Hemu Vikram Aditya
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Didn't the chinese come at aero India Now
Aero India 2017
- Thread starter indiatester
- Start date
Hemu Vikram Aditya
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Instead of buying Gripen we should fund Tejas And AMCA though I am feeling bad for Gripen and SwedenGripen
F-16
Su-30 MKI
And is that ther trainer That Hal Devloped Or Co devloped with bae Near the su30 mki
Prayash
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Those are the bae hawks of suryakiran
Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk
captscooby81
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Its gripen Trainer Aircraft .. I think they given few demo flights to few Defence journo s if i am not wrong ..
Akim
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UkrainianRussian stall
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
pmaitra
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Yup, Ukrainian only in name.
Please inform the audience that Oleg Antonov was Russian and that Antonov Design Bureau started in Novosibirsk and was later moved to Kiev.
Akim
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You also Indian in name only.
____________________________________________________
Prayash
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Yes, but they have no stall. Invited only for improving our relationship.
Anyone visited the OFB stall or anyone planning to go tomorrow or something? It would be nice to get some word on what the 7.62 x51mm rifle is to be based on. I have to say, the show has been a good demo for "Made in India". We can quibble about values etc but the flying displays, the static models and even the info presented has an air of solid reality rather than wishful thinking.
captscooby81
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Superdefender
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17 February 2017
HAL’s Gamble – Will the “Advanced Hawk” break into the Export market?
By: Sanjay Badri-Maharaj
On 5 February 2017, a version of the Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) was unveiled. The aptly-named “Advanced Hawk” is a joint-venture between BAE Systems and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It has been developed using internal funds on an equal risk basis and offers significant enhancement of the capabilities of the basic Hawk AJT. 1 The aircraft, besides being offered as an enhanced capability trainer to larger air arms – India with 123 Hawks in service being a prime candidate – is also being marketed as an affordable light-combat aircraft choice to smaller air forces. While the Hawk AJT was a global success story in the export market, the “Advanced Hawk” enters the market at a time when China has made significant inroads into the light combat aircraft market and would be a direct competitor to the “Advanced Hawk”. 2
In choosing to create a new aircraft that goes beyond an upgrade of the existing Hawk AJT, HAL and BAE have gambled on being able to break into the export market. Indeed, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is reputedly not keen to order the “Advanced Hawk” as a combat aircraft and is at best lukewarm at this stage about its necessity for enhanced training. 3
However, an examination of previous exports of the Hawk as well as an evaluation of possible customers suggests that sales of the “Advanced Hawk” may not be easily forthcoming due to a combination of fiscal and political constraints in addition to cost-effective competition from Chinese platforms.
The potential export market for the “Advanced Hawk” has to be divided into two segments – customers that want a capability enhanced trainer and those that want a cost-effective light combat aircraft-cum-trainer. It is submitted that the demand for the former is going to be less forthcoming than the latter as larger air forces may opt for upgrades of their Hawks’ avionics to meet future training requirements rather than purchase new aircraft. In fact, BAE Systems and HAL have already taken cognizance of this and are offering upgrade options to existing Hawk customers with various modules from the “Advanced Hawk”. 4 However, in respect of the latter requirement for cost-effective combat aircraft, the “Advanced Hawk” may be on firmer ground but will nonetheless face severe challenges in finding markets.
The Hawk AJT has been sold to every continent except South America. While most of these aircraft are used in their training role, the Air Force of Zimbabwe (AFZ) made extensive use of the Hawk T.Mk.60 as a light-strike aircraft during the 1998-2001 Second Congo War. Armed with a combination of 30mm Aden cannon (in a pod mounted on a centreline pylon), unguided rockets and bombs, the AFZ Hawks proved to be one of the most effective strike aircraft of that conflict and proved popular in service – even acting as an interceptor armed with Chinese made PL-7 air-to-air missiles. 5 This combat pedigree should augur well for the “Advanced Hawk” as it offers a considerable increase in those combat capabilities with provision for Brimstone air-to-ground missiles and ASRAAM air-to-air missiles. 6 BAE Systems’ attempts to market dedicated combat versions of the Hawk – in the form of the Hawk 200 series – found only three customers (Malaysia, Indonesia and Oman) for a total of 62 aircraft. However, this does not in any way negate the potential of a new dual-purpose platform – good for training as well as light combat roles.
