Akash Surface-to-air Missile

[praneet.bajpaie]

Yeah............ and this expert doesn't know what is Akash. As per him so called failure of Akash (MRSAM) had led Army to look into SRSAM.

This media house has a history of anti DRDO and anti Make in India articles.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its interesting to note variation of platforms for AKASH SAM involved in the project ..

All these Platforms had to go through winter and summer technical trails before accepted by user, At the end only two of these platform got selected ..

 

[garg_bharat]

From the article

The Army had initially ordered two Akash regiments, with six firing batteries of a project cost of `19,500 crore. But in less than a year, it has changed its opinion on the home-made missile.

“Army has proposed a composite approach of procuring SRSAM from globally and simultenously technological improvement of Akash missile system,” Army headquarters told The Sunday Standard.


If this is untrue, the Armed forces should go after this media house and this journo for defamation and false information.

Nobody denies that srsam is needed.
Army can upgrade its osa-m batteries with new radar and new missiles.

It can buy Spyder systems.

Army still needs Akash though improvement in Akash is a logical path.

The report does not say existing order is cancelled.

Even I feel that a new version of akash missile is needed.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army is raising at-least 5-6 regiment of MRSAM and 4-5 of SRSAM ..

Two Regiments for Akash is reserved, Their can be no changes in that ..

==============

OSA fall in QRSAM and their will be 8-12 regiments for it..

Army still needs Akash though improvement in Akash is a logical path.

Army can upgrade its osa-m batteries with new radar and new missiles.
.

 

[cobra commando]

India Successfully Test Fires Surface-To-Air Akash Missile

April 11, 2016
BALASORE: India today test fired its indigenously developed surface-to-air Akash missile from the Integrated Test Range (ITR) at Chandipur near Balasore. The missile targeted an unmanned air vehicle (UAV) named 'Banshee', an official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said. The missile, with a strike range of 25 km and capability to carry warhead of 60 kg, was test fired from the launch complex-3 of the ITR, he said. It is a medium-range surface-to- air anti-aircraft defence system developed by DRDO as part of the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme. Akash is powered by Ramjet- rocket propulsion system which renders thrust for the missile to intercept the target at supersonic speed without any retardation. It can fly at a supersonic speed ranging from Mach 2.8 to 3.5 and can engage aerial targets upto a range of approximately 25 km, the official said. More than three decades after the project was initiated, the missile was formally inducted into the Indian Air Force and the Army last year. Akash has the capability to neutralise aerial targets like fighter jets, cruise missiles and air-to-surface missiles. The last trial from this base was conducted on January 28.

India Successfully Test Fires Surface-To-Air Akash Missile

 

[garg_bharat]

Akash will shoot down cruise missiles and glide bombs. It has a powerful radar which is very difficult to jam.

An active seeker is not a perfect solution, as seeker of missile can be jammed from the ground.

Command guidance of Akash is not a defect. Different systems use different technologies - that does not make one system bad. Army should test Akash in different situations, including with presence of ground based jammers. If Army does not have such jammer, it can buy a unit from Russia.

Our forces suffer from a bad case of brochuritis. They think that whatever is written in a brochure of western product is true. Officers are unable to see marketing jargon. Actual performance is known only in testing, as western laser bombs failed in recent exercises.

 

[garg_bharat]

India will not win wars with such attitude of officers I warn. It is like a blind leading other blinds.

 

[Panjab47]

lot of it is false pride, Russia started with 50km sams in 60s. USa had shitty small nuke subs with subpar reactors.

Do they think we are some 22nd century (w/e calendar) world power being held back by 'politics'

Why buy foreign, when you know for a fact better will come out of Bharat-Varsh?

 

[charlie]

Akash will shoot down cruise missiles and glide bombs. It has a powerful radar which is very difficult to jam.

An active seeker is not a perfect solution, as seeker of missile can be jammed from the ground.

