AEROINDIA 2019

[Enquirer]

MWF will have canards and N LCA Mk 2 will show tails

Very interesting!
Would that be to force a higher angle of attack?

 

[Enquirer]

Damn that's a hell of a range of new desi PGMs / missiles being proposed.

Some of the drones have been developed by private companies

View attachment 32176

It seems new WVR missile is under development

No. That's just ASRAAM that's already purchased (from UK) for Jaguar several years ago (and they intend to make it standard for Su-30MKI & possibly Tejas too)

Not everything on that chart is indigenous development...just shows the weapons package on Jaguar.

The smart anti-tank bomb is 'CBU-105 sensor fused munition' purchased from US more than a decade ago!

 

[Raj Malhotra]

MWF will have canards and N LCA Mk 2 will show tails

Even the main wing of LCA Mk2 seems different

 

[Enquirer]

Here's an interesting contrast (or similarity?)

Tejas Mk2 Project Director's take on Mk2
Status..........Advanced stage of preliminary design
First flight.....2023

AMCA Project Director's take on AMCA
Status...........Advanced stage of preliminary design
First flight......2024


What's happening here??? And why???

No wonder both are confident that only F414 will be used as its engine (Kaveri will not be used)

 

[porky_kicker]

NAVAL LCA MK2

Has stabilizer control surfaces at the rear, not present in the airforce version. LEVCONs retained.

Absence of canards
Absence of wingtip pylons

 

[porky_kicker]

Chutiya Vodafone 4G cannot even open the Google home page for last 6 hrs.

 

[Enquirer]

NAVAL LCA MK2

View attachment 32278

Has stabilizer control surfaces at the rear, not present in the airforce version.

Absence of canards
Absence of wingtip pylons

Also absence of IRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[porky_kicker]

Also absence of IRST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IRST will be there IMO , does not make sense otherwise.

 

[Enquirer]

IRST will be there IMO , does not make sense otherwise.

IMO it should be - especially as its designated for air-defense role.
But the image doesn't show an IRST (and list of changes from Mk1 doesn't mention it either)

 

[AnantS]

NAVAL LCA MK2

View attachment 32278

Has stabilizer control surfaces at the rear, not present in the airforce version. LEVCONs retained.

Absence of canards
Absence of wingtip pylons

there seems no levcons ... dunno Lerx control surface is blended in wing shape .. will it be still called Levcon( I am speaking out of my depth here.. so could be wrong all together) ? , cranked delta gone.. I dunno why go for Delta on Naval Aircraft at all ... (Perhaps to avoid heavy and complex wing folding mechanism).. also since its turning out to be totally new aircraft, why not twin engine design?

 

[Narasimh]

NAVAL LCA MK2

View attachment 32278

Has stabilizer control surfaces at the rear, not present in the airforce version. LEVCONs retained.

Absence of canards
Absence of wingtip pylons

Very unique design.. Looks somewhat similar to the X-32.. But why those stabilators are so small?

 

[abingdonboy]

I will search and give the link later

Have a better one here , Look carefully left side

LCA mk2 with dual missile pylon , 2 missiles mounted on a single weapons pylon

View attachment 32205

beyond impressed. What a a true beast this thing has turned into! 11 hardpoints, 17+ ton MTOW, in built IRST etc etc.

By the time she’s ready DRDO will have plenty of munitions (AAMs, PGMs etc etc) ready for her not to mention UTTAM.

The prospects are salivating. What a turnaround in fortunes this project and the entire industry has seen in just a few years, keep those freaking CONgress crooks out and see what can happen.

News other day that Arjun MK1A has also been accepted by IA, import lobby is surely being killed off- long way still to go (see NUH stupidity).

demo simulator for HAL’s proposed Tejas-based supersonic trainer.

View attachment 32208

View attachment 32210

View attachment 32209

Amazing. Hope to god IAF wakes up and specs MWF with that panoramic display, don’t understand why they have apparently asked for only minor updates to the cockpit for MWF.

Can anyone explain to me the need for / role of the LUH compared to the ALH?

I understand from previous reports that its for High Altitude Ops but isn't ALH already being used for this? I see them delivering supplies in Siachen already. So why LUH which is on paper less capable?

Why are we insisting on having these 2 separate choppers in an already crowded inventory when the ALH can easily become a universal battlefield utility helicopter (like the Blackhawk) which is the accepted global norm?

Is there some spectacular capability in LUH or deficiency in ALH I am missing?

The very very highest outposts have small LZs that can only accommodate a LUH and besides the twin engine 6ton ALH is overkill for resupplying just one post.

The LUH will be a brilliant addition to the armed forces for utility, air taxi and RSH roles.

View attachment 32216

View attachment 32217

Ambulance version.............

Doesn’t look like an ambulance version, that’s an ICG helo, much of them will be outfitted for SAR/MEDEVAC roles though.

Info on naval ALH , no ASW version based on the same ?

View attachment 32220

View attachment 32218

View attachment 32219

View attachment 32221

Am blown away by HAL this year,


SPORT, MWF (okay that’s ADA but still), unmanned wing man, Jag Max, rotary UAV etc etc and the cherry on top is the demonstration of an AUTOMATICALLY folding tail boom.

With the 19 modifications HAL has already made to alh for the ICG/IN recent 32 unit order of M3 and now this there isn’t ZERO- none, zilch, zip- reason to continue with the foreign NUH RFI/tender. It will be CRIMINAL to throw $3-5 billion at a foreign company to licence build 111 foreign designs in India.

N-ALH can be ready before the deal for a foreign NUH could even be ready to be signed if the IN works with HAL. I just don’t understand why they have rejected the ALH at every opportunity for seaborne roles. Hopefully with this folding design that HAL funded themselves IN can give up on their foreign maal dreams.

 

[abingdonboy]

Suryakiran got disbanded after the Hyderabad crash of the Kiran aircraft then we restarted it again with new BAE Hawks this is their first major display event. Even in last Aeroindia 2017 they didn't put much display . Sad again this will go into Limbo . I think its time we replace Hawks with Tejas for the suryakiran . But this accident looks more like Human error than anything to do with Aircraft

Don’t be silly. Sarangs weren’t disbanded after they had their mishaps in their early days.

This is the very pinnacle of
Aviation, margins are so fine and accidents WILL happen- look
Around the world it happens to all of them (Russian knights, British red arrows, USAF thunderbirds etc etc).

SKAT will be back soon.

SKAT was disbanded in the early 2010s because the Kirans were beyond ancient and there was an acute shortage of trainer ac. The Hawks are brand new and the same issues don’t exist in terms of capacity restraints.

 

[porky_kicker]

there seems no levcons ... dunno Lerx control surface is blended in wing shape .. will it be still called Levcon( I am speaking out of my depth here.. so could be wrong all together) ? , cranked delta gone.. I dunno why go for Delta on Naval Aircraft at all ... (Perhaps to avoid heavy and complex wing folding mechanism).. also since its turning out to be totally new aircraft, why not twin engine design?

Sorry my mistake , in hurry I wrongly assumed.

It is LERX not LEVCON

 

[abingdonboy]

Let me bet u (u name the amount)....this project will NEVER take off!
It's a stupid & outdated concept/design! Why replace Mi-17 with another exact replica? Is Tejas same as Mig-21?

Compound rotor is untested?? There are dozens of commercially available helos. All future ones will be that type.

The idea that the IMRH is just an Indian MI17 is beyond laughable. Mi17 doesn’t even have dual
Channel redundancy- ALL of HAL’s modern helos have this.

The IMRH will be superior to
The MI17 in every conceivable way, it will for
One actually be able to operate at the extreme north- even the V5s can’t do that.


Besides there is the fact that the IMRH will be a true multi service effort (Mi17 remains entirely for the IAF). IN has been working from
Early
Design stage with hal for IMRH and the IA has a demand for at least 150 helos in the IMRH class. This is before we even talk about ICG and other Indian users.

So
Leaving aside IAF there’s plenty of demand for IMRH in India. And eventually those 200++ V5s will need replacing. (The oldest is already about a decade old).


Just because the US that spends 100x what India does on defence has a few coaxial helo prototypes IMRH is an outdated idea? What utter rubbish.

IMRH will transform the Indian military

 

[Narasimh]

“The Tejas Mk-2 will be over six squadrons that will replace the Jaguars, Mirages and Mig-29s” - ACM Dhanoa

https://english.manoramaonline.com/...WsGuFB8kbsH8GeAnjDVwZE9JvlqGujTpuUkxlF-BErW-M

So 2032 will be :

LCA mk1/mk1A : 6 squads
LCA mk2/MWF : 10 squads
Rafale - 2 squads +??
su-30 - 15 squads
MMRCA 2.0 - ??
AMCA - ??

