AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (HAL)

[Vijyes]

Given that the production of AMCA is out to 2035 (nearly 20 years away), it not surprising if IAF and other armed forces sit down and discuss what the future battlefield would look like and device requirements accordingly. It's not too far fetched to imagine that in 20 years there're would be more 'unmanned' combat everything (planes to tanks to helos).
At the same time, the technologies that they're trying to evaluate (as part of the 3 year lead-in project) seems very sensible and relevant - as in stuff like stealth, serpentine intakes (and not to mention engines in diff project) etc would go into Ghatak/AURA too.
Let's hope things will speed up!

No drones can fly at supersonic speed, be as agile in dogfighting and interception and maneuver tightly on the field. If that was the case, US would have used them in iraq against ISIS

 

[Scrutator]

No drones can fly at supersonic speed, be as agile in dogfighting and interception and maneuver tightly on the field. If that was the case, US would have used them in iraq against ISIS

As of today, yes. But things will change fast. In fact the only reason why the current generation fighter planes limit themselves to 9g maneuvers is because that's the 'human limit'. Once you go the supersonic/hypersonic drone route then maneuverability will go really extreme!
In general drone technology is relatively new (as compared to the fighter jets); armed drones even rarer. Real UCAV is just getting developed (still not deployed yet). But there's no reason that advancements in this area wont happen quickly.

 

[tsunami]

From the AMCA Facebook page.....


New Delhi continues work on stealthy AMCA

India is forging ahead with its most challenging fighter programme, the development of its low-observable Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).Director of New Delhi’s Aeronautical Development Agency C.D. Balaji says that the great majority of work for the shape of the AMCA has been completed.

The biggest challenge involves the development of Radar Absorbent Material (RAM).He alluded to New Delhi’s challenges in the area of radar cross section (RCS) reduction in comments about the collapse of the 2012 deal to buy 126 Dassault Rafale fighters.

There were several issues that caused the Rafale deal to collapse, he says, but he specifically pointed to France’s unwillingness to part with a proprietary RAM that is applied to the Rafale’s canopy. Had the deal moved forward, Rafales completed in India would have been sent to France to receive the coating.

Other low-observable features in the AMCA will be S-shaped engine intake ducts, which help hide the engine from enemy radars, and canted twin tails.

For what ADA calls “stealth mode,” AMCA will carry a mix of four munitions, either bombs or missiles, in an internal bay. For “non-stealth mode” the jet will have fuselage hardpoints, as well as three additional hardpoints on each wing. The two inboard hardpoints will be able to carry external fuel tanks.

The engine has not been determined, but is likely to be either the General Electric F414, which powers the Boeing F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet, or the Eurojet EJ200, which powers the Eurofighter Typhoon.

At the 2015 iteration of Aero India, an ADA official told FlightGlobal that an advanced version of a local engine, the Gas Turbine Research Establishment Kaveri, could eventually be used in AMCA.

AMCA, as planned, will be capable of super cruise (Mach 1+ speeds without afterburner) and have an active electronically scanned array radar.

Balaji says that once the engine is determined, it will take three or four more years to develop the aircraft.

Prior to the show, Balaji told FlightGlobal that a first flight for the AMCA is planned for 2025. This marks a notable retreat from the ADA’s position in 2013, when a first flight was expected by the end of the decade.

 

[tsunami]

So with in 5 days first flight shifted from 2030 to 2025? Also it is officially confirmed that no side weapon bays.

 

[Vijyes]

So with in 5 days first flight shifted from 2030 to 2025? Also it is officially confirmed that no side weapon bays.

I think he wants to play safe while setting expectations. The main pain point is engine. With the engine issue resolved, things can move ahead pretty fast. With uncertainty of Kaveri engine, it will be difficult to have a proper time frame. Air frame etc are easy. Even AESA radars are doable as the primitive version of it (AWACS) has been done. The engine is the hardest part and is the backbone. The other details like RAM paint are irrelevant as paint can be reapplied or changed very easily.

