Aero India 2017

[kr9]

the Cobra is said to be only good enough for airshows, and not for actual combat. is the same true for the other manoeuvres as well? if not, any info/juice on whether the IAF practices them or not in that case, even if they take a toll on the airframe?

There was an old video on Youtube about an air exercise that happened after the end of the cold war.
For anyone interested in searching for the video:--I think it was part of the "Wings of the Red Star" series or one of the related videos that showed up.

The once East German MiG-29s went against the NATO fighters in a simulated fight. The NATO pilots say that the cobra is useful in a circling dogfight were the pilots have only guns / CCMs. By executing this manoeuvre, the MiGs could momentarily achieve upto +108 degree AoA to bring the cross-hair in alignment with the enemy & get off a burst; or get a lock for their heat-seekers.

The disadvantage of the move is that it greatly reduced the speed; so if the shot does not kill or at least make the enemy evade, then you would be a sitting duck till you can get your speed up again.

With HMDs, we don't need this for CCMs but the manoeuvre would still be effective when using guns.

Another use would be as @AnantS has given.

PS: IAF Su-30s used to do the manoeuvre during 26 January, but they haven't done it for the pas 2-3 years.
I also remember one time when the MKI did a tail slide.

 

[delta]

There was an old video on Youtube about an air exercise that happened after the end of the cold war.
For anyone interested in searching for the video:--I think it was part of the "Wings of the Red Star" series or one of the related videos that showed up.

good series that one

PS: IAF Su-30s used to do the manoeuvre during 26 January, but they haven't done it for the pas 2-3 years.
I also remember one time when the MKI did a tail slide.

the MKI has never performed the cobra during 26 Jan. it's a solemn parade, not an airshow. i did see it performing the tail slide during aero india 2015, but that's about the only manoeuvre it performs that it's capable of. the explanation given by @AnantS may explain why that is so. however, there are other tricks in the book like the kulbit etc. are they useful for any engagements? and if so, are they practiced by the IAF despite the potential stress on the airframe?

 

[AnantS]

good series that one



the MKI has never performed the cobra during 26 Jan. it's a solemn parade, not an airshow. i did see it performing the tail slide during aero india 2015, but that's about the only manoeuvre it performs that it's capable of. the explanation given by @AnantS may explain why that is so. however, there are other tricks in the book like the kulbit etc. are they useful for any engagements? and if so, are they practiced by the IAF despite the potential stress on the airframe?

I saw them performing some nice maneuvers way back in 2006-2007 period in pune, used to get a good view as my accomodation was near to base

 

[Superdefender]

Credit: LiveFist
Defense
.........................................

 

[Mikesingh]

the Cobra is said to be only good enough for airshows, and not for actual combat. is the same true for the other manoeuvres as well? if not, any info/juice on whether the IAF practices them or not in that case, even if they take a toll on the airframe?

100% spot on! The Cobra has little or no value in today's BVR environment. Dogfights (where the Cobra manoeuvre could be somewhat effective), is passe!

With the latest IR off boresight missiles now in service, no amount of maneuvering and G pulling will be able to evade these missiles. The Russians on the other hand are of the opinion that despite the emphasis now on network centric BVR engagements, the days of the 'dogfight' are not yet over and that high G maneuvers such as the Cobra still have an important role to play. But we don't believe that to be true.

As far as I understand it, the SUs have their alpha limiters set to prevent reaching that attitude - the display aircraft have them turned off to allow the move to be performed. These display aircraft take off with near empty fuel tanks and no missiles (They usually carry dummy missiles) to save weight for the Cobra manoeuvre. And these are performed by top-gun Russian instructors who have thousands of hours of flying experience.

Thus, this manoeuvre is more for demo purposes than combat.

By the way, you can do it yourself at home on the Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX or Lockheed Martin's Prepar 3D. I've tried and it's not as easy as it looks even on a simulator! Here's a video using DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) which is free to download but for which you would need OS 64-bit Windows 7/8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+; RAM: 16GB; Hard disk space: 30 GB; Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / ATI R9 290 3GB RAM; DirectX11 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.


Have fun!

 

[Prayash]

100% spot on! The Cobra has little or no value in today's BVR environment. Dogfights (where the Cobra manoeuvre could be somewhat effective), is passe!

With the latest IR off boresight missiles now in service, no amount of maneuvering and G pulling will be able to evade these missiles. The Russians on the other hand are of the opinion that despite the emphasis now on network centric BVR engagements, the days of the 'dogfight' are not yet over and that high G maneuvers such as the Cobra still have an important role to play. But we don't believe that to be true.

As far as I understand it, the SUs have their alpha limiters set to prevent reaching that attitude - the display aircraft have them turned off to allow the move to be performed. These display aircraft take off with near empty fuel tanks and no missiles (They usually carry dummy missiles) to save weight for the Cobra manoeuvre. And these are performed by top-gun Russian instructors who have thousands of hours of flying experience.

Thus, this manoeuvre is more for demo purposes than combat.

By the way, you can do it yourself at home on the Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX or Lockheed Martin's Prepar 3D. I've tried and it's not as easy as it looks even on a simulator! Here's a video using DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) which is free to download but for which you would need OS 64-bit Windows 7/8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+; RAM: 16GB; Hard disk space: 30 GB; Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / ATI R9 290 3GB RAM; DirectX11 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.


Have fun!

