ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[raju1982]

I think, DRDO lab stuck/having difficulties in developing air to ground mode/ground surveillance modes
DRDO labs already developed or deployed aesa/aaau for EW, air search, missile seeker etc

GMTI and other moods are all about softwares.

 

[Satish Sharma]

I think, DRDO lab stuck/having difficulties in developing air to ground mode/ground surveillance modes
DRDO labs already developed or deployed aesa/aaau for EW, air search, missile seeker etc

They have said way back uttam is ready there is no such problem in air to ground et etc..
Problem is mass production and supply chains..
In some exhibition uttam has showed it's total 18 modes Wikipedia has some 14 modes published

 

[johnj]

They have said way back uttam is ready there is no such problem in air to ground et etc..

They are saying same thing for past half decade

Problem is mass production and supply chains..

Point noted

In some exhibition uttam has showed it's total 18 modes

In paper or in stimulation

Wikipedia has some 14 modes published

Wikipedia is good for basic info, not for detailed data, hence it is better to neglect wiki in this case
Anyways, DRDO site, and in exhibition, it is clearly shown all major modes of uttam

If mass production is the problem, then how hal can offer uttam for lca mk1a ??? See this is how DRDO works, big in words, very little in practice, No wonder GoI giving importance to private sector R&D, manufacturing

 

[Satish Sharma]

They are saying same thing for past half decade

Point noted

In paper or in stimulation

Wikipedia is good for basic info, not for detailed data, hence it is better to neglect wiki in this case
Anyways, DRDO site, and in exhibition, it is clearly shown all major modes of uttam

If mass production is the problem, then how hal can offer uttam for lca mk1a ??? See this is how DRDO works, big in words, very little in practice, No wonder GoI giving importance to private sector R&D, manufacturing

Supply line were late established before it was said 21st.mk1a will have uttam now they say 41st Tejas will have uttam . It's completely developed and tested successfully.. it is equipped on a FOC Tejas it has tracked another clean Tejas from 151km.. way back there is no such problem .who told you there is problems initially that ~700+trm baseline uttam was used but then it was increased to GaAs based 912TRMs. As engine was providing enough power to it. Trms are more than rafale's radar...

 

[johnj]

who told you there is problems initially

In the initial stage of uttam development, DRDO lab experienced issues with air to ground mods

Supply line were late established before it was said 21st.mk1a will have uttam now they say 41st Tejas will have uttam

LOL, no offence, but
when GoI going to build a manufacturing unit for uttam - HAL already manufacturing mk1a,

It's completely developed and tested successfully

OK

 

[jai jaganath]

New fighter jet version by March, LCA Mk2 by 2027

The LCA Mk1A, which was cleared for procurement by the Centre in 2021, will add the much-needed numbers to the fighter jet strength of the Air Force and is much more capable than the earlier version, as it is equipped with new age radars, electronic warfare systems and mid-air refuelling features.

m.economictimes.com

Officials said the first LCA Mk2 is expected to be ready for serial production by 2027 and work is already underway to get the prototype ready. They added that jigs and fixtures to produce the aircraft are already in place and work is progressing as per schedule for the first flight. The MK2 will be capable of staying in the air longer than previous versions and will also have significantly more weapons payload capacity.

By Manu Pabby

 

[MirageBlue]

New fighter jet version by March, LCA Mk2 by 2027

The LCA Mk1A, which was cleared for procurement by the Centre in 2021, will add the much-needed numbers to the fighter jet strength of the Air Force and is much more capable than the earlier version, as it is equipped with new age radars, electronic warfare systems and mid-air refuelling features.

m.economictimes.com

Officials said the first LCA Mk2 is expected to be ready for serial production by 2027 and work is already underway to get the prototype ready. They added that jigs and fixtures to produce the aircraft are already in place and work is progressing as per schedule for the first flight. The MK2 will be capable of staying in the air longer than previous versions and will also have significantly more weapons payload capacity.

By Manu Pabby

Does the article state when the first flight for the Mk2 will be? I would expect at least 3 years worth of flight testing for clearing the FBW for the full envelope plus the basic weapons fit. The plan to induct it is more pragmatic this time around than it was with Tejas Mk1. There won't be any such thing as IOC or FOC but rather the prototypes will be built to the production standard itself.

 

[kamaal]

Some defense journalists bringing the same information with pinch of salt. Tarmak already gave the exact update about mk2 program, they'll only bring the prototype in 2025. No production can start in 2027, even Chinese or USA doesn't have that kind of might. This is written to just keep the discussion going on, I know this trick since 2008.

