contest, what I discussed was, the air frames now can be made much faster, because simulation has brought the time factor a little down. Yes I agree that there are much complex part and I did mentioned the metallurgy problem. You also added your 2 cents over here, together we added a 4.

The point is ... it's not a radical design, the whole things should be bit of a progress, not accepting the tried and accepted methods. If this is the way we are going, boy we ain't flying that prototype even near to 2025.

Shouldn't we supposed to create a jet that actually screams our design. Next thing you are going to see are articles saying how we created nose job jet with half ass'd avionics suit.

 

[scatterStorm]

Is 3B-09 Configuration, final AMCA Design?
http://idrw.org/is-3b-09-configuration-final-amca-design/

SOURCE: VISHAL KARPE / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has displayed Two Scale models of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) at Defence Expo 2018 which is currently being held in Chennai, TamilNadu. AMCA Scale model was displayed showcasing Stealth and Non-Stealth configuration even though both models displayed were not exact same of the same design.

Stealth configuration of Scale model which is same as AMCA design which was provided in the documents issued for the Request for Expression of Interest to seek vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) based on Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Configuration 3B-09 is latest configuration refinement which was carried out from the initial 3B-01 concept over the years while working on design refinement by ADA.

ADA has promised that vendor selection will be done by end of this year for AMCA and once the final contract is confirmed, selected vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD). NGTD-1 within 3½ of executing a contract with ADA and NGTD-2 within the end of 4th year.

After Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) completes initial flight trials, ADA has proposed to develop first Prototypes of AMCA from 2025 on wards before aircraft is cleared for production from 2030 on wards.

Good it should be, the second one is a nose job anyway.

 

[scatterStorm]

Interesting first time seeing a EOTS pod on the nose , it's location is unique inclined to the right.

Also shown is retractable IFR

View attachment 24337
View attachment 24338

This is new, EOTS pod like that Rectangle thingy or the round one to the left?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Maybe the idea is to have HAL make Tejas plane and provide expertise to the private sector to make AMCA. There is no actual competition between HAL and private sector. It is just the government policy of building a military industrial complex that requires redundancy. In war, if one of the facility is destroyed, we will have other facility to make planes.

I would say that since there is a lot of time to get AMCA ready, it would not be a radical move. HAL will be busy making LCA MK2 and the private player will be making AMCA

If the idea is expansion beyond HAL. Then why not make it more practical?

Draft a policy and go the ATAGS way. Select two contractors, ask each to build one NGTD. Whosoever comes with a better-manufactured aircraft gets manufacturing order for 2/3rd of total AMCA and runner-up getting 1/3rd of the order. Also, link AURA/GHATAK with AMCA program in such a way that both contractors will fabricate first TDs and order distribution will happen the same way as AMCA.

The point I am stressing is, make AMCA + GHATAK program so lucrative with a clear-cut roadmap that interested vendors start investing in infrastructure and HR with sufficient lead in time. Considering they are about to jump all the way to manufacturing 5th gen combat aircraft from no where.

 

[Steven Rogers]

Ok this is going to become a pissing contest, what I discussed was, the air frames now can be made much faster, because simulation has brought the time factor a little down. Yes I agree that there are much complex part and I did mentioned the metallurgy problem. You also added your 2 cents over here, together we added a 4.

The point is ... it's not a radical design, the whole things should be bit of a progress, not accepting the tried and accepted methods. If this is the way we are going, boy we ain't flying that prototype even near to 2025.

Shouldn't we supposed to create a jet that actually screams our design. Next thing you are going to see are articles saying how we created nose job jet with half ass'd avionics suit.

If you're concerned about the two design models shown during defence expo 2018, they are just representation models, not the final designs. Their has been series of evolution of design which currently is 3B-09 which seems final and last evolution. That's not a problem when ADA itself says that first of flight of NGTD in 2025 and flight completion by 2026,then Limited series produced model will come for development. The induction is already scheduled to 2035, and air force is planning with that timeline.

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[S.Balaji]

I had an opportunity to speak to a Mech guy working on Amca at the expo, as twitted by S Jha Amca prototype would be rolled out by 2022....he said the prototype would feature all the tech from Tejas mk1a, albeit scaled up in size....the strategy is to get the design phase to mature first into a prototype...perhaps that's the reason for such a ambitious time line...Amca's planned avionics, weapons systems and all other associated 5th gen tech would be parallely realised and would be integrated in future iterations

 

[AMCA]

I had an opportunity to speak to a Mech guy working on Amca at the expo, as twitted by S Jha Amca prototype would be rolled out by 2022....as we already know he said wind tunnel testing of final design of scaled down model is wrapped n tied....he said the prototype would feature all the tech from Tejas mk1a, albeit scaled up in size....the strategy is to get the design phase to mature first into a prototype...perhaps that's the reason for such a ambitious time line...Amca's planned avionics, weapons systems and all other associated 5th gen tech would be parallely realised and would be integrated in future iterations....

