ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Dhairya Yadav]

F414 is same dimensions as F404. It is a drop in replacement for F404.

I dont think the engine change is a major problem.

Any source for your statement?

 

[Zebra]

Originally Posted by sgarg
F414 is same dimensions as F404. It is a drop in replacement for F404.
I dont think the engine change is a major problem.

Any source for your statement?

General Electric F404 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
General Electric F414 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At least length {154 in (3,912 mm)} and diameter {35 in (889 mm)} are same for both of them.

 

[sgarg]

The Mark II features:

1. AESA - DRDO is reporting good progress in this item.
2. Retractable refueling probe - going into Mark I now
3. F414 engine - to be done
4. Increase in length - to be done
5. Integration with BVR missiles, laser guided bombs etc. - progressing with Mark I

 

[sgarg]

People forget that Tejas Mark I is constantly improving and is being validated on a number of test points. Whatever works for Mark I (for example integration with weapons) will automatically work with Mark II.

Mark II is not a new or radically different plane.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

People forget that Tejas Mark I is constantly improving and is being validated on a number of test points. Whatever works for Mark I (for example integration with weapons) will automatically work with Mark II.

Mark II is not a new or radically different plane.

I assume you are trying to say that Mk2 will be finished earlier than expected.
Systems, hardware ,software- yes it would adopt it directly from Mk1. But it is a structurally new aircraft. Its not a stretch and fly .
As Im more Civil aviation enthusiast than military, Look at Boeing's , Airbus's projects to enlarge and stretch existing aircraft designs such as B777, A340.
Minimum it takes 5 years to do that. Look at B777-300 , It was launched in 1998 , but it took them 6 years to develop B777-300ER, with no structural changes and only additional fuel tanks.
It takes time do this kind of stuff.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Read the first page of this thread at first ..

============

Minor Modifications to Tejas Airframe

ADA and HAL will need to make a few small slight to the Tejas airframe to make the new engine fit.

"It meets all the performance requirements of Tejas, like the rate of turn and thrust in all modes," a source told AW&ST. "The first lot of the engines will come by 2014-15 and the rest would be manufactured in India under transfer of technology [agreements]. The first lot of engines would undergo some simple tests and minute modifications before they are fitted to Tejas Mk-II ... The GE F414 would also power the LCA naval variant.

In November 2010, AW&ST reported that an ADA team has initiated studies on the Mk.2's proposed operational envelope, fluid dynamics studies of new components and analysis of new engine components. The team is also producing fresh numerical master geometry and inboard drawings, a new digital mock-up of the entire Mk.2, and a wind tunnel model in collaboration with the National Aerospace Laboratory.

Systems, hardware ,software- yes it would adopt it directly from Mk1. But it is a structurally new aircraft. Its not a stretch and fly .

 

[sgarg]

I assume you are trying to say that Mk2 will be finished earlier than expected.
Systems, hardware ,software- yes it would adopt it directly from Mk1. But it is a structurally new aircraft. Its not a stretch and fly .
As Im more Civil aviation enthusiast than military, Look at Boeing's , Airbus's projects to enlarge and stretch existing aircraft designs such as B777, A340.
Minimum it takes 5 years to do that. Look at B777-300 , It was launched in 1998 , but it took them 6 years to develop B777-300ER, with no structural changes and only additional fuel tanks.
It takes time do this kind of stuff.

I think it is more about sensors and weapons in case of Tejas than aerodynamics or control laws. They can simulate the control laws on the computer.

If they prove AESA radar and weapons integration on Mark I, then Mark II is a much smaller challenge.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

not to forget that this time IAF has told what plane it want accurately..... At times of tejas mk1 iaf was confused itself and told few more addition in 2003, result: the airframe needed to restructured and the program went in design phase taking almost 4-5 years for next flight. This won't happen with tejas mk2.