 

[Zoid Raptor]

KAAN from F-16 cockpit

 

[Zoid Raptor]

KAAN from F-16 cockpit

View attachment 241479

Turks now got their KAAN flying which is supposedly 5th gen per their claims. Even if it's RCS and stealth factor is on par with Su-57, it's a remarkable achievement given their economy and the non-existence of a defense ecosystem a couple of decades ago while we aren't even able to develop a full scale model of the MWF which isn't very different to the LCA and I now doubt if we'd be able to get a working prototype of the AMCA by 2040

I'm confident Islamic countries will line up for the KAAN if they get their pricing right given their success with the Bayraktars. Pakis will now have an option to procure the J-31s' or the KAANs' in a few years. A teachable moment for our industry and armed forces

 

[no smoking]

They have said way back uttam is ready there is no such problem in air to ground et etc..
Problem is mass production and supply chains..

Most of the times (>90%), that is the designer or planner's fault.

It is the basic rule of designing:
As a designer, the manufacturing departments' capabilities of mass production must be part of your consideration;
As a planner, you need to make sure every sub-system developer to reach mass production stage in time.

 

[raju1982]

Turks now got their KAAN flying which is supposedly 5th gen per their claims. Even if it's RCS and stealth factor is on par with Su-57, it's a remarkable achievement given their economy and the non-existence of a defense ecosystem a couple of decades ago while we aren't even able to develop a full scale model of the MWF which isn't very different to the LCA and I now doubt if we'd be able to get a working prototype of the AMCA by 2040

I'm confident Islamic countries will line up for the KAAN if they get their pricing right given their success with the Bayraktars. Pakis will now have an option to procure the J-31s' or the KAANs' in a few years. A teachable moment for our industry and armed forces

very depressing. India needs a 5th gen fighter asap but our AMCA is yet to even cross proto stage. Total failure of Modi govt. So is drone.

 

[cyclops]

LOL, no offence, but
when GoI going to build a manufacturing unit for uttam - HAL already manufacturing mk1a,

OK

HAL will probably only be the lead integrator and Astra Microwave probably the production partner.

MOU has already been signed last year.



This is from Astra Microwave's Earnings Call over a year before the MOU.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Turks now got their KAAN flying which is supposedly 5th gen per their claims. Even if it's RCS and stealth factor is on par with Su-57, it's a remarkable achievement given their economy and the non-existence of a defense ecosystem a couple of decades ago while we aren't even able to develop a full scale model of the MWF which isn't very different to the LCA and I now doubt if we'd be able to get a working prototype of the AMCA by 2040

I'm confident Islamic countries will line up for the KAAN if they get their pricing right given their success with the Bayraktars. Pakis will now have an option to procure the J-31s' or the KAANs' in a few years. A teachable moment for our industry and armed forces

I have no hopes left.. nothing, we will import su57 in future. Even Turks have there 5gen now. Although many European firms are working with them like bae systems.. our suit buit wala beurocrats have failed us.. they dont even want to order what is ready like LCH prachand..
Forget about 5gen. It will take 25 years..

 

[samsaptaka]

Turks now got their KAAN flying which is supposedly 5th gen per their claims. Even if it's RCS and stealth factor is on par with Su-57, it's a remarkable achievement given their economy and the non-existence of a defense ecosystem a couple of decades ago while we aren't even able to develop a full scale model of the MWF which isn't very different to the LCA and I now doubt if we'd be able to get a working prototype of the AMCA by 2040

I'm confident Islamic countries will line up for the KAAN if they get their pricing right given their success with the Bayraktars. Pakis will now have an option to procure the J-31s' or the KAANs' in a few years. A teachable moment for our industry and armed forces

Sad truth. What our import defence forces and military hw diplomacy loving gormint and corrupt MoD beuracracy don't care and don't know is that the pisslamic ummah is United and should be treated as one single enemy, hence if turkroaches have KAAN it's as good as porkies getting it sooner than later . We're so shafted unless we quickly induct mk2 and mk1a in numbers and up the production to chinka rubber stamp levels. But sadly IAF keeps dreaming about still importing piecemeal mrfa fighters knowing full well sarkar will at best only allow another 36 of them ....

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Sad truth. What our import defence forces and military hw diplomacy loving gormint and corrupt MoD beuracracy don't care and don't know is that the pisslamic ummah is United and should be treated as one single enemy, hence if turkroaches have KAAN it's as good as porkies getting it sooner than later . We're so shafted unless we quickly induct mk2 and mk1a in numbers and up the production to chinka rubber stamp levels. But sadly IAF keeps dreaming about still importing piecemeal mrfa fighters knowing full well sarkar will at best only allow another 36 of them ....