What is of much greater importance is the fact that the “Advanced Hawk” will be subject to the export control rules of both the United Kingdom and India, with export clearances being needed from the governments of both countries.7 This could adversely affect sales as at least three Hawk operators – Indonesia, Kenya and Zimbabwe – found themselves facing spares embargoes from the United Kingdom. This led to a major fall in serviceability and eventually resulted in the latter two countries withdrawing the type from service. 8 The AFZ in particular viewed the sanctions imposed by the UK as being crippling to its defence preparedness. 9
This experience has had two consequences. The first is a wariness on the part of some African and Asian countries about buying aircraft subject to UK export clearances. The second has been to open the market to Chinese aircraft to countries that would not have usually chosen such an option. Nowhere is this clearer than in the case of Zimbabwe where the much less capable Chinese JL-8/K-8 trainer replaced the T.Mk.60 Hawk in the light-attack role with the AFZ’s No.2 squadron which had earned an enviable reputation during the Second Congo War. 10
Mexico and the Latin American region may also be wary of UK export controls owing to that country’s close political proximity to the United States. It is unlikely that Argentina would ever be allowed to purchase British combat capable aircraft while any attempt on the part of Mexico to make such a purchase could face additional complications should the United States object. Anticipating and working to circumvent these potential political pitfalls in advance could enhance the “Advanced Hawk’s” prospects for sales.
Despite these concerns, there is a large potential market for the “Advanced Hawk”. Countries that need to replace ageing Cessna A-37 attack aircraft (such as Colombia, Uruguay and even Peru) may be tempted by the capability enhancement that the “Advanced Hawk” offers, while countries seeking to supplement or supplant equally geriatric MiG-21s and F-5s may find the cost-effectiveness of operating the “Advanced Hawk” appealing. The need for replacements for these aircraft – particularly the A-37s and F-5s – is acute, as spares are now in relatively short supply while the extreme age of many airframes will be a cause for concern. If some African and Latin American air forces eschew the “prestige” of supersonic aircraft, the “Advanced Hawk” could be an attractive option.
However, even while readily realizing that this potential market exists, the cost of the “Advanced Hawk” may be a significant deterrent factor. It is as yet unknown what the aircraft will cost. But given the level of sophistication that the type undoubtedly has, it is an open question whether countries that might see the “Advanced Hawk” as a viable aircraft choice can afford to purchase it. This factor cannot be understated as many potential customers are now unable to afford replacement aircraft or even to maintain those in service. Uruguay, for example, can only keep its A-37s flying for two or three more years and has already grounded its IA.58 Pucaras. In this respect, China is well placed, with its JL-8 and its more advanced L-15 trainer/light-strike aircraft being attractively priced.
Yet, it must be acknowledged that the “Advanced Hawk” aircraft is potentially HAL’s opportunity to break into the export market. With the support of BAE Systems, the aircraft has the potential to become a “Make in India” success story. The extent of the success will be dependent upon gauging the market honestly and targeting the product appropriately having regard to all the possible constraints. This is an opportunity that should be grasped by HAL to establish itself as a viable exporter of aircraft and it should use its partnership with BAE Systems to ensure that this project succeeds.
Views expressed are of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of the IDSA or of the Government of India.
HAL’s Gamble – Will the “Advanced Hawk” break into the Export market?
By: Sanjay Badri-Maharaj
On 5 February 2017, a version of the Hawk Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) was unveiled. The aptly-named “Advanced Hawk” is a joint-venture between BAE Systems and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). It has been developed using internal funds on an equal risk basis and offers significant enhancement of the capabilities of the basic Hawk AJT. 1 The aircraft, besides being offered as an enhanced capability trainer to larger air arms – India with 123 Hawks in service being a prime candidate – is also being marketed as an affordable light-combat aircraft choice to smaller air forces. While the Hawk AJT was a global success story in the export market, the “Advanced Hawk” enters the market at a time when China has made significant inroads into the light combat aircraft market and would be a direct competitor to the “Advanced Hawk”. 2
In choosing to create a new aircraft that goes beyond an upgrade of the existing Hawk AJT, HAL and BAE have gambled on being able to break into the export market. Indeed, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is reputedly not keen to order the “Advanced Hawk” as a combat aircraft and is at best lukewarm at this stage about its necessity for enhanced training. 3
However, an examination of previous exports of the Hawk as well as an evaluation of possible customers suggests that sales of the “Advanced Hawk” may not be easily forthcoming due to a combination of fiscal and political constraints in addition to cost-effective competition from Chinese platforms.
The potential export market for the “Advanced Hawk” has to be divided into two segments – customers that want a capability enhanced trainer and those that want a cost-effective light combat aircraft-cum-trainer. It is submitted that the demand for the former is going to be less forthcoming than the latter as larger air forces may opt for upgrades of their Hawks’ avionics to meet future training requirements rather than purchase new aircraft. In fact, BAE Systems and HAL have already taken cognizance of this and are offering upgrade options to existing Hawk customers with various modules from the “Advanced Hawk”. 4 However, in respect of the latter requirement for cost-effective combat aircraft, the “Advanced Hawk” may be on firmer ground but will nonetheless face severe challenges in finding markets.
The Hawk AJT has been sold to every continent except South America. While most of these aircraft are used in their training role, the Air Force of Zimbabwe (AFZ) made extensive use of the Hawk T.Mk.60 as a light-strike aircraft during the 1998-2001 Second Congo War. Armed with a combination of 30mm Aden cannon (in a pod mounted on a centreline pylon), unguided rockets and bombs, the AFZ Hawks proved to be one of the most effective strike aircraft of that conflict and proved popular in service – even acting as an interceptor armed with Chinese made PL-7 air-to-air missiles. 5 This combat pedigree should augur well for the “Advanced Hawk” as it offers a considerable increase in those combat capabilities with provision for Brimstone air-to-ground missiles and ASRAAM air-to-air missiles. 6 BAE Systems’ attempts to market dedicated combat versions of the Hawk – in the form of the Hawk 200 series – found only three customers (Malaysia, Indonesia and Oman) for a total of 62 aircraft. However, this does not in any way negate the potential of a new dual-purpose platform – good for training as well as light combat roles.
What is of much greater importance is the fact that the “Advanced Hawk” will be subject to the export control rules of both the United Kingdom and India, with export clearances being needed from the governments of both countries.7 This could adversely affect sales as at least three Hawk operators – Indonesia, Kenya and Zimbabwe – found themselves facing spares embargoes from the United Kingdom. This led to a major fall in serviceability and eventually resulted in the latter two countries withdrawing the type from service. 8 The AFZ in particular viewed the sanctions imposed by the UK as being crippling to its defence preparedness. 9
This experience has had two consequences. The first is a wariness on the part of some African and Asian countries about buying aircraft subject to UK export clearances. The second has been to open the market to Chinese aircraft to countries that would not have usually chosen such an option. Nowhere is this clearer than in the case of Zimbabwe where the much less capable Chinese JL-8/K-8 trainer replaced the T.Mk.60 Hawk in the light-attack role with the AFZ’s No.2 squadron which had earned an enviable reputation during the Second Congo War. 10
Mexico and the Latin American region may also be wary of UK export controls owing to that country’s close political proximity to the United States. It is unlikely that Argentina would ever be allowed to purchase British combat capable aircraft while any attempt on the part of Mexico to make such a purchase could face additional complications should the United States object. Anticipating and working to circumvent these potential political pitfalls in advance could enhance the “Advanced Hawk’s” prospects for sales.
Despite these concerns, there is a large potential market for the “Advanced Hawk”. Countries that need to replace ageing Cessna A-37 attack aircraft (such as Colombia, Uruguay and even Peru) may be tempted by the capability enhancement that the “Advanced Hawk” offers, while countries seeking to supplement or supplant equally geriatric MiG-21s and F-5s may find the cost-effectiveness of operating the “Advanced Hawk” appealing. The need for replacements for these aircraft – particularly the A-37s and F-5s – is acute, as spares are now in relatively short supply while the extreme age of many airframes will be a cause for concern. If some African and Latin American air forces eschew the “prestige” of supersonic aircraft, the “Advanced Hawk” could be an attractive option.
However, even while readily realizing that this potential market exists, the cost of the “Advanced Hawk” may be a significant deterrent factor. It is as yet unknown what the aircraft will cost. But given the level of sophistication that the type undoubtedly has, it is an open question whether countries that might see the “Advanced Hawk” as a viable aircraft choice can afford to purchase it. This factor cannot be understated as many potential customers are now unable to afford replacement aircraft or even to maintain those in service. Uruguay, for example, can only keep its A-37s flying for two or three more years and has already grounded its IA.58 Pucaras. In this respect, China is well placed, with its JL-8 and its more advanced L-15 trainer/light-strike aircraft being attractively priced.
Yet, it must be acknowledged that the “Advanced Hawk” aircraft is potentially HAL’s opportunity to break into the export market. With the support of BAE Systems, the aircraft has the potential to become a “Make in India” success story. The extent of the success will be dependent upon gauging the market honestly and targeting the product appropriately having regard to all the possible constraints. This is an opportunity that should be grasped by HAL to establish itself as a viable exporter of aircraft and it should use its partnership with BAE Systems to ensure that this project succeeds.
