Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
Al Khalid MBT of #Pakistan to get anti thermal/IR coatings from Intermat Defence. 1) minimization of thermal sig 2) alteration of thermal sig to confuse 3) breaking or at least delaying Lock On by advisory 4) low RCS against NIR-MIR-FIR waveband 5) better camouflage
These coating are waste against new generation Thermal cameras

Nevertheless SAR of aircrafts easily pick up them from.miles

There's is no way one can hide Mbt's in modern warfare

Then there engines noise alone will give there location from miles apart
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,536
Likes
10,258
Country flag
These coating are waste against new generation Thermal cameras

Nevertheless SAR of aircrafts easily pick up them from.miles

There's is no way one can hide Mbt's in modern warfare

Then there engines noise alone will give there location from miles apart
Unlike out T-90s they have APU now, so in dug-in postions they can switch off their engines.
 

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
Unlike out T-90s they have APU now, so in dug-in postions they can switch off their engines.
Dug in makes them vulnerable to CAS aircraft they cannot hide from SAR
And MBRL and Artillery fire

Tanks formation doesn't fly alone there will apache and CAS Recon before Armoured invasion

These coating cannot fool Focal panel array IIR cameras

This Cold war era statergy which to old in this modern ERA
 

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,536
Likes
10,258
Country flag
Dug in makes them vulnerable to CAS aircraft they cannot hide from SAR
And MBRL and Artillery fire

Tanks formation doesn't fly alone there will apache and CAS Recon before Armoured invasion

These coating cannot fool Focal panel array IIR cameras

This Cold war era statergy which to old in this modern ERA
I'm not sure in convention war again capable enemy every single Apache won't be brought down if they fly ahead... You have a point, but i think you're overlooking some aspects to feel right.
 

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
I'm not sure in convention war again capable enemy every single Apache won't be brought down if they fly ahead... You have a point, but i think you're overlooking some aspects to feel right.
I am just explaining situations
All Rapid armour Aliments have Recon + CAS aircrafts and Artillery and MBRL and EW Intelligence and Signal regiment

MBT's itself is outdated concept in modern warfare

Tanks are just used as Aliment of power with moving Infantry that is Ww2 and Cold war statergy


Its Easy Take out Entire Tank battalion by Just 2-3 CBU-105 or Direct MBRL fire

Rather Put forward Armoured division against another
It's modern doctrine of war

In todays EW environment
And Satellite mapping
These ww2 style battles are Just outdated concept.

Modern SAR radar of Rafale pick these tanks 300 km way or modern AEWS

The Intelligence will then transfered to BMS of Army
That will utilize best possible aspect to counter threat

I am just sayingbin Today's Modern SIGENT environment
Such Cold war style tactics are not probable
 
Last edited:

JBH22

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
3,926
Likes
3,324
I am just explaining situations
All Rapid armour Aliments have Recon + CAS aircrafts and Artillery and MBRL and EW Intelligence and Signal regiment

MBT's itself is outdated concept in modern warfare

Tanks are just used as Aliment of power with moving Infantry that is Ww2 and Cold war statergy


Its Easy Take out Entire Tank battalion by Just 2-3 CBU-105 or Direct MBRL fire

Rather Put forward Armoured division against another
It's modern doctrine of war

In todays EW environment
And Satellite mapping
These ww2 style battles are Just outdated concept.

Modern SAR radar of Rafale pick these tanks 300 km way or modern AEWS

The Intelligence will then transfered to BMS of Army
That will utilize best possible aspect to counter threat

I am just sayingbin Today's Modern SIGENT environment
Such Cold war style tactics are not probable
I'm sure Russians are not Dumbo to invest in new tank Armata if they thought tank days are over. You need tanks to hold ground. Apache will give cover 10mins on battlefield and go back for reload.
T-90 needs a MLU to stay top notch. Given budget crunch high time to consider reducing tank forces. Small but highly modernised force.
 