Good, we should first concentrate on getting the aircraft in air. Parallel development of 5th gen avionics and other subsystems will save a lot of time.............

 

[Mikesingh]

Is 3B-09 Configuration, final AMCA Design?
http://idrw.org/is-3b-09-configuration-final-amca-design/

SOURCE: VISHAL KARPE / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has displayed Two Scale models of Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) at Defence Expo 2018 which is currently being held in Chennai, TamilNadu. AMCA Scale model was displayed showcasing Stealth and Non-Stealth configuration even though both models displayed were not exact same of the same design.

Stealth configuration of Scale model which is same as AMCA design which was provided in the documents issued for the Request for Expression of Interest to seek vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) based on Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

Configuration 3B-09 is latest configuration refinement which was carried out from the initial 3B-01 concept over the years while working on design refinement by ADA.

ADA has promised that vendor selection will be done by end of this year for AMCA and once the final contract is confirmed, selected vendors who could manufacture Two Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD). NGTD-1 within 3½ of executing a contract with ADA and NGTD-2 within the end of 4th year.

After Next Generation Technology Demonstrator (NGTD) completes initial flight trials, ADA has proposed to develop first Prototypes of AMCA from 2025 on wards before aircraft is cleared for production from 2030 on wards.

Michael Koch, who is Boeing’s President for Defence, Space and Security in India, told BusinessLine that the aircraft maker is committed to producing Super Hornets in India. “The Super Hornets will be built in India in a world class advanced manufacturing facility with the very latest technologies in place, perfectly positioning India to build its Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA),” he said.

Is that a hint? It seems Boeing would be one of the vendors selected for the NGTD.

 

[patriots]

according to DRDO chairman

initial design of amca completed....and final design will be done next

they are waiting for fund ...
amca and naval amca will be developed together.........


and I think the final design will make the difference between namca and amca

and the models shown in defexpo are from initial design


imho if we will be able to produce td of amca in 2022
then with some upgradation we can use it as a 4.5 gen mca......(which will be a good option to avoid short fall of squadron)...

 

[Steven Rogers]

according to DRDO chairman

initial design of amca completed....and final design will be done next

they are waiting for fund ...
amca and naval amca will be developed together.........


and I think the final design will make the difference between namca and amca

and the models shown in defexpo are from initial design


imho if we will be able to produce td of amca in 2022
then with some upgradation we can use it as a 4.5 gen mca......(which will be a good option to avoid short fall of squadron)...

Option highly unlikely, as I will be happy if they manufacture AMCA with Tejas mk1a avionics but, air force and planners have other plans all together, they won't induct any less than a 5th gen fighter, given squad shortfall will be filled with mk1a, Rafales and 110 new fighter tender.

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[patriots]

Option highly unlikely, as I will be happy if they manufacture AMCA with Tejas mk1a avionics but, air force and planners have other plans all together, they won't induct any less than a 5th gen fighter, given squad shortfall will be filled with mk1a, Rafales and 110 new fighter tender.

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you are right but if we will be able to build first td in 2022
and hope 3rd td in 2025 with refinement s

then it
will be a 4++++ mca fighter which can be later
upgraded
and it's 2018 It will be another 4 year s at least for first foreign fighter induction.......

bdw China already has inducted j20(questionable 5th gen) and j31(questionable)

and Pakistan inducted jf17(block1) ,which was a tinn ka dabba then. ..now it will have bvr ..aesa..etc

so if we will be able to produce amca td too which will be a 4++++mca....we should induct them

 

[Mikesingh]

I had an opportunity to speak to a Mech guy working on Amca at the expo, as twitted by S Jha Amca prototype would be rolled out by 2022....he said the prototype would feature all the tech from Tejas mk1a, albeit scaled up in size....the strategy is to get the design phase to mature first into a prototype...perhaps that's the reason for such a ambitious time line...Amca's planned avionics, weapons systems and all other associated 5th gen tech would be parallely realised and would be integrated in future iterations

Check this out...

India's AMCA 5th Gen Stealth Fighter Prototype could be completed in 2019

We recently contacted our source in HAL who is working with AMCA project, and we asked him about the comments made by ADA Chief recently about the timeline. He said that 2025 is the timeline given which is correct but what our 'so-called’ journalists forgot to mention was that 2025 was not initial year but actually was the deadline given by MoD to ADA to make AMCA operational within the force. Though he said that AMCA’s Naval variant won’t come before 2025 (prototype). But the main AMCA variant which is meant for Air-Force is definitely coming in 2019 as a prototype for it’s first flight.

ADA modified the designs of AMCA which is the final design stage.

Now ADA-HAL is making 1:1 Model of AMCA for various tests related to stealthiness which would happen before the end of this year. This test will be the final procedure of AMCA before building it’s prototype which would start from 2018.

We also tried to get status of all component’s development and we succeeded. Here’s the update of AMCA’s component’s current status:

No.~ Item ~ Status~ Since~ ETA
1~ Design ~ Done~ 2008 ~ ~2017
2 ~Stealth ~ Done~ 2010 ~ ~ 2017
3 ~Composites ~Ongoing~ 2010 ~2017
4 ~Control ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
5 ~Engine ~Ongoing~ 2017 ~2020
6 ~Avionics ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
7 ~Equipment ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
8 ~Radar ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2019+
9 ~Sensors ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
10 ~Cockpit ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018
11 ~EW & EC ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018

Source: Defence News

 

[Kshithij]

Option highly unlikely, as I will be happy if they manufacture AMCA with Tejas mk1a avionics but, air force and planners have other plans all together, they won't induct any less than a 5th gen fighter, given squad shortfall will be filled with mk1a, Rafales and 110 new fighter tender.

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As long as the basic design is suitable for 5th generation operation, it is better to first get the plane functional and then upgrade it to full potential along with all the feedback for improvement.

AMCA with 4.5 generation technology may be the need mass manufacturing of medium payload aircraft for non specialist operation. It is always easier to manufacture and assemble less complicated 4.5 generation than 5th generation. So, I woukdnwobe surprised if AMCA will have 2 version- one with 5th generation and one with 4.5 generation

 

[scatterStorm]

If you're concerned about the two design models shown during defence expo 2018, they are just representation models, not the final designs. Their has been series of evolution of design which currently is 3B-09 which seems final and last evolution. That's not a problem when ADA itself says that first of flight of NGTD in 2025 and flight completion by 2026,then Limited series produced model will come for development. The induction is already scheduled to 2035, and air force is planning with that timeline.

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Hey I am happy if they can pull it off by staging a flight trial by 2026. @Mikesingh mentioned that HAL is dead serious about it, hopefully everything just comes to right place and time.

 

[binayak95]

Check this out...

India's AMCA 5th Gen Stealth Fighter Prototype could be completed in 2019

We recently contacted our source in HAL who is working with AMCA project, and we asked him about the comments made by ADA Chief recently about the timeline. He said that 2025 is the timeline given which is correct but what our 'so-called’ journalists forgot to mention was that 2025 was not initial year but actually was the deadline given by MoD to ADA to make AMCA operational within the force. Though he said that AMCA’s Naval variant won’t come before 2025 (prototype). But the main AMCA variant which is meant for Air-Force is definitely coming in 2019 as a prototype for it’s first flight.

ADA modified the designs of AMCA which is the final design stage.

Now ADA-HAL is making 1:1 Model of AMCA for various tests related to stealthiness which would happen before the end of this year. This test will be the final procedure of AMCA before building it’s prototype which would start from 2018.

We also tried to get status of all component’s development and we succeeded. Here’s the update of AMCA’s component’s current status:

No.~ Item ~ Status~ Since~ ETA
1~ Design ~ Done~ 2008 ~ ~2017
2 ~Stealth ~ Done~ 2010 ~ ~ 2017
3 ~Composites ~Ongoing~ 2010 ~2017
4 ~Control ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
5 ~Engine ~Ongoing~ 2017 ~2020
6 ~Avionics ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
7 ~Equipment ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
8 ~Radar ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2019+
9 ~Sensors ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
10 ~Cockpit ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018
11 ~EW & EC ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018

Source: Defence News

STEALTH IS DONE?! Are they talking of those RAM nanomaterial ? That's a big deal. Not even the Russkies have managed to perfect stealth tech. They are focusing or aerial supermaneuverability to ensure the survival of the plane...