Akash Surface-to-air Missile

tejas warrior

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tharun

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RIM-66 missile which has same weight as Akash but has range of 74-150 km and speed of 3.5 mach.
 

Kshithij

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RIM-66 missile which has same weight as Akash but has range of 74-150 km and speed of 3.5 mach.
It is a dual thrust engine. For that matter even Barak-8 is having longer range for a smaller weight. RIM 66 is not Ramjet. Akash is Ramjet. Akash with a seeker is likely to have much more guaranteed kill due to its speed always being 3Mach despite maneuvering.
 

Steven Rogers

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It is a dual thrust engine. For that matter even Barak-8 is having longer range for a smaller weight. RIM 66 is not Ramjet. Akash is Ramjet. Akash with a seeker is likely to have much more guaranteed kill due to its speed always being 3Mach despite maneuvering.
What is the difference between the dual thrust and dual pulse rocket propulsion.

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Steven Rogers

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It is a dual thrust engine. For that matter even Barak-8 is having longer range for a smaller weight. RIM 66 is not Ramjet. Akash is Ramjet. Akash with a seeker is likely to have much more guaranteed kill due to its speed always being 3Mach despite maneuvering.
Barak Has dual pulse rocket motor not dual thrust motor.

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Kshithij

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Barak Has dual pulse rocket motor not dual thrust motor.

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Yes, I was just saying that it was not Ramjet. In RAMJEt, the speed is sustained whereas in dual thrust, the speed is not sustained and will be poor if it does maneuvering. The speed also continually decelerates unlike Ramjet. Hence this is now outdated and obsolete.

Dual pulse on the other hand has initial radar guided trajectory and then has another motor in the last lap to move very fast. Initially, the speed is Mach 2 and then slowly becomes subsonic while last 10-5 seconds, its speed rises to 4+ Mach and homes in fast.

Ramjet has sustained speed even after maneuvering and will always outpace the enemy craft.
 

leap-x

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Yes, I was just saying that it was not Ramjet. In RAMJEt, the speed is sustained whereas in dual thrust, the speed is not sustained and will be poor if it does maneuvering. The speed also continually decelerates unlike Ramjet. Hence this is now outdated and obsolete.

Dual pulse on the other hand has initial radar guided trajectory and then has another motor in the last lap to move very fast. Initially, the speed is Mach 2 and then slowly becomes subsonic while last 10-5 seconds, its speed rises to 4+ Mach and homes in fast.

Ramjet has sustained speed even after maneuvering and will always outpace the enemy craft.
that is wrong and misleading. Akash is probably the last SAM using ramjet. Even Soviet union/Russia SAM did not use ramjet after SAM-6.there is a reason for that
20081012_358833fe7db9222ead99lwEzSZCMhbwO.jpg.thumb.jpg

here is a simple illustration of ramjet。

Air was sucked in and compressed,mixing with gas(of solid rocket fuel),shooting out of nozzle.
that is how thrust come from. at low speed,there is not enough air sucked in, not compressed enough, thus not enough thrust. So a obvious weakness of ramjet sam is acceleration. At first it needs to overcome drag and gravity with insufficient thrust.

Also it is not that effective against an object with high maneuverability: high maneuver cost speed.speed down,thrust down.
So basically opposite to everything you said.
 

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jat

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here is a simple illustration of ramjet。

Air was sucked in and compressed,mixing with gas(of solid rocket fuel),shooting out of nozzle.
that is how thrust come from. at low speed,there is not enough air sucked in, not compressed enough, thus not enough thrust. So a obvious weakness of ramjet sam is acceleration. At first it needs to overcome drag and gravity with insufficient thrust.

Also it is not that effective against an object with high maneuverability: high maneuver cost speed.speed down,thrust down.
So basically opposite to everything you said.
Cost and maintenance is a factor. Brahmos, and Akash most likely use the rockets. Its a hunch. If you notice Akash production took off at near the same time Brahmos production did. My hunch tells me that the development is related. While their is significant disadvantages as you have listed, none of them say, it would make an ineffective SAM. We are seeing longer range missiles being developed that are air breathing. KH-31 are still in development, and China just got its production copy?
Seems the biggest obsticle for such a missile is maintenance, as it is liquid fueled? Which begs the question, why isn't solid feul approached since its easier to make?
I think, there must have been a bigger picture.
At the very least, at least the Akash SAM project worked and is in production. Its growth potential is still significant.
 

jat

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Also the Akash's ramjet does provide an advantage of not just speed, sustained but range! thats important. My guess is that it provides a significant increase of range compared to none air breathing missiles of similar weight.
 

jat

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RIM-66 missile which has same weight as Akash but has range of 74-150 km and speed of 3.5 mach.
Akash's range is understated. Its real range is not given. Same with Rim missiles, and of which variant of RIM are you referring too?
If anything a airbreathing missile will have better range in most cases to a none air breathing missile. Although cost could be different. The biggest disadvantage i see with Akash is its peek altitude which could be increased with a second stage.
 

leap-x

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Cost and maintenance is a factor. Brahmos, and Akash most likely use the rockets. Its a hunch. If you notice Akash production took off at near the same time Brahmos production did. My hunch tells me that the development is related. While their is significant disadvantages as you have listed, none of them say, it would make an ineffective SAM. We are seeing longer range missiles being developed that are air breathing. KH-31 are still in development, and China just got its production copy?
Seems the biggest obsticle for such a missile is maintenance, as it is liquid fueled? Which begs the question, why isn't solid feul approached since its easier to make?
I think, there must have been a bigger picture.
At the very least, at least the Akash SAM project worked and is in production. Its growth potential is still significant.
China does have a copy. But it is fired from airplane, with a initial speed and height.It is used to hit radar or ships(slow or fixed target). gravity will accelerate the missile instead of slowing it down.
While SAM needs to climb to hit target with high speed and maneuverability
One can easily understand the difference.

Akash does not used liquid fuel.
 
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leap-x

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Also the Akash's ramjet does provide an advantage of not just speed, sustained but range! thats important. My guess is that it provides a significant increase of range compared to none air breathing missiles of similar weight.
ramjet does have advantage of range。However,we do not see that on AKash
 

Steven Rogers

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ramjet does have advantage of range。However,we do not see that on AKash
Akash has Solid fueled Ramjet with less Burnout time than you think it should be.

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jat

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China does have a copy. But it is fired from airplane, with a initial speed and height.It is used to hit radar or ships(slow or fixed target). gravity will accelerate the missile instead of slowing it down.
While SAM needs to climb to hit target with high speed and maneuverability
One can easily understand the difference.

Akash does not used liquid fuel.
So what your saying is the Akash can easily turn into a air to surface missile? Because yea, that being my point. Akash, has decent acceleration from the videos, not enough to be quick reaction surface to air missile. But that again, a heavy missile has that problem. That being said, weather its a big issue is unknown. What we know is that it is still an effective missile. The range is certainly augmented with ramjet technology.
Also good to know Akash is solid fuel. Would that also apply to Brahmos?
Also, I think you're overlooking the fact of production and costs. The Indians are pretty stingy about failed projects. Hence they squeeze the maximum. They are not stressed to meet requirements like cold war rivals were.
 

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