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
I'm sure Russians are not Dumbo to invest in new tank Armata if they thought tank days are over. You need tanks to hold ground. Apache will give cover 10mins on battlefield and go back for reload.
T-90 needs a MLU to stay top notch. Given budget crunch high time to consider reducing tank forces. Small but highly modernised force.
Russians had Lack funds to invest in There airforce
And Navy
In era of stand off and Cluster Sensor fuzed weapons like CBU-105

MBT's are vulnerable to CAS aircrafts
That why USA invested so much in A-10
MRLS


Also modern MBRL and MLRS can take out entire Division of MBT's in seconds

MBT's is more of Heavy infantry fighting vehicle
It was used for that role only in wars

Firepower comes from MLRS and Tactical missile systems
Air force which Anahilate your enemies within matter of Minutes its also covers long area

MBT'S are more of infratry support weapon

I don't think we need more 3000 tanks

We need invest more on Airpower and MLRS
And Tactical system that can give advantage of over adversary
 

JBH22

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
3,926
Likes
3,324
Russians had Lack funds to invest in There airforce
And Navy
In era of stand off and Cluster Sensor fuzed weapons like CBU-105

MBT's are vulnerable to CAS aircrafts
That why USA invested so much in A-10
MRLS


Also modern MBRL and MLRS can take out entire Division of MBT's in seconds

MBT's is more of Heavy infantry fighting vehicle
It was used for that role only in wars

Firepower comes from MLRS and Tactical missile systems
Air force which Anahilate your enemies within matter of Minutes its also covers long area

MBT'S are more of infratry support weapon

I don't think we need more 3000 tanks

We need invest more on Airpower and MLRS
And Tactical system that can give advantage of over adversary
Russia is a continental power all invasion comes through land mass.
uSA and UK are naval power they project force outside their sphere of influence.

Their strategy reflect weapon design. India is a unique case having been invaded by hordes of barbarians on western front and also by british.

Come what you say our adversaries are fielding tanks in thousands you will need tanks to fight them.unless you plan to use tactical nukes
 
Last edited:

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
Russia is a continental power all invasion comes through land mass.
uSA and UK are naval power they project force outside their sphere of influence.

Their strategy reflect weapon design. India is a unique case having been invaded by hordes of barbarians on western front and also by british.

Come what you say our adversaries are fielding tanks in thousands you will need tanks to fight them.unless you plan to use tactical nukes
Russian are not any kind of power any more
They just legacy of there Coldwar legacy

In modern era economy also matter and numbers of allies

By end this decade even india will surpass them in terms technologies
In many areas we already did

Today in modern warfare air power dominates by land

Like said field thousand tanks doesn't make them
Any stronger if your Edge in air power and Fire power

A Single CBU-105 or Barrage of Smerch is enough to counter batalllion of MBT's

Modern Sensor fused Munitions and rocket propelled Systems gives you Advantage in fore power
If take stand off it is over kill.

Today in modern warfare having huge military is a logistical nightmare it only trains your funds


Like Case of India 40 % of our budget drains in Salaries and Renumarations

OK let's take into account experience of
Latest conventional war
Which was

Us invasion of Iraq
Look at how many forces US 🇺🇸 pitted
3 lakh against 1.3 million
And Iraq has huge amount soviet style equipments
That doesn't saved them from anahilatikn


The massive use of Air power and Calculated
Strikes made them March into Bagdad in just 4-5 days
 
Last edited:

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
6,204
Likes
2,831
Country flag
The economy has always played an important role in wars.
In modern wars (since 1853-56), technology decides everything.
Pakistani and Indian tanks are at approximately the same level of development.
This applies to MBT of all countries. Therefore, one should not pay attention only to tank confrontation. It is secondary.
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,069
Likes
11,032
Country flag

Pakistan Army has bought 230 MaxxPro MRAPs. This will grealtly decrease our casulties by IEDS of TTP/ISIS/BSO.

Some of the 230 MaxxPro MRAPs have also been deployed to guard military installations like PAC Kamra.
#Pakistan has received 80 #Italian Puma 6x6 APV from #Italy ,These APV would be mostly give to F.C particularly to #FC #Balochistan to replace Mitsubishi and toyota 4x4 whichs tood no chance in ambush from #BLA & #TTP it can carry 6 troops +1 driver
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
269
Likes
491
Country flag
These coating are waste against new generation Thermal cameras

Nevertheless SAR of aircrafts easily pick up them from.miles

There's is no way one can hide Mbt's in modern warfare

Then there engines noise alone will give there location from miles apart
These will be for specialised units. I don't think it's supposed to have mass coatings. In situations where a 3-4 tanks are.hiding these coatings will help.
 

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
Al-Khalid & VT-4 armour layout.

IMG_20200924_202506.jpg

18XSD9Y.png
Pathetic Protection Even Milan 2T

MILAN 2T missile penetrates 880 mm of rolled homogenous armor behind ERA. It has a range of some 2000 metres and a hit probability of 94%. Against Al Khalid ERA has a protection level of 350-450mm vs APFSDS and 450-550mm vs HEAT
1600970995303.png
 

ArgonPrime

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Messages
710
Likes
859
Country flag
Pathetic Protection Even Milan 2T

MILAN 2T missile penetrates 880 mm of rolled homogenous armor behind ERA. It has a range of some 2000 metres and a hit probability of 94%. Against Al Khalid ERA has a protection level of 350-450mm vs APFSDS and 450-550mm vs HEAT
View attachment 60288
So you wanna engage a Gen 3 MBT with a SACLOS missile and that too from the front??!! Well....alright. It's just that after you press the button, you'll have mere seconds to live given it's manned by even a half-decent crew.
 

WARREN SS

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
3,011
Likes
9,330
Country flag
So you wanna engage a Gen 3 MBT with a SACLOS missile and that too from the front??!! Well....alright. It's just that after you press the button, you'll have mere seconds to live given it's manned by even a half-decent crew.
It depends Where To use Salcos Platform If the Tank Formations is Moving In Offensive Formation Then Defense Always Has Stealth And Opportunity Of First Hit
Hezbollah effectively Took Down Multiple Merkava's Similarly
Same in Syria Multiple Syrian Tanks were In-effective

Milat 2T has Effective range Of 2km Its can easily Operated by 2 Man teams
Same Strategy can be used against Chinese tanks in ladakh Using Mountain Cover

1600972753523.png




Nevertheless We Talking Here About
Armor Protection Vs ATGM's
 
Last edited:

Bleh

Laughing member
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2017
Messages
3,536
Likes
10,258
Country flag
So you wanna engage a Gen 3 MBT with a SACLOS missile and that too from the front??!! Well....alright. It's just that after you press the button, you'll have mere seconds to live given it's manned by even a half-decent crew.
Ya'll I don't understand why the mount the ATGM on a jeep. It's not a recoilless rifle anymore!
Use a tank hull with thick upper glacis, like a proper tank destroyer would.

Turkey takes the medal again...
34984.jpg

...or go full robotic. "Everthing coming from that way is enemy" has a surprising easy AI algorithm.
IMG_20200925_081015.jpg
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
8,069
Likes
11,032
Country flag
IDEAS 2018: Heavy Industries Taxila unveils new Viper Infantry Fighting Vehicle

The Viper is a further development of the Talha armoured personnel carrier, which is a modern variant of the well-known American M-113 APC, produced in this country for a long time.


The vehicle integrates a remote control combat module which mainly incorporates Russian systems. It features a 2A42 30 mm automatic cannon, an NSV 12.7 mm machine gun mounted above the gun, and two AT-5B Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles on the left side of the turret. A digital optronic sensor also provides EO/IR sights for the gunner and commander. This modular optronic mast is ideal for long day and night surveillance missions.


The Viper can carry up to nine dismounted soldier and a crew of three: a driver, a gunner and the vehicle’s commander.


In its basic version, the Viper has a MTOW of 11,000 kg. It is powered by a 360 hp diesel engine, providing a maximum speed of 62 km/h.


As it can be seen on the pictures, the HIT designers have seriously worked on enhancing the protection. Besides extensive armor plates, the vehicle is also equipped with two series of four smoke grenade launchers mounted on each side of the 2A42 gun. The crew compartment includes suspended seats for a better survivability against IEDs and mines.


According to local media, the Viper IFV will undergo acceptability trials soon.


Heavy Industries Taxila is one of the largest defence manufacturer in Pakistan and has grown into a military industrial complex since its foundation 1971.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top