Views expressed are of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of the IDSA or of the Government of India.
captscooby81
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If i am not wrong .the organisers of the Aero india show or may be the corporate s from the country of origin who have interest in selling their maal add small entertainment to their sales process :bounce:
MrPresident
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Hello guys.. I have bought a ticket of 1500 which is Visitors Exhibition Area (Only weekend), but when i got an Email its said thanks for registering as a general visitor. As usual no response from the Govt babus who are doing customer service.
One more thing will i be able to see the airshow as well with this ticket? I will be visiting tom.
One more thing will i be able to see the airshow as well with this ticket? I will be visiting tom.
warrior monk
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From Shiv Aroor
EXCLUSIVE: How A Secretive DRDO Lab Is Saving The IAF Su-30MKI
India’s Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) has a rough time dealing with a reputation for waste and delays. To be sure, most criticism it faces is justified. Which is perhaps why it’s always heartening to hear about success. Scientists quietly working behind the scenes on small projects that are truly contributing to the lofty ideal of self-reliance. The story your correspondent reports on today isn’t doing just that — it’s also set to save the Indian Air Force precious capital going into the future.
It all begins with the Russian SAP-518 jammer pod that Moscow supplied with the Su-30MKI. After grappling for years with the pod, the Indian Air Force finally in 2015 realised it simply couldn’t use them for two reasons. One, they were heavy — and when slung onto wingtip hardpoints, they cut into flying envelope like a butcher’s knife.
‘With the Russian pods, the Sukhoi is basically a transport aircraft,’ one of the scientists says.
The second issue is even worse. The IAF realised the SAP-518 pod hadn’t been properly interfacing with the indigenous on-board radar warning receiver (RWR), therefore killing pilots’ chances to exploit both systems fully. While the reasons why the IAF took their time remains unclear (but at one level understandable), DRDO’s Defence Avionics Research Establishment stepped in immediately, offering to help. The result is the pod you see those three scientists standing next to in the photograph above.
DARE’s High Band Jammer (HBJ) pod begins dummy carriage trials in six months on an IAF Su-30MKI, with full integration within the year. By 2019, DARE has committed to seeing the pod become fully operational with the IAF’s Flanker fleet.
Significantly, the HBJ pod will be a fully indigenous one. A DARE scientist explains that the HBJ pod currently
has th
ree major systems: the integrated EW suite, the active array phased transmit-receive unit and the cooling system. While the first two have been rapidly developed in-house, the complex cooling system is in process, with DARE sourcing an Israeli system for the moment. The team says they’ll have a fully functional Indian cooling system on the HBJ pod before full integration trials by the end of the year.
Better still, the HBJ pod, the scientists tell Livefist, will spawn a family of EW sensors and systems for platforms like the LCA Tejas, MiG-29 and any other fighter the IAF chooses to operate.
The Indian Air Force, which has embraced the wares from DARE more than kit from most other DRDO labs is expectedly thrilled. An IAF Su-30MKI pilot at the show confirmed that the HBJ pod was a ‘very promising system’ and that ‘more than anything, it is our own in-house development, so I don’t have to run to the Russians if something doesn’t work’.
A DARE scientist associated with the project tells a familiar story: Russia’s unwillingness to share codes (or its insistence on an additional commercial understanding) that could have helped manage the interfacing issues between the SAP-518 pod and Indian RWR better and faster.
Incidentally, the indigenous DARE RWR on the IAF’s Su-30MKIs will also be
replaced soon. The lab is in final testing of an all digital RWR (the existing system is analog) christened ‘Dhruti’ that will begin ground testing in May this year, followed by a phased installation across the fleet.
DARE is one of the DRDO’s most low-profile laboratories and also one of its most successful. Its systems populate virtually every combat aircraft currently in service, including missile approach warning systems, mission computers and avionics of every kind.
A final little flourish from the unassuming DARE stand at Aero India is the SIVA pod, a development from the nineties that didn’t quite work out and was quietly abandoned. Recently, scientists dusted out from the corner of a DARE warehouse when a team of scientists suddenly realised they could help the people at BrahMos save a penny on testing the airborne seeker on the BrahMos-A.
The @DRDO_India SIVA targeting pod for the Su-30MKI. #AeroIndia2017 pic.twitter.com/aVgZVDFzJy
— Livefist (@livefist) February 15, 2017
With the new DRDL-led imaging and monopulse RF seeker (IMR, for a future variant of the BrahMos) fitted into the Siva pod in a matter of days (the DRDL had tendered out for the integration process), the pod was quickly slung onto a Su-30MKI and sent up for the required airborne tests. It was an immediate success, with BrahMos Corp. sending a special word of thanks to the DARE team. Without that flash of brilliance from DARE, BrahMos would have had to hot-step it to Russia or elsewhere to get a testbed. And the Siva pod would have forever remained a failed relic from DARE’s early days. Instead it is now a valuable, cheap test-bed for high-performance systems.