Command guidance of Akash is not a defect. Different systems use different technologies - that does not make one system bad. Army should test Akash in different situations, including with presence of ground based jammers. If Army does not have such jammer, it can buy a unit from Russia.

Our forces suffer from a bad case of brochuritis. They think that whatever is written in a brochure of western product is true. Officers are unable to see marketing jargon. Actual performance is known only in testing, as western laser bombs failed in recent exercises.

Pakistan will be using AN/ALQ-211(V)9 in future.

http://rf.harris.com/media/Advanced_Integrated_Defensive_Electronic_Warfare_Suite_tcm26-28659.pdf

Before you say anything please read this
http://www.hscott.net/DRFM.pdf

Don't know how good our Battery level Radar will perform against it, would help if anybody is able to find spec of BLR but I guess that will be a secret
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/4479-1/akash-info.pdf
CAR (3d) radar sounds better but don't know how that will perform either but GCC will slot to BLR, so BLR is our guy who needs to perform.

 

[porky_kicker]

a serious lapse on the part of DRDO regarding akash was the failure to anticipate the usefulness/utility of canister launched missile.

canister launched akash missile in 360 degree slewable inclined launchers like spyder would have cut down costs , ensured better maintenance , eliminated preflight testing etc , reduced logistics , reduced reload time , increased shelve life of missile etc etc.

would like drdo to work on cannister launched akash mk2 in addition to the other upgrades if possible

 

[porky_kicker]

Pakistan will be using AN/ALQ-211(V)9 in future.

http://rf.harris.com/media/Advanced_Integrated_Defensive_Electronic_Warfare_Suite_tcm26-28659.pdf

Before you say anything please read this
http://www.hscott.net/DRFM.pdf

Don't know how good our Battery level Radar will perform against it, would help if anybody is able to find spec of BLR but I guess that will be a secret
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/4479-1/akash-info.pdf
CAR (3d) radar sounds better but don't know how that will perform either but GCC will slot to BLR, so BLR is our guy who needs to perform.

according to my limited info

The DRFM based jammers primarily targets the air search radar
Rajendra is a multi-target and multi-function phased array fire control radar which has a range of about 80 km in search and will be the prime target for these jammers.
hypothetically here the AIDEWS (AN/ALQ-211(V)4) DRFM jammer will be intercepting the radar signal being sent out from the rajendra, and will then modify the signal by introducing false information about the target, and finally than re transmit the modified signal toward the rajendra. thus the rajendra will find it difficult to distinguish the altered signal from a legitimate target signal because the altered signal contains all the signatures and fingerprints of the original radar signal beamed from rajendra.( what we saw is both time domain and frequency domain manipulation of the rajendras radar signal )
therefor when rajendra goes to engage the target it sees nothing in that part of the sky where it had previously been misled into believing the target is.

life can be made miserable for DRFM based jammers like the one found in AIDEWS (AN/ALQ-211(V)4) if
LPI radar is used (They send complex waveforms that is like noise and can only be made sense with filtering, however mismatched filtering at the jammers end plus juggling of every parameter like frequency, PRF, modulation, pulse width at every moment and very randomly, will fail it)
if AESA radar are used (whose characteristics such as random scan pattern, random frequency, random PRF all make it very resistance to DFRM jamming)

but how much the rajendra is immune to DRFM based jammers i dont know.
DRDO uses DRFM technology and therefor should be well versed in its counter as well and must have implemented some to the PESA rajendra ECCM.

 

[porky_kicker]

according to my limited info

The DRFM based jammers primarily targets the air search radar
Rajendra is a multi-target and multi-function phased array fire control radar which has a range of about 80 km in search and will be the prime target for these jammers.
hypothetically here the AIDEWS (AN/ALQ-211(V)4) DRFM jammer will be intercepting the radar signal being sent out from the rajendra, and will then modify the signal by introducing false information about the target, and finally than re transmit the modified signal toward the rajendra. thus the rajendra will find it difficult to distinguish the altered signal from a legitimate target signal because the altered signal contains all the signatures and fingerprints of the original radar signal beamed from rajendra.( what we saw is both time domain and frequency domain manipulation of the rajendras radar signal )
therefor when rajendra goes to engage the target it sees nothing in that part of the sky where it had previously been misled into believing the target is.