If Kaveri engine is done, consider AMCA or any other indigenous plane as done. Even Pakistan can make JF17 planes except for engine

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Pakistan can make JF17 planes except for engine

Sorry, they don't manufacture avionics, thrust vectoring controls, mission softwares, fuselages or modules.
even raw materials because of metallurgical limitations.
Though, they assemble them.

 

[singh100ful]

Even Pakistan can make JF17 planes except for engine

NO they don't.
They only do what HAL used to do all these years, assembling the aircraft from Knock down kits.

 

[tharun]

Lockheed Martin F-22: RFP issued in October 1986 and prototype done by 1991 and first flight in 1997 and introduction to Air force in 2005.....Total 10 years for first flight and 20 years for induction.
F-35: Development contract singed in November 1996....In 2001 X-35 was awarded demonstration...First flight in 2006 and induction started in 2016............Same total 10 years for prototype and first flight and 20 years for induction.

AMCA: Unofficial work started in 2008 but officially in 2011...so it will take minimum of 10 years for prototype means 2021...and first flight by 2025.

 

[Vijyes]

Lockheed Martin F-22: RFP issued in October 1986 and prototype done by 1991 and first flight in 1997 and introduction to Air force in 2005.....Total 10 years for first flight and 20 years for induction.
F-35: Development contract singed in November 1996....In 2001 X-35 was awarded demonstration...First flight in 2006 and induction started in 2016............Same total 10 years for prototype and first flight and 20 years for induction.

AMCA: Unofficial work started in 2008 but officially in 2011...so it will take minimum of 10 years for prototype means 2021...and first flight by 2025.

The problem with F22 and F35 were engines. The time was actually to get an engine. Maximum time is for engine making. If we get kaveri, which was started in 1990, our job will be done. The question is not about AMCA but Kaveri.

 

[WolfPack86]

Probably The Most Significant Take-Away From Aero India 2017

Take a moment to look at the image above. Savour it. This was one among hundreds of posters plastered everywhere at the recently concluded Aero India show. And yet, in it lies what is possibly the most meaningful indicators from India’s indigenous efforts in military aviation. We’ll get to the specifics in a bit. First, some background.

A few days ago, Livefist’s big update on India’s fifth generation AMCA programme brought the spotlight back on the concept fighter, amidst reports of trouble in Indo-Russian talks to resolve the stalemate plaguing the proposed joint Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). On the latter front, things have reached a stage where some abrupt and spectacular suggestions have been made by Rostec, the Russian state holding company, including that the FGFA has nothing to do with the under-flight-test T-50/PAK FA (will be a totally separate fighter), and that Russia will be partnering with India on the AMCA. To be sure, there are several tech partnership suitors for the AMCA, and Russia happens for the moment to be only one of them.

Livefist’s update on the AMCA drew a huge amount of interest (and readership), unsurprising given it is one of two most ambitious active aviation efforts in the country — the other being the related Ghatak stealth UCAV. But while we were looking through the huge number of images we captured at the just concluded Aero India 2017 show, we chanced upon the above slide that we found tucked away in a corner of the small Defence Avionice Research Establishment (DARE) stall in the DRDO pavilion.

While we’ve reported extensively on the AMCA’s intended stealth characteristics, including serpentine intakes and internal weapons bays, the slide you see here is, in Livefist’s view, the most significant and revealing set of details on the deep research being done in what is by far the most challenging part of the AMCA’s design: active phased array technology. This comprises the spread of separate sensor elements embedded across the AMCA’s airframe in a way that consolidates overall stealth and lowers all aspects of the aircraft’s final signature, while making use of that very spread to provide a heightened degree of sensor coverage and domain awareness to the pilot. (Think of the spread like a dashboard camera that’s actually a network of cameras situated all around the car, providing the driver with a wide sweep view of what’s happening around the vehicle).

Antenna elements as part of the phased array spread will come up for their first torture test with the full scale AMCA mock-up soon in Hyderabad. And getting it right is non-negotiable, especially since this is technology no company or country will conceivably share.

The 16 element linear and 32 element planar array will either segue smoothly into the functionality of stealth or stick out sorely and make the AMCA significantly more visible across electromagnetic spectra. In other words, it isn’t just how well these little elements work separately, but how they work together — and above all, how well they are housed in the body of the aircraft so they don’t interfere with stealth.