Turks can't ship the KAAN to pakis if America blocks the engines from being exported. They couldn't sell A129 Mangusta attack helis earlier for the same reason. The KAAN itself is 10 years away from being mission ready because Erdog couldn't help himself and had the tat fly before CDR. With it's current engines the KAAN doesn't have enough juice to power all it's sensors, it also has the lowest T/W ratio among all currently serving fighters. Turks will end up going the Chinese way and reverse engineer the F110 engines with hired European talent. Then they'll uprate the engines and call it a day. The AMCA is being delayed because it has a lot of clauses that requires the development of every critical technology before LSP is authorized. MRFA is a dead meme. A few more Rafale squadrons is the most IAF can squeeze out, and honestly I'm all for more Rafales. The MK2 Tejas however needs to enter service as fast as possible.

 

[BON PLAN]

New fighter jet version by March, LCA Mk2 by 2027

The LCA Mk1A, which was cleared for procurement by the Centre in 2021, will add the much-needed numbers to the fighter jet strength of the Air Force and is much more capable than the earlier version, as it is equipped with new age radars, electronic warfare systems and mid-air refuelling features.

m.economictimes.com

Officials said the first LCA Mk2 is expected to be ready for serial production by 2027 and work is already underway to get the prototype ready. They added that jigs and fixtures to produce the aircraft are already in place and work is progressing as per schedule for the first flight. The MK2 will be capable of staying in the air longer than previous versions and will also have significantly more weapons payload capacity.

By Manu Pabby

Mk2 is a totally new aircraft. Like SH18 is to FA18, or Gripen E to Gripen C.
2027 for serial production is absolutely impossible :
All new bird need 4 years for field test. As the new bird has no prototyp or preserial unit ready so far, the air campagne will end in >2027. The industrial ramp up can only began in mid 2027. add 3 years for the main components lead time : 2030 is the best possible entry in service. Not possible to go gaster or to take risks to built some components before the end of field and static tests. It is highly risky. See F35 structure and engine problems....
And I'm sorry to add that HAL has a poor schedule record...

So 2030, not before.

 

[BON PLAN]

I have no hopes left.. nothing, we will import su57 in future. Even Turks have there 5gen now. Although many European firms are working with them like bae systems.. our suit buit wala beurocrats have failed us.. they dont even want to order what is ready like LCH prachand..
Forget about 5gen. It will take 25 years..

Turks have 5th gen ?
It's not because you have a jet with internal weapons bay and twin outcantered tail that it ias a 5th gen operationnal fighter.
As for now KAAN is a nice aero show jet. The first video of it in the sky shows a bird flying slowly, in a straight direction, with landing gear extended. The road is very long before having a mature weapon system.
And what about the radar, the electronic systems, the weapons?

 

[BON PLAN]

Turks now got their KAAN flying which is supposedly 5th gen per their claims. Even if it's RCS and stealth factor is on par with Su-57, it's a remarkable achievement given their economy and the non-existence of a defense ecosystem a couple of decades ago while we aren't even able to develop a full scale model of the MWF which isn't very different to the LCA and I now doubt if we'd be able to get a working prototype of the AMCA by 2040

I'm confident Islamic countries will line up for the KAAN if they get their pricing right given their success with the Bayraktars. Pakis will now have an option to procure the J-31s' or the KAANs' in a few years. A teachable moment for our industry and armed forces

J-31 is more mature than KAAN.
and KAAN use US engines, and probably some european components : unlikely to be selled in Pak.

 

[Satish Sharma]

Turks have 5th gen ?
It's not because you have a jet with internal weapons bay and twin outcantered tail that it ias a 5th gen operationnal fighter.
As for now KAAN is a nice aero show jet. The first video of it in the sky shows a bird flying slowly, in a straight direction, with landing gear extended. The road is very long before having a mature weapon system.
And what about the radar, the electronic systems, the weapons?

I know mosts of subsystems turkey uses in its weapons are partially made & assembled in turkey.
Like the radar for there upgrades of f16. Which is jv with British firm. Which they are using on akinci drone. I dont think they even got a single most important technologies through it. They will never gets most important techs. Neither it is as advance this Europeans countries are using.
Same is the case with there Hisar defence systems a knock off of french-italian eurosam. No elite tech is given to turkey neither is made in turkey..
Same will be the case with kaan.
As compared to india, we do have our sub-systems like radars now GaN based, IR systems like for su30s upgrade.
Fly by wire , RAM, composites, EOTS is under testing now, MAWS, EW suits, many more such systems..
This takes alot of time. Koreans & Turks have skipped it and just brought it from western firms..
everything is stucked because of engine.
Deal with Safran should be signed as early as possible. I think we are stucked because of f414.