ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[Yumdoot]

^^^^ People you are only looking at dry thrust & wet thrust of the engine that is the reason you are looking at F110 instead of F414. The correct metric you should be looking at for picking an engine should be thrust to weight ratio.

for F110 it is ~7.25-8 where as for F414 it is ~9-10.

Adding a lower TTW engine(even though it final wet thrust is way higher) will not make a plane super cruise because the Engine + Fuselage + support structures for housing & holding the same engine will increase ending up with high empty weight fighter which will not even do transonic cruise forget about super cruise

But you realize despite this older engine F-16XL turned out a much more dangerous product then the main line items, right?

@Yumdoot , Sir, thank you for the elaborate reply.

One thing I needed to clarify, is the twin engine capability , sought out by IAF had something to do with multi role capability ? Like flight envelope of "twin engine aircraft" be able to support more role than single engine variant .

Also, if possible , please guide me to an article , where I can read about developmental history of F16's , so that different roles of such aircraft can be studied.

Thank you .


P.S : Is "multi role" capability possible ?

Yes, multi-role is, as of today linked to twin-engined.

But only as of today and not because there is an natural science operating against having single-engined-multi-roles. In fact Gripen and LCA and F-16 and F-16XL all beat that presumption convincingly. My personal favourite is the F-16XL and I would love to see an LCA Mk-!? which is designed to work like that.

Unfortunately as I said, the Chinese can do that easily to us while our vaunted IAF leadership will sure as hell, instead sell us lemons.

I dread the day the J-17 mutates into one such product in its later version while we fly planes 5 times as costly with a piss poor many-on-many survivability. If this many-on-many survivability was not important then why the hell did they pit 3 Mig-21 bison against 1 F-15C in their exercises. What happened to those lessons? Batti bana ke rakh liya us learning ka kya?

IAF leadership is OTOH furthering the cowboy culture by salivating for twin-engined type individualist survivability and OTOtherH they are sinking money into more and more networking which works better with team-work.

I don't know man. Feel like violated/molested

 

[Yumdoot]

Also, if possible , please guide me to an article , where I can read about developmental history of F16's , so that different roles of such aircraft can be studied.

These two links will give you a good insight into the mind of the F-16 designers. These guys were known as fighter mafia and I think only one of them remained till the end with F-16XL. I think some of them did voice their main grouse that F-16 was not given the main job it was built for and when finally redesigned for the job F-16s were being used for, it was rejected.

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/elegance_in_flight.pdf
http://www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=18581

Other than the F-16XL, the F-16 MATV/VISTA, was one more idea good to read about. There was another experiment about diverterless supersonic inlets which you may want to read about. The other versions are just run of the mill stuff.

 

[tharun]

Y dont HAL add conformal fuel tanks to tejas to increase range.
F-16 conformal fuel tanks carries 50% fuel of it's main tanks.

 

[tharun]

Tejas and jf-17 carries same amount of fuel around 2400kg
Then y do tejas have less combat radius..

 

[guru-dutt]

Tejas and jf-17 carries same amount of fuel around 2400kg
Then y do tejas have less combat radius..

couple of more questions

1. since LCA has such high degree of composites how come its still so heavy ?

2. what is actual wieght and range of LCA ?

 

[ersakthivel]

Ha, Ha, Ha,,,,,,,:bounce:

The TOI let pandit had a few bottles of rums with his editor last night and ordered the GOI to cancell tejas mk2, the most powerful version of tejas with all the goodies!!!

So the import lobby is still hard at work trying to cancell the most useful part of tejas mk2 and its DDM wing is in advance deployment mode here.

From now on they will chant , since we buy 120 tejas mk1 , we should cancel tejas mk2 for IAF and go for their paymaster's Rafale, a 4.5th gen plane at 5th gen price!!!

So from now on the standard operating procedure for DDM folks is , since we have ordered 120 IAF tejas mk1 , we dont need the most potent IAF tejas mk2,restrict it for the navy and go for 100 plus rafale. We can see unending newspaper articles in future on these lines.

The French are not going to relent on price , TOT fronts, thats the reason MMRCA folded up, not because of GOI's inability to pay the bill. If at all GOI accepted a diluted 120 rafale deal which falls short of original RFP rules regarding price, TOT and guarantee, it would have thrown itself open to massive corruption charges and hauled over the coals by CAG.

Thats why the new DM while going for scrapping MMRCA has clearly said the Super sukhoi upgrades for SU-30 MKI is the plan B for MMRCA and tejas will make up the number shortfalls, a prudent practical decision by a IIT educated minister.

The import lobby journos havent recovered from that blow till date. All along tejas mk1 was dismissed as toy plane, now with this no nonsense govt finally knocking some sense into IAF top brass's wooden heads we are seeing 120 plus orders for tejas mk1 or mk1A itself.

If at all IAF was serious about depleting squadron strength they could have given this order of 120 tejas mk1s on IOC-2 itself, and could have made a promise of buying about 100 plus tejas mk2 afterwards,

All this BVR/IFR /Gun trials/FOC needed before further orders is a hogwash. All fighters developed in this world have completed them in their later development stage, IAF bought 40 su-30 in a config
far from su-30 MKI and when it bought mirage-2000 first it had no missiles at all. Later everything came on board, we are paying russians even before seeing FGFA in reality.