‘Make of break technology’ in the words of a DARE scientist who spoke on condition of anonymity to Livefist. Antenna architecture, overall computational electrodynamics and the true integration of these elements with an airframe design that’s still in flux means there’s huge pressure to get it right. Indeed, this is research that could have spin-offs for the LCA Mk.2 programme as well.

While the AMCA is still in a design stage and awaiting sanction as a full-blown project, the slide you see here is affirmation that the most significant elements that will potentially make the AMCA a true fifth generation machine are deep in the works. This is research that will imbue the performance of India’s Ghatak UCAV too, considering the large amount of basic technological R&D feeding jointly into both programmes (as Livefist reported to you earlier, the AMCA and Ghatak are actually a joint lead-in project).

Tech partnerships on the AMCA will likely involve offsets-driven sensor packages and broad consultancies in the post-design phase, including flight test and airborne empirical studies new to India since this will be the country’s first stealth aircraft built at home. What those partnerships won’t include are the driving forces that compel the very stealth that the AMCA hopes to sport. The road ahead is a very long, hard one. But the slide above also establishes that there’s clarity of approach in at least the most crucial aspects of India’s most ambitious military aviation venture.
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017...gnificant-take-away-from-aero-india-2017.html

 

[Superdefender]

Breaking News, AMCA Project To Be Complected In 2019: Project Sources Confirmed

Posted on February 21, 2017 thestrategictimes
Posted in Aerospace News,
Airforce News, Indian Defence News


Noida: We recently contacted our source in HAL who is working with AMCA project, and we asked him about the comments made by ADA Chief recently about the timeline. He said that 2025 is the timeline given which is correct but what our “so-called’ journalists forgot to mention was that 2025 was not initial year but actually it’s the deadline given by MoD to ADA to make AMCA operational within the force. Though he said that AMCA’s Naval variant won’t come before 2025(prototype). But the main AMCA variant which is meant for Air-Force is definitely coming in 2019 as a prototype for it’s first flight. ADA modified the designs of AMCA which is the final design.

Now ADA-HAL is making 1:1 Model of AMCA for various tests related to stealthiness which would happen before the end of this year. This test will be the final procedure of AMCA before building it’s Prototype which would start from 2018.
we also tried to get status of all component’s development and we succeced.

Here’s the update of AMCA’s component’s current status:
No.~ Item ~ Status~ Since~ ETA
1~ Design ~ Done~ 2008 ~ ~2017
2 ~Stealth ~ Done~ 2010 ~ ~ 2017
3 ~Composites ~Ongoing~ 2010 ~2017
4 ~Control ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
5 ~Engine ~Ongoing~ 2017 ~2020
6 ~Avionics ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
7 ~Equipment ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
8 ~Radar ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2019+
9 ~Sensors ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
10 ~Cockpit ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018
11 ~EW & EC ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018

The Above Information is Highly Senstive and Cannot be Shared Without Proper Credit.

Source Link: http://thestrategictimes.com/breaking-news-amca-project-complected-2019-project-sources-confirmed/

 

[tsunami]

Breaking News, AMCA Project To Be Complected In 2019: Project Sources Confirmed

Posted on February 21, 2017 thestrategictimes
Posted in Aerospace News,
Airforce News, Indian Defence News


Noida: We recently contacted our source in HAL who is working with AMCA project, and we asked him about the comments made by ADA Chief recently about the timeline. He said that 2025 is the timeline given which is correct but what our “so-called’ journalists forgot to mention was that 2025 was not initial year but actually it’s the deadline given by MoD to ADA to make AMCA operational within the force. Though he said that AMCA’s Naval variant won’t come before 2025(prototype). But the main AMCA variant which is meant for Air-Force is definitely coming in 2019 as a prototype for it’s first flight. ADA modified the designs of AMCA which is the final design.

Now ADA-HAL is making 1:1 Model of AMCA for various tests related to stealthiness which would happen before the end of this year. This test will be the final procedure of AMCA before building it’s Prototype which would start from 2018.
we also tried to get status of all component’s development and we succeced.

Here’s the update of AMCA’s component’s current status:
No.~ Item ~ Status~ Since~ ETA
1~ Design ~ Done~ 2008 ~ ~2017
2 ~Stealth ~ Done~ 2010 ~ ~ 2017
3 ~Composites ~Ongoing~ 2010 ~2017
4 ~Control ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
5 ~Engine ~Ongoing~ 2017 ~2020
6 ~Avionics ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
7 ~Equipment ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
8 ~Radar ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2019+
9 ~Sensors ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
10 ~Cockpit ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018
11 ~EW & EC ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018

The Above Information is Highly Senstive and Cannot be Shared Without Proper Credit.

Source Link: http://thestrategictimes.com/breaking-news-amca-project-complected-2019-project-sources-confirmed/

OK even this is not realistic. This is true that final design for AMCA is almost completed. But there is still some possibility of changes. This is the reason they are making a full scale model to test it's RCS. So you can still expect some minor modification in the design after that. Full scale model testing will be done by the end of the year. If every thing is perfect then only we can start prototype building from starting of 2018. But you know how things goes here so IMO prototype building will only start from 2019 starting(May be even 2020 if there is some problem). Now Even if we start manufacturing prototype in 2018 itself first flight will at least take 4-5 years. That means 2022-23. I will not be surprised if it delays to 2024-25. Then you should expect another 5-7 years minimum for testing and development. So introduction will be only possible by 2030-32(Being optimistic. Otherwise 2035)

 

[Tarun Kumar]

People forget about engines and sensor fusion. Uncle will pull the plug on F114 when she sees India succeeding and Snecma M88 is underpowered. It took 10 years for LM to master sensor fusion and these guys have not even begn that aspect.

 

[Vijyes]

OK even this is not realistic. This is true that final design for AMCA is almost completed. But there is still some possibility of changes. This is the reason they are making a full scale model to test it's RCS. So you can still expect some minor modification in the design after that. Full scale model testing will be done by the end of the year. If every thing is perfect then only we can start prototype building from starting of 2018. But you know how things goes here so IMO prototype building will only start from 2019 starting(May be even 2020 if there is some problem). Now Even if we start manufacturing prototype in 2018 itself first flight will at least take 4-5 years. That means 2022-23. I will not be surprised if it delays to 2024-25. Then you should expect another 5-7 years minimum for testing and development. So introduction will be only possible by 2030-32(Being optimistic. Otherwise 2035)

Look at Indian history :
In 1947, india didn't gain independence but was gifted it by British due to WW2 burden. Does anyone think that British were so naive that they would give it without conditions? Why do you think Nehru became PM despite being highly unpopular?
In 1965, Shastri died in Tashkent. And Indira immediately became PM. In 1967 israel war, Indira showed her allegiance to Soviet backed arabs. Isn't it clear that Indira git Shastri killed in a deal?
In 1967, Homi Bhabha was killed immediately after announcing that India is close to a bomb
In 1975, just after smiling buddha test, Allahabad HC annulled Indira's MP membership on utterly flimsy grounds. Isn't it too suspicious and appears like CIA backed work? Also, who funded the janata party all of a sudden?
In 1980, sanjay gandhi was mysteriously killed in chopper accident. Doesn't it look like CIA?
In 1984, the khalistanis who killed Indira were openly encouraged in UK, US and Canada. Is it just a coincidence that Indira was advised by some insider to not remove her sikh bodyguards?
In 1991,LTTE which killed Sanjiv was openly funded and supplied by the west. They even supplied drones to LTTE. Prabhakaran had converted to Christianity and had allowed free pass to missionaries in his elam as part of a deal with west. Do you think Prabhakaran would kill Rajiv without the permission of his handlers?
Subramanian Swamy had said that Sonia was supplying lebanon militants with weapons? What was her business?
Again, after Rajiv's death, Narasimha Rao became PM and Sonia wasn't even active. Then or even today Sonia was never a charismatic leader. She is not even intelligent just like her children. In such a scenario who made her the head of congress? If we look at it properly, just like Manmohan was made a puppet PM, Sonia was made a puppet head. Who is the puppeteer pulling the strings of Sonia?