 

[AnantS]

Sorry my mistake , in hurry I wrongly assumed.

It is LERX not LEVCON

no worries man.. thanks for keeping us updates. I am just another armchair fellow. By the way any inputs on Kaveri from gtre folks? I know livefist gave update, but it tends to jump the gun.. so I hardly trust that site for objective info

 

[AnantS]

woh subah kabhi toh ayegi...

 

[Enquirer]

The idea that the IMRH is just an Indian MI17 is beyond laughable. Mi17 doesn’t even have dual
Channel redundancy- ALL of HAL’s modern helos have this.

The IMRH will be superior to
The MI17 in every conceivable way, it will for
One actually be able to operate at the extreme north- even the V5s can’t do that.


Besides there is the fact that the IMRH will be a true multi service effort (Mi17 remains entirely for the IAF). IN has been working from
Early
Design stage with hal for IMRH and the IA has a demand for at least 150 helos in the IMRH class. This is before we even talk about ICG and other Indian users.

So
Leaving aside IAF there’s plenty of demand for IMRH in India. And eventually those 200++ V5s will need replacing. (The oldest is already about a decade old).


Just because the US that spends 100x what India does on defence has a few coaxial helo prototypes IMRH is an outdated idea? What utter rubbish.

IMRH will transform the Indian military

When Tejas was being conceived 30 years ago, they didn't look at Mig-21 and try to replicate that, but instead looked at what the most modern aerodynamics/avionics appeared at that time and went onto achieve it - including carbon composite body, delta wing, fly-by-wire, multi-role capability etc etc.
And as things got delayed, they kept upping the specs (at least in the avionics & weaponry department) to make it as modern as possible when finally realized!

If they just looked at Mig-21's metal body & hydraulic controls and tried to build a desi Mig21, so that when the old Mig21's ones retired then they could build a domestically designed Mig21 then it would have been the dumbest thing ever!!!

Also, the pusher prop concept is NOT A LEAP OF TECHNOLOGY even though it'll provide a LEAP IN CAPABILITY (flies at twice the speed of conventional helos). The traditional design of helos was always known to be faulty - that increasing speed by rotating blades faster will lead to a catastrophic drop in lift! The modern designs are finally correcting it!
There's already a shaft that transmits power to the tail rotor....in the simplest sense the tail rotor needs to be reoriented and shaft power increased for pusher prop!

There're new variants of large helos coming out with the old design itself (tail rotor etc), but that's because someone has an existing design and they'll just modify it a little to keep them relevant in the market as long as possible. But if someone's doing a ground-up design, then it's really pigheaded not to leverage the new knowledge for easily attaining speed and efficacy!

15 years from now (yes, that's how long it'll take HAL to build even as per their obsolete concept) when IA/IAF/IN needs to plunk down 10s of billionsof $$$$ for the large transport helos then it'll again come down to the choice of spending limited budget on domestic lumbering helos or fast modern ones!

 

[porky_kicker]

no worries man.. thanks for keeping us updates. I am just another armchair fellow. By the way any inputs on Kaveri from gtre folks? I know livefist gave update, but it tends to jump the gun.. so I hardly trust that site for objective info

A second take without your permission

I am no expert total noob but the wing root leading edge configuration is kind of intriguing.

As you know lerx is fixed while levcon is basically a moving lerx. Lerx is continuous with the fuselage , levcon is not .

Now expand the picture and observe the same in light of the above statements.

And so as far as I can see in the model the fixed portion at the wing root ( hence LERX ) is minimal and is interrupted by a significantly large moving slat ( thus emulating LEVCON ) and then blends with the wing further down.

So in terms of functionality , the LEVCON characteristics ( via leading edge slat ) is being exercised to enable smoother and better control of vortices generated by the minimal leading edge root extensions ( via the small wing root LERX )

What I want to say it ain't your conventional levcon but a wing root leading edge slat which brings in the functionality of a levcon to a certain extent without adding in most of the complexities and disadvantages of the same.

Infact imo it's a pretty good work by ada. They got in the best of the two into play.

My observation for the sake of making an observation.

And I hereby withdraw my consent that it is a lerx , I in full consciousness declare it to be a love child of wild sex between LErx and LEVcon. And hence name the offspring as " LEVLE "
to be pronounced as lovely