‘Now we have a very capable in-house testbed capable of testing a variety of electronics and systems in the airborne regime. This is the beginning of a testbed capability that is normally very expensive to hire. It will be finetuned and evolved before being offered as a full-fledged service, perhaps even to foreign customers,’ says a DRDO officer.
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/how-a-secretive-drdo-lab-is-saving-the-iaf-su-30mki.html
EXCLUSIVE: How A Secretive DRDO Lab Is Saving The IAF Su-30MKI
India’s Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) has a rough time dealing with a reputation for waste and delays. To be sure, most criticism it faces is justified. Which is perhaps why it’s always heartening to hear about success. Scientists quietly working behind the scenes on small projects that are truly contributing to the lofty ideal of self-reliance. The story your correspondent reports on today isn’t doing just that — it’s also set to save the Indian Air Force precious capital going into the future.
It all begins with the Russian SAP-518 jammer pod that Moscow supplied with the Su-30MKI. After grappling for years with the pod, the Indian Air Force finally in 2015 realised it simply couldn’t use them for two reasons. One, they were heavy — and when slung onto wingtip hardpoints, they cut into flying envelope like a butcher’s knife.
‘With the Russian pods, the Sukhoi is basically a transport aircraft,’ one of the scientists says.
The second issue is even worse. The IAF realised the SAP-518 pod hadn’t been properly interfacing with the indigenous on-board radar warning receiver (RWR), therefore killing pilots’ chances to exploit both systems fully. While the reasons why the IAF took their time remains unclear (but at one level understandable), DRDO’s Defence Avionics Research Establishment stepped in immediately, offering to help. The result is the pod you see those three scientists standing next to in the photograph above.
DARE’s High Band Jammer (HBJ) pod begins dummy carriage trials in six months on an IAF Su-30MKI, with full integration within the year. By 2019, DARE has committed to seeing the pod become fully operational with the IAF’s Flanker fleet.
Significantly, the HBJ pod will be a fully indigenous one. A DARE scientist explains that the HBJ pod currently
has th
Better still, the HBJ pod, the scientists tell Livefist, will spawn a family of EW sensors and systems for platforms like the LCA Tejas, MiG-29 and any other fighter the IAF chooses to operate.
The Indian Air Force, which has embraced the wares from DARE more than kit from most other DRDO labs is expectedly thrilled. An IAF Su-30MKI pilot at the show confirmed that the HBJ pod was a ‘very promising system’ and that ‘more than anything, it is our own in-house development, so I don’t have to run to the Russians if something doesn’t work’.
A DARE scientist associated with the project tells a familiar story: Russia’s unwillingness to share codes (or its insistence on an additional commercial understanding) that could have helped manage the interfacing issues between the SAP-518 pod and Indian RWR better and faster.
Incidentally, the indigenous DARE RWR on the IAF’s Su-30MKIs will also be
DARE is one of the DRDO’s most low-profile laboratories and also one of its most successful. Its systems populate virtually every combat aircraft currently in service, including missile approach warning systems, mission computers and avionics of every kind.
A final little flourish from the unassuming DARE stand at Aero India is the SIVA pod, a development from the nineties that didn’t quite work out and was quietly abandoned. Recently, scientists dusted out from the corner of a DARE warehouse when a team of scientists suddenly realised they could help the people at BrahMos save a penny on testing the airborne seeker on the BrahMos-A.
The @DRDO_India SIVA targeting pod for the Su-30MKI. #AeroIndia2017 pic.twitter.com/aVgZVDFzJy
— Livefist (@livefist) February 15, 2017
With the new DRDL-led imaging and monopulse RF seeker (IMR, for a future variant of the BrahMos) fitted into the Siva pod in a matter of days (the DRDL had tendered out for the integration process), the pod was quickly slung onto a Su-30MKI and sent up for the required airborne tests. It was an immediate success, with BrahMos Corp. sending a special word of thanks to the DARE team. Without that flash of brilliance from DARE, BrahMos would have had to hot-step it to Russia or elsewhere to get a testbed. And the Siva pod would have forever remained a failed relic from DARE’s early days. Instead it is now a valuable, cheap test-bed for high-performance systems.
‘Now we have a very capable in-house testbed capable of testing a variety of electronics and systems in the airborne regime. This is the beginning of a testbed capability that is normally very expensive to hire. It will be finetuned and evolved before being offered as a full-fledged service, perhaps even to foreign customers,’ says a DRDO officer.
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/how-a-secretive-drdo-lab-is-saving-the-iaf-su-30mki.html