 

[SajeevJino]

From the Chief of Air Staff

IS: Could you give a detailed update on the indigenous LCA(Tejas) programme? When would the aircraft be in a position to
achieve full-fledged FOC (Final Operational Clearance)? How will
the issue of the first 40 LCAs fitted with the underpowered GE 404
IN engines be sorted out in the long run? Will these be retro
modified to Mk II standards or the IAF would remain saddled with
Mk Is through their entire service life? Could you also give details
of the LCA Mk II aircraft are envisaged for procurement by the
IAF?

CAS: The LCA achieved IOC in December 2013 and this paved the
way for induction of the LCA in IOC configuration in IAF. HAL is
likely to deliver the first LCA in 2014 and IAF will be in a position
to form the first LCA squadron only after receipt of at least four
LCA from HAL, which is likely by the third quarter of 2015. The
FOC of LCA is scheduled in December 2014. The first 40 LCA
would fly with GE 404 IN engine. The LCA Mk II would be equipped
with GE 414 INS6 engine with improved performance. Preliminary
Design Review of LCA Mk II was conducted. Four Squadrons of
LCA Mk II are envisaged for procurement.

..:: India Strategic ::. IAF: Exclusive Interview: Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha

 

[ersakthivel]

From the Chief of Air Staff



..:: India Strategic ::. IAF: Exclusive Interview: Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha

Despite the repeated attempts by the reporter to get IAF chief to attest his bogey that tejas mk1 is under powered IAF chief has refused to oblige.
Attempts of the reporter to float the kite that," LCA with GE-404 is under powered ,says IAF chief", couldn't succeed.

If Tejas with GE-404 is under powered, then every other fighter in IAF barring Mig-29 is chronically under powered and unfit for service.

NOT A SINGLE FIGHTER IN PLAF HAS A HIGHER TWR (in half fuel weight and with just two wing tip WVR missiles, the config under which they enter close combat.) than Tejas mk1.

Guys parading as defence jour-analists don't even know this basic fact!!!

 

[pankaj nema]

Tejas Mk 2 AESA derived from ELTA 2052

Tejas MK-2 Aesa Radar derived from Israeli EL/M-2052 | idrw.org

 

[Zebra]

Tejas Mk 2 AESA derived from ELTA 2052

Tejas MK-2 Aesa Radar derived from Israeli EL/M-2052 | idrw.org

:cool2:



to imported lobby supporters......

:hippo:

 

[Zebra]

^^

ISRAEL & IN FOCUS: AESA radar emerges from US export shadow - 1/20/2014 - Flight Global

But something has happened in the past year to break a perceived US block on the export of Israel's AESA technology. Either the USA has loosened its policy, or Israel has found applications for AESA radar that do not threaten the strategic or industrial interests of its military benefactor.

IAI executives have confirmed to Flightglobal that the X-band EL/M-2052 AESA radar for fighters is not only for sale, but has been sold to two export customers.

"It's in production for two foreign customers," says Igo Licht, director of sales and marketing for Elta.

Licht declines to identify the customers or fighter types involved in the sales contracts. IAI has described the EL/M-2052 as generally suitable for single-engined aircraft such as the Lockheed Martin F-16, Northrop F-5, Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21, IAI Kfir Block 60 and the Hindustan Aeronautics Tejas light combat aircraft.

 

[Immanuel]

^^^Nice, once active LCA MK-2 will have one of the best AESAs, tracking 64 targets thats pretty cool

 

[Zebra]

^^
Out of four, last main points of Tejas got cleared by now.

Indeed, it is getting one of the best radar.

On top of that, it will be great if Tejas gets latest GE 414 engine also.

The US refused it before, but new govt can try it again. Nothing wrong in trying it again. IMO.

It will improve aircraft's range and/or weapon carrying capacity (more weapon / heavy weapon).

The latest GE 414 engine will be the most cost effective option for Tejas.

Lighter in weight, more thrust, drink less fuel, works more flying hours.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

^^

ISRAEL & IN FOCUS: AESA radar emerges from US export shadow - 1/20/2014 - Flight Global

i think the full article also mentions the T/r Module count on the 2 export customers

those mentioned T/R module count if taken as correct then you can rule out LCA

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indigenous AESA radars for Tejas Mark-2 : Saraswat

On asking whether the indigenously developed AESA radar could also be integrated with the indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas , Saraswat said, " The work is already on and the Tejas Mark-2 will have nothing but the AESA radar. In fact recently when I was in our lab LRDE, they showed me 1/8 size of RA which is already operational in the same frequency band delivering certain amount of power with the TR (Transmitter & Receiver) modules. The work on the development of AESA for LCA is on."

The DRDO developed AESA radar will be of same size and volume of the present radar integrated on Tejas Mark-1. Once the work starts for the Mark-2 of Tejas aircraft, the old radar will be simply replaced by the indigenous AESA radar.

"Now we can configure small as well as large AESA radar. The advantage of AESA is that as you increase the numbers of TR modules, the more power you get," said Dr, Saraswat.

It is claimed that the Indian AESA radar can be compared with the best in the world in terms of resolution, performance and electronic warfare capability. The basic element of AESA radar which are the TR modules are being produced today by Bharat Electronics and other private industries in India.

From : Indian Defence News - Indigenous AESA radars for Tejas Mark-2 : Saraswat

 

[Kunal Biswas]

An Israeli Radar in India's Jet Fighter?

Will the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) being developed in India be equipped with an advanced radar system developed in Israel? The chances for that have increased in the recent days. Sources in India have informed that the Indian Air Force which is acquiring the LCA is interested in having it equipped with an AESA radar. Such a radar has been developed and is being produced by Elta, a subsidiary of Israel Aerospace Industries, which is considered among the most advanced of its kind throughout the world.

The 2nd prototype is expected to take flight only next year. The Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) at India's Ministry of Defense is developing an electronic scanning radar, but the Indian sources said that the developers will need foreign assistance. The aircraft is equipped with a US engine after the engine developed for it in India did not provide the necessary thrust. At this stage, India ordered 200 LCA MK2 aircraft - the advanced version of the aircraft - from the Indian defense industry.

AESA radars are considered the most advanced radars for jet fighters, and they improve the aircraft's ability to detect aerial targets. In the past, the Ministry of Defense has prevented Elta from offering the new radar for export, but this was changed since several manufacturers, including US manufacturers, are offering them around the world.

According to the sources, the close military procurement relations between Israel and India allow for a good possibility of cooperation in developing the Indian radar that will be installed on the LCA.

From : An Israeli Radar in India's Jet Fighter?

 

[sgarg]

Sometimes information is hard to come but I have a feeling that ELTA 2052 is the radar to be put on FOC fighters.

Pure Indian effort is also ON in this field.

The Tejas has acquired capabilities not foreseen by IAF itself. This is why I have said that Tejas has to put in the hands of the user. Once user develops tactics on this plane, they will feel much more comfortable.

IAF has developed a vested interest in Rafale which is unhealthy. Efforts continue to push Rafale. The Rafale does not change anything for India as it already has Su-30, a plane with long range. Extra numbers of Su-30 or Super-30 can be manufactured as its factory is already in place and in production.

 

[Zebra]

i think the full article also mentions the T/r Module count on the 2 export customers

those mentioned T/R module count if taken as correct then you can rule out LCA

My friend please check post #671. It says.....

Tejas Mk 2 AESA derived from ELTA 2052

and post #677.....

"Now we can configure small as well as large AESA radar. The advantage of AESA is that as you increase the numbers of TR modules, the more power you get," said Dr, Saraswat.

The basic element of AESA radar which are the TR modules are being produced today by Bharat Electronics and other private industries in India.

That Radar won't be EL/M 2052, as it is.

But it will be something based on it.