Re: Why Rafale is a Big Mistake
I expect something better from a DFI technocrat as you claim yourself... How do one quantify "proper testing" ? Was Arjun not properly tested by Army ?? nor the the much criticized LCA ? How many accident did LCA have till now ?? You are a biased person hell bend upon criticizing DRDO and other institutions... may be motivated something from your personal experience from them...
Oh please. I am all for DRDO to succeed. I have even supported DRDO's existence in my discussions with Ray sir who said DRDO needs to be shut down. I know and understand the importance of DRDO.
It doesn't matter how good the Arjun performs today. It is 15 years late. It doesn't matter how safe LCA is. It is not as capable as what IAF needs. Even LCA is 15 years late.
Both LCA and Arjun have requirements that date back to 1985. There is another aircraft which dates back to 1985 and is nearing obsolescence in the US, the F-22. The Americans have already started the procedures to replace the F-22. This is how threats evolve.
How do you know I do not understand anything ?? I may not be a technocrat like yourself but do understand what one it upto in the garb of criticism...
Because anybody supporting LCA over Rafale doesn't know what he is talking about.
You do not understand the basic essence of the quotation... I expected much from you...
Sorry to disappoint you. Now go to the Know your Rafale thread and start reading from page 1.
The quote was made when the British ruled the country and Indian products needed to be supported. He never said anything about the army buying from DRDO.
Your criticism is not constructive and are meant for insulting the peoples working in those organization and that is fully apparent from your posts which I have been following for some years now...
Oh, right. When you have idiots in the forum you are going to have to be harsh when dealing with them or they don't understand.
Constructive criticism is meant for people working in the industry, not for people who think they know what DRDO is. My criticisms are mainly aimed at not letting the armed forces personnel get killed because some moron behind a computer thinks DRDO makes world class stuff when he hasn't even seen the gates of a DRDO lab.
Also there is no difference between constructive and destructive criticism here. What do you think are constructive criticisms? You can do constructive criticism when a little kid makes a mistake. When it comes to corporations there is no difference. The ---- up here is people bring in their emotions when none is needed.
Nobody is constructively criticizing Union Carbide, are they? Oops, some guy messed up and a lot of people died. Maybe they should be given a chance too. After all, lives of people, winning and losing wars, people forget such things over time after all. Maybe Union Carbide will learn from the mistake and do better. How's this for constructive criticism?
Let's replace that with DRDO. Oh, we had 2000 troops standing there with DRDO equipment which was inducted in a rush. The enemy was approaching while our troops were dug in. Turns out the ammunition was designed poorly. The enemy rolled over the base killing all 2000 troops. Oops. DRDO messed up. Maybe they will fix things in the future. Let's give them another chance as well.
Heck we were lucky we didn't go to war a few years ago with DRDO made ammunition which was then destroyed by the army because they were ----ed up.
Army's Armour Drives - Defence and Security of India
This ordnance shortage was also triggered by the destruction 2003 onwards of 150,000-200,000 T 72M1 AMK340 rounds worth around Rs 7 billion due to a combination of defective manufacturing and negligence in storing.
You see here? What would have happened had we gone to war against Pakistan during Operation Parakram with defective shells? You tell me how many troops would have died in the process.
Do you know how this was fixed? DRDO did nothing. We had to import from the Russians.
And when was this fixed? Only this year. A good 10 years later.
India, Russia sign Rs 2,600 cr deal for anti-tank ammunition | Business Line
India has signed a deal worth over Rs. 2,600 crore with Russia to procure 66,000 anti-tank shells to meet the shortfall of critical ammunition faced by its armoured fleet including the latest T-90 tanks.
So, after 150-200k shells were destroyed we are replacing them a good 10 years later. So, what happened to DRDO's great products that we have to resort to importing a shell that was made in the '80s? What do you want the army to do? They bought the indigenous shells, didn't they? What happened after that?
This is what all you people do, only talk. Talk, talk, talk and talk without knowing anything.
After all this we will still have some dumbass who will come up and say why we still import shells and ammunition. Of course, they blame it on the military.
You don't understand how this forum works when it comes to DRDO. Nationalists think everything from DRDO should be bought, I think everything that works and passes the tests in time while still being relevant should be inducted. Deadlines should be maintained.
Do you see me criticizing Akash, Brahmos etc? No. Do you see them inducted in the armed forces? Yes.
Do you see me criticizing LCA, Arjun etc? Yes. Do you seem them properly inducted in the armed forces? No.
Do you even want me to begin criticizing the AMK-340 shells? Hell no. Maybe we should make thousands more just for kicks.
You see where I'm getting at? I don't blindly support the DRDO. I understand where they are good, I understand where they will become good eventually and I know where they are messed up. So, when nationalists support the induction of something that failed, then I am going to speak against it. The only problem here is practically everything DRDO makes falls under this last category.
LCA and Arjun are one of those. There is no point making something 15 years after when it was supposed to be inducted. Threats evolve with time, so do requirements. The requirement changes made by the forces have attempted to keep it relevant, but that doesn't mean it will be successful. If the Americans think the F-22 needs to be replaced, then what about the LCA? What if we go to war against the US in the near future?
So, where is LCA Mk2? It was supposed to be flying early this year.
Vivekananda was relevant 100 years back, He is now and He will be 100 years and more in future... rest assured about it...
Somethings don't apply to DRDO. I suppose people should try firing the AMK-340 from a T-72 before talking about DRDO.
One or two successes doesn't mean their failures should be given equal importance.
We have the responsibility to give our soldiers the equipment "they" think they need, not what "we" think they need.