life can be made miserable for DRFM based jammers like the one found in AIDEWS (AN/ALQ-211(V)4) if
LPI radar is used (They send complex waveforms that is like noise and can only be made sense with filtering, however mismatched filtering at the jammers end plus juggling of every parameter like frequency, PRF, modulation, pulse width at every moment and very randomly, will fail it)
if AESA radar are used (whose characteristics such as random scan pattern, random frequency, random PRF all make it very resistance to DFRM jamming)

but how much the rajendra is immune to DRFM based jammers i dont know.
DRDO uses DRFM technology and therefor should be well versed in its counter as well and must have implemented some to the PESA rajendra ECCM.

i strongly believe rajendra uses polarization information for discriminating false and real targets in ECCM role.:biggrin2:
The polarization style of retransmitted radar signal is decided by the transmitting antenna of the DRFM jammer, thus multiple RFTs (repeater false targets) created by the same jammer will share the uniform polarization information. This difference of polarization characteristic between two types of targets can then be used to detect and discriminate RFTs. :biggrin2:

if it turns out rajendra uses this technique for real then god save me.
and i am not guilty :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Akash is design under Army supervision for specific Army requirements, It cannot act on its own with the product ..

Akash is meant to shoot while moving, Canister cannot allow that ..

a serious lapse on the part of DRDO regarding akash was the failure to anticipate the usefulness/utility of canister launched missile.

would like drdo to work on cannister launched akash mk2 in addition to the other upgrades if possible

 

[Yumdoot]

Akash is meant to be a cheap SAM system. Seekers are claimed to be around 60% of the cost of a SAM system. So command guidance is the only way out. Putting a seeker on it defeats its primary purpose - that of providing effective Air Defence on the cheap. In any case if you want a seeker on it, you may as well drop the marging steel casing to get the fuller benefits, which is what Akash-2 SAM will do. The existing Akash-1 SAM, is and should be with command guidance only. Besides command guidance need not be treated as a problem because a large emitter has that much more power to burn through all the cluttering and deception. Smaller emitters like airborne Jammers always have to live with the problem of smaller power output. Time domain matching, frequency domain matching still may not be enough to cause a J-to-S masking. Power when required is a great asset. Notice the american jammers getting bigger and bigger.

Even against DRFM you will in future see co-located land based IRSTs. Coherent, co-located dual band radars are already a big headache for most airborne attackers. You can imagine the result yourself. With IRST sensing we have not even begun scratching the surface yet. There is a long journey to be covered and it will change the face of warfare.

Ship based IRSTs are already in extensive use.

US army is already walking along this route for land based IRSTs and the purpose includes sensing for UAVs etc but its obvious there are other applications limited only by line of sight just like a land based BLC/FCR:
defensemedianetwork.com/stories/u-s-army-looks-to-new-ground-based-sensors-to-track-both-uas-and-personnel-targets/

If people have seen the following video "SU 30 MKI - India's Air superiority Fighter Jet" after 3:27, it shows how effective IRST is in discarding false tracks.

As I see it in future most of DRFM or DIRCM methods would probably get restricted in their use against seekers only and not against BLC or FCR.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Akash is meant to be a cheap SAM system. Seekers are claimed to be around 60% of the cost of a SAM system. So command guidance is the only way out. Putting a seeker on it defeats its primary purpose - that of providing effective Air Defence on the cheap. In any case if you want a seeker on it, you may as well drop the marging steel casing to get the fuller benefits, which is what Akash-2 SAM will do. The existing Akash-1 SAM, is and should be with command guidance only. Besides command guidance need not be treated as a problem because a large emitter has that much more power to burn through all the cluttering and deception. Smaller emitters like airborne Jammers always have to live with the problem of smaller power output. Time domain matching, frequency domain matching still may not be enough to cause a J-to-S masking. Power when required is a great asset. Notice the american jammers getting bigger and bigger.