So whats your pc specs, does it works fine in your pc

 

[tejas warrior]

Apart from the LCA we hope to manufacture at least 1000 helicopters in the next 10 years, says HAL's T Suvarna Raju.

 

[Mikesingh]

So whats your pc specs, does it works fine in your pc

Works like a charm! But I use the MS FSX Flight Simulator instead with all the sliders turned up as it has mind blowing 3rd party graphics too from Google Earth and sat mapping. No fictional scenery here. It's the real thing!

Here are a couple of screenshots of the EF...

Over Hawaii...

Gallen

But remember this complete package costs a bomb!!

P.S. The Tejas ain't available at present though the SUs are there.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

India Next Indigenous Helicopters Show at AERO INDIA Show 2017
Published on Feb 16, 2017

 

[Kunal Biswas]

================

HAL LUH at Aero India 2017 ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

=============

At Aero India 2017 ..

 

[Adioz]

100% spot on! The Cobra has little or no value in today's BVR environment. Dogfights (where the Cobra manoeuvre could be somewhat effective), is passe!

With the latest IR off boresight missiles now in service, no amount of maneuvering and G pulling will be able to evade these missiles. The Russians on the other hand are of the opinion that despite the emphasis now on network centric BVR engagements, the days of the 'dogfight' are not yet over and that high G maneuvers such as the Cobra still have an important role to play. But we don't believe that to be true.

As far as I understand it, the SUs have their alpha limiters set to prevent reaching that attitude - the display aircraft have them turned off to allow the move to be performed. These display aircraft take off with near empty fuel tanks and no missiles (They usually carry dummy missiles) to save weight for the Cobra manoeuvre. And these are performed by top-gun Russian instructors who have thousands of hours of flying experience.

Thus, this manoeuvre is more for demo purposes than combat.

By the way, you can do it yourself at home on the Microsoft Flight Simulator FSX or Lockheed Martin's Prepar 3D. I've tried and it's not as easy as it looks even on a simulator! Here's a video using DCS (Digital Combat Simulator) which is free to download but for which you would need OS 64-bit Windows 7/8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+; RAM: 16GB; Hard disk space: 30 GB; Video: NVIDIA GeForce GTX780 / ATI R9 290 3GB RAM; DirectX11 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.


Have fun!

I remember reading that Purgachev's Cobra is useless, but a modified form of this maneuver called the Purgachev's Cobra Turn is useful in combat.

About the Digital Combat Simulator though,
The only thing I do not have is the 30 GB free hard disk space and I only have 8GB RAM. Maybe I will uninstall Call of Duty and Creo elements. But will it not run on 8 GB RAM?
Does it have Dhrv, Osprey and Mig-29K? What about bigger aircraft like C 17, C 5, or Antonov Myra ?

 

[ezsasa]

On the point of SU-30 doing cobra, my question would be:
have IAF pilots mastered the full flight envelope of SU30?

If yes, who can certify that?

 

[alphacentury]

oddly enough, ive never seen the MKI perform the Cobra at any airshow. or for that matter the other manoeuvres the Su 30 is famous for either. any reasons for that?

MKI doesnt have to. You dont display your tactics and maneuver in an general air show. But, Russia on the other hand has to do some stunts to show off/sell those aircrafts. Thats not true for our case. We dont have to prove/show the capability of our pilots/plane in public as we dont own or sell them. Its rather opposite. We would like to give away as little as possible.

But, as we develop our own planes and try to sell them, then we will see more 'stunts' in air shows.

Anyway, This is from this year's show. Its not cobra, but you can say a rare/out of norm display, as far as IAF is concerned. Also, I doubt if this was permitted at all. Skip to 2:07

Also, remember, India(Barring defence forums) doesnt really like to make any news or hog limelight as far as its armed capabilities are concerned. They try to keep it as lowkey as possible. May sound absurd, but holds true for airshows too.

 

[Mikesingh]

I remember reading that Purgachev's Cobra is useless, but a modified form of this maneuver called the Purgachev's Cobra Turn is useful in combat.

About the Digital Combat Simulator though,
The only thing I do not have is the 30 GB free hard disk space and I only have 8GB RAM. Maybe I will uninstall Call of Duty and Creo elements. But will it not run on 8 GB RAM?
Does it have Dhrv, Osprey and Mig-29K? What about bigger aircraft like C 17, C 5, or Antonov Myra ?

Check out the available aircraft here....

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/world/
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/products/planes/

The min requirements are:

• OS:64-bit: Windows Vista, 7 or 8
• Processor:Core 2 Duo 2.0 GHz
• Memory:6 GB RAM
• Graphics:512 MB RAM card
• DirectX:9.0c
• Hard Drive:10 GB HD space

I suggest MS FSX instead which requires lesser specs and has much more 3rd party planes and terrain.

 

[Prayash]

Aeroindia 2017 video.....

 

[Prayash]

Hasta la vista Aeroindia2017

 

[Mikesingh]

I think the Tejas needs a paint job, pronto!

 

[captscooby81]

Is it the paint which worn off ?? or is it some type of Digital Camouflage painting to reduce Radar signals ??

I think the Tejas needs a paint job, pronto!

 

[indiatester]

Is it the paint which worn off ?? or is it some type of Digital Camouflage painting to reduce Radar signals ??

That is speed tape. Mostly seen when they are testing something on the plane.