Indian incompetence, islamic appeasement is because India was never ruled by indigenous rulers but foreign stooges. With Modi at the helm, there is no longer any incompetency. So, people who think HAL or DRDO is useless and incapable of doing anything useful, think again if that is the same under Modi

 

[Flame Thrower]

AMCA in 2019 seems what LCA in 2001...

IOC in 2025 seems possible
FOC in 2025 is highly optimistic and near impossible
AMCA in IAF by 2030 seems possible.....

 

[Akshay_Fenix]

MoD putting a deadline on projects, now this is something new which I have never heard in my lifetime.

 

[Pandora]

Wel how they are suppose to use thrust vectors control when the GE 414 EPE is almost a done deal. until they choose Ef 200 TX or Some variant of kaveri engine with thrust vector (highly unlikely) .This feature will be missing from AMCA.

 

[airtel]

Wel how they are suppose to use thrust vectors control when the GE 414 EPE is almost a done deal. until they choose Ef 200 TX or Some variant of kaveri engine with thrust vector (highly unlikely) .This feature will be missing from AMCA.

Russians developed a 3-d thrust vectoring technology which can be used on any Engine .

India will buy that technology .

http://idrw.org/gtre-and-klimov-agree-to-develop-multi-axis-thrust-vectoring-nozzle/

 

[Anikastha]

Look at Indian history :
In 1947, india didn't gain independence but was gifted it by British due to WW2 burden. Does anyone think that British were so naive that they would give it without conditions? Why do you think Nehru became PM despite being highly unpopular?
In 1965, Shastri died in Tashkent. And Indira immediately became PM. In 1967 israel war, Indira showed her allegiance to Soviet backed arabs. Isn't it clear that Indira git Shastri killed in a deal?
In 1967, Homi Bhabha was killed immediately after announcing that India is close to a bomb
In 1975, just after smiling buddha test, Allahabad HC annulled Indira's MP membership on utterly flimsy grounds. Isn't it too suspicious and appears like CIA backed work? Also, who funded the janata party all of a sudden?
In 1980, sanjay gandhi was mysteriously killed in chopper accident. Doesn't it look like CIA?
In 1984, the khalistanis who killed Indira were openly encouraged in UK, US and Canada. Is it just a coincidence that Indira was advised by some insider to not remove her sikh bodyguards?
In 1991,LTTE which killed Sanjiv was openly funded and supplied by the west. They even supplied drones to LTTE. Prabhakaran had converted to Christianity and had allowed free pass to missionaries in his elam as part of a deal with west. Do you think Prabhakaran would kill Rajiv without the permission of his handlers?
Subramanian Swamy had said that Sonia was supplying lebanon militants with weapons? What was her business?
Again, after Rajiv's death, Narasimha Rao became PM and Sonia wasn't even active. Then or even today Sonia was never a charismatic leader. She is not even intelligent just like her children. In such a scenario who made her the head of congress? If we look at it properly, just like Manmohan was made a puppet PM, Sonia was made a puppet head. Who is the puppeteer pulling the strings of Sonia?

Indian incompetence, islamic appeasement is because India was never ruled by indigenous rulers but foreign stooges. With Modi at the helm, there is no longer any incompetency. So, people who think HAL or DRDO is useless and incapable of doing anything useful, think again if that is the same under Modi

Now question is will modi be able to defend his chair in 2k18?
In andhra tdp-bjp alliance is getting faded. If congress comes to power...there goes shining India dream.
Congress will give up self respect for sake of gandhi giri.
Fcuk

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

 

[Vijyes]

Now question is will modi be able to defend his chair in 2k18?
In andhra tdp-bjp alliance is getting faded. If congress comes to power...there goes shining India dream.
Congress will give up self respect for sake of gandhi giri.
Fcuk

Sent from my ASUS_Z00LD using Tapatalk

Saudi is funding congress but that will not be sufficient to stop Modi. In telangana, BJP has much bigger potential and hence is going on its own way. BJP hasn't split with TDP in AP. Also, Orissa, West Bengal, Tamil Nadu looks very promising to BJP.
There is no alternative to Modi as of now and likely ever