Even against DRFM you will in future see co-located land based IRSTs. Coherent, co-located dual band radars are already a big headache for most airborne attackers. You can imagine the result yourself. With IRST sensing we have not even begun scratching the surface yet. There is a long journey to be covered and it will change the face of warfare.

Ship based IRSTs are already in extensive use.

US army is already walking along this route for land based IRSTs and the purpose includes sensing for UAVs etc but its obvious there are other applications limited only by line of sight just like a land based BLC/FCR:
defensemedianetwork.com/stories/u-s-army-looks-to-new-ground-based-sensors-to-track-both-uas-and-personnel-targets/

If people have seen the following video "SU 30 MKI - India's Air superiority Fighter Jet" after 3:27, it shows how effective IRST is in discarding false tracks.

As I see it in future most of DRFM or DIRCM methods would probably get restricted in their use against seekers only and not against BLC or FCR.

Akash MK2 was proposed with 40 KM range and larger operating profile. Do not know what happened to the project. It was to be commissioned in 2013.

 

[porky_kicker]

Akash is meant to shoot while moving, Canister cannot allow that ..

does it also hold true for SPYDER SAM ?

according to reports canisterized SPYDER is a Tactical Battlefield Air Defense System which is highly mobile and can move along with Strike corps into an enemy territory and provide protection to moving troop columns and Armored Corps against Attack Choppers ,UAVs and Fighter jets .
and therefor common sense dictates it has the capability to fire on the move.
otherwise its role in a fast moving mobile setup is highly questionable if it has to drop its anchors for stabilization every time it has to fire its missiles.

or am i wrong here

 

[garg_bharat]

but how much the rajendra is immune to DRFM based jammers i dont know.
DRDO uses DRFM technology and therefor should be well versed in its counter as well and must have implemented some to the PESA rajendra ECCM.

The correct method is to test it against both ground based jammers and airborne jammers.
India can either build such jammers or import from Russia/USA.
You cannot say it does not work until you test it.

Barak 8 should also be tested against such jammers.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

does it also hold true for SPYDER SAM ?

according to reports canisterized SPYDER is a Tactical Battlefield Air Defense System which is highly mobile and can move along with Strike corps into an enemy territory and provide protection to moving troop columns and Armored Corps against Attack Choppers ,UAVs and Fighter jets .
and therefor common sense dictates it has the capability to fire on the move.
otherwise its role in a fast moving mobile setup is highly questionable if it has to drop its anchors for stabilization every time it has to fire its missiles.

or am i wrong

I think that Akash is too bulky and that has the reason. When Akash was conceived, India had no technology of Dual pulse motor like what we used in MRSAM. Since we have realizd the technology, We should make a new light weight Akash using MRSAM motor and Akash command guidence technology. It will be very light weight, cost effective and long range. A fusion of old and new technology is necessary.

 

[garg_bharat]

does it also hold true for SPYDER SAM ?

Janes says "engage on the move/fire on halt".
Whatever it means.

 

[porky_kicker]

i strongly believe rajendra uses polarization information for discriminating false and real targets in ECCM role.:biggrin2:
The polarization style of retransmitted radar signal is decided by the transmitting antenna of the DRFM jammer, thus multiple RFTs (repeater false targets) created by the same jammer will share the uniform polarization information. This difference of polarization characteristic between two types of targets can then be used to detect and discriminate RFTs. :biggrin2:

if it turns out rajendra uses this technique for real then god save me.
and i am not guilty :biggrin2: :biggrin2:

actually if rajendra uses the above technique to to defeat DRFM jammers than i can guarantee 70 % of the time rajendra will elude the best of the DRFM jammers used by the pakis , this technology is highly guarded secret among western nations.
also it is a safe bet to assume that monkey versions of US and European tech are handed over to pakis for quite the obivious reasons and therefor no sweat for the akash sams