But when it came to Tejas a different tune was sung by IAF whicch delayed developments till date.

This could have kindled private sector interest in the past 18 months and with the proactive make in india policy of this new govt we could have seen moves towards setting up an new production line for tejas , with all the vendors of tejas program nurtured till now by HAL and ADA finishing setting up of enlarged capacities for tejas mk1.

Because of the we need only rafale no more super sukhoi-30s no three legged cheetah tejas mk1 stand of IAF we have wasted two years in not setting up any extra production facility of tejas , which could have resulted in more number of tejas produced every yer from 2016 onwards.

Even now with naval tejas mk2 orders if GOI clearly states that the production of all tejas variants will be nothing less than 400 , moves towards a second pvt sector production can begin,

It is only with the aim of stalling such initiatives the "Tejas mk2 is scrapped" cat is now being let out of the bag by import lobby,

 

[bose]

@ersakthivel we just need 10 years of current government with Parikar as DM... I am very sure this import lobbyist will be killed forever... We badly need to recover from the lost decade of UPA ...

 

[Chirag]

@ersakthivel we just need 10 years of current government with Parikar as DM... I am very sure this import lobbyist will be killed forever... We badly need to recover from the lost decade of UPA ...

I pray this illusion comes to reality

 

[salute]

couple of more questions

1. since LCA has such high degree of composites how come its still so heavy ?

2. what is actual wieght and range of LCA ?

the Mk 1 weighs 6500 kg empty,

200-300 kg of ballast secured in the aircraft's nose to stabilize it and another 700-800 kg heavy and 'over-engineered' landing gear,

and the heavier and less capable 'hybrid' version of ELTA's EL/M-2032 lightweight multi-mode radar, jointly made with india.

 

[salute]

Tejas and jf-17 carries same amount of fuel around 2400kg
Then y do tejas have less combat radius..

jf capabilities maybe faked by pakis and chinese.

 

[R.parida]

Reduced drag,better TWR, next gen composites, reduced RCS, AESA,next gen Astra +Israeli AAMs. The Tejas Mk-2 is going to be kick-ass!
But it doesnt seems sufficient for IAF, some where they are seeing more potent plane may be sixth generation .. Bunch of looters trying to scrap MK2 project.

 

[R.parida]

http://idrw.org/home-built-tejas-to-make-up-for-critical-shortage-of-fighter-jets/#more-75040

 

[Indibomber]

Just read that LM are going to setup F-16 IN line in India and Tejas MK-2 is already scrapped, i hope this to fill critical gaps only(Very Short Term). Otherwise this is a disastrous call by DM.

 

[The enlightened]

Just read that LM are going to setup F-16 IN line in India and Tejas MK-2 is already scrapped, i hope this to fill critical gaps only(Very Short Term). Otherwise this is a disastrous call by DM.

Just a Saurav Jha tweet. Lets wait for confirmation.

 

[bose]

the Mk 1 weighs 6500 kg empty,

200-300 kg of ballast secured in the aircraft's nose to stabilize it and another 700-800 kg heavy and 'over-engineered' landing gear,

and the heavier and less capable 'hybrid' version of ELTA's EL/M-2032 lightweight multi-mode radar, jointly made with india.

Query from my end:

Why was that put up in first place ?? Any reason ?


What will LCA lose if anything by reduce of 1000 Kg weight ?

 

[Yumdoot]

Hain,

What will we do with F-16IN, deliver water to Maldives!?

 

[tharun]

Chinese J-10 had same combat radius of 500Km with payload of 7000kg.
If we can increase length of tejas by 1.5 to 2 meters and wing area that will employ more fuel,payload and range

 

[Kyubi]

Reduced drag,better TWR, next gen composites, reduced RCS, AESA,next gen Astra +Israeli AAMs. The Tejas Mk-2 is going to be kick-ass!
But it doesnt seems sufficient for IAF, some where they are seeing more potent plane may be sixth generation .. Bunch of looters trying to scrap MK2 project.

Multiple Ejector Racks would be a force multiplier, I wish the cranked delta wing and the pylons are up to that task !!! I had read a blog by Trishul where he says that MER is an option but I've not seen Tejas with it, so don't know whether has it ever been tested. But 2 MERs with 4 missiles launching capability would be a welcome boon

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Multiple Ejector Racks would be a force multiplier, I wish the cranked delta wing and the pylons are up to that task !!! I had read a blog by Trishul where he says that MER is an option but I've not seen Tejas with it, so don't know whether has it ever been tested. But 2 MERs with 4 missiles launching capability would be a welcome boon

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

lets not give IAF ANY MORE NEW IDEAS

otherwise they would use them to furthur stall the LCA and put in those as preconditions for acceptance

lets first clear the FOC hurdle

then develop MERs whatever on the go

 

[punjab47]

It's times of India, they also reported Kejriwal will be future PM. :biggrin2: