ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[NutCracker]

Looks like the IAF does not want to be involved in the TEDBF since they are not in the driver's seat .. the Navy is .. and the Navy is adamant on getting a pure deck based fighter . As the IAF is already fixed in the AMCA they would not dilute their resources on yet another medium fighter
And similarly the Navy is not interested in the N AMCA which would compromise deck based operations.
I too wish the TEDBF would be the Indian rafale + rafale M . And the AMCA would be the Indian f 35 A+ C .. but it is not to be .. yet.

Twin GE414 with Canards won't be "medium" fighter.
It will easily have 29000+ KG MTOW. It should be shoved down to IAF.

IAF should be only allowed to buy 36 more rafales , let their be 4 squadrons of spear head.

 

[IndianHawk]

Lca mk2// mwf timeline will be faster than what Shukla is anticipating .

We are going for development cum production method for mwf. So no technology demonstration this time directly start with production ready prototypes .

In this method their will be concurrent development with production. So production will start from 2026-27. While prototype continue testing concurrently.

Gripen ng followed similar method.

 

[karn]

Twin GE414 with Canards won't be "medium" fighter.
It will easily have 27000+ KG MTOW. It should be shoved down to IAF.

IAF should be only allowed to buy 36 more rafales , let their be 4 squadrons of spear head.

The developer themselves aren't confident that they can meet both IAF and navy requirements on the same platform. In such a scenario nothing can be shoved on anyone. No one wants to relive the "requirements were to ambitious" saga again.

 

[IndianHawk]

The developer themselves aren't confident that they can meet both IAF and navy requirements on the same platform. In such a scenario nothing can be shoved on anyone. No one wants to relive the "requirements were to ambitious" saga again.

It's more of a timeline issue. Tedbf isn't coming before 2032. Then spinoff orca would take 2 or more years to fruitfy.

At this timeline iaf will be better off ordering more AMCA mk1 if required and put money for AMCA mk2 procurement later.

 

[Narasimh]

Watch the whole talk here

 

[MirageBlue]

The developer themselves aren't confident that they can meet both IAF and navy requirements on the same platform. In such a scenario nothing can be shoved on anyone. No one wants to relive the "requirements were to ambitious" saga again.

Which platform are you referring to? The development agencies involved were not confident about AMCA being navalised. They could easily do it the other way around, by having a TEDBF made into a land lubber for the IAF.

I had spoken to Mao sir about this long ago when there was no TEDBF on the horizon and that is exactly what he stated- making a naval fighter into an Air Force fighter is doable since the design can be made lighter in many ways, but making an Air Force fighter design into a naval fighter is not at all an ideal solution. I'm amazed that he was so forthright, because that is exactly what has happened. The IN has gone in for a clean-sheet TEDBF design rather than taking an IAF AMCA design and navalizing it.

 

[MirageBlue]

Delivery is expected to start by 2030 and not end by 2030.
On an average it takes 5-6 years from first flight to mass production.
If first flight is in 2023 then once can expect start of production by 2030.

As I had mentioned, the tender for the canard bearings mentioned production starting in 2026 and ending in 2030. Why would they order bearings for production in 2026 if the first production Tejas Mk2 will fly in 2030?

 

[IndianHawk]

As I had mentioned, the tender for the canard bearings mentioned production starting in 2026 and ending in 2030. Why would they order bearings for production in 2026 if the first production Tejas Mk2 will fly in 2030?

It's concurrent development and production model.

 

[MirageBlue]

It's concurrent development and production model.

The difference between Tejas Mk1 and Tejas Mk2 programs is that ADA no longer needs a Technology Demonstrator program which has to be completed before the first Prototypes are built and flown. That doesn't mean concurrent development and production. Production cannot be started when there will be hundreds of change requests coming on a quarterly basis. It is bound to be a disaster that way. And there will be plenty of CRs even though the Tejas Mk1 is the baseline and there has been a lot of learning from it.

The 3 Tejas Mk2 prototypes will be akin to the LSP (Limited Series Production) Tejas Mk1s, with them being built to the Tejas Mk2 spec. But there will be changes that may be brought along as the design progresses through ground and flight tests.

 

[SUPERPOWER]

Are bhai 2023 main ude ya na ude ek baar plane ki zalak dikhlado...yaha sab dardiyo ka aada ilaj yeh dekhte hi hojayega..

 

[IndianHawk]

The difference between Tejas Mk1 and Tejas Mk2 programs is that ADA no longer needs a Technology Demonstrator program which has to be completed before the first Prototypes are built and flown. That doesn't mean concurrent development and production. Production cannot be started when there will be hundreds of change requests coming on a quarterly basis. It is bound to be a disaster that way. And there will be plenty of CRs even though the Tejas Mk1 is the baseline and there has been a lot of learning from it.

The 3 Tejas Mk2 prototypes will be akin to the LSP (Limited Series Production) Tejas Mk1s, with them being built to the Tejas Mk2 spec. But there will be changes that may be brought along as the design progresses through ground and flight tests.

Yes this is what meant by development cum production. Once all flight critical technologies are tested on prototypes production should start. Rest can be retrofitted since internal space is no longer a constraint like lca.

 

[NutCracker]

It's more of a timeline issue. Tedbf isn't coming before 2032. Then spinoff orca would take 2 or more years to fruitfy.

At this timeline iaf will be better off ordering more AMCA mk1 if required and put money for AMCA mk2 procurement later.

SEE , Iirc AMCA timeline is projected to be 1-1.5 years early than TEDBF , but AMCA involves lots of complications like IWB, it's capacity and stealth .
So i think TEDBF induction will take over AMCA timeline.

Also In an Ideal world projects like twin engine MMRCA/TEDBF are completed to learn things or two before going towards 5th gen.

 

[abingdonboy]

Of 2023 first flight then roll out must be in 2022 right
Noob here

First flight 2023-4, 5 years of testing (very very very optimistic when you look at GRIPEN NG), series production commencing 2028-29 (they plan to skip LSP) with a 9-12 month lead time meaning deliveries to user in FY2030-1.


This is the most optimal plan imaginable with almost no room for error. It also seems to imagine that the IAF will give firm orders ~2026/7 whilst MK.2 is still under testing, their track record does not seem to support this. Indian users seem to wait until testing is over then add on a few years for additional deliberations before they place orders (LUH, LCH, HTT-40, NAMICA, ATAGS etc etc )

this is the same airforce that won’t even mention MK.2 unless prompted.

 

[MirageBlue]

Watch the whole talk here

Video unavailable now

 

[abingdonboy]

Lca mk2// mwf timeline will be faster than what Shukla is anticipating .

We are going for development cum production method for mwf. So no technology demonstration this time directly start with production ready prototypes .

In this method their will be concurrent development with production. So production will start from 2026-27. While prototype continue testing concurrently.

Gripen ng followed similar method.

1) Gripen NG has taken an age to be ready (funny how they promised india it was ready for delivery in the MMRCA contest)
2) the biggest constraint will, as always, be bureaucratic. The first airframe is already being fabricated and even today it doesn’t have CCS sanction. LCA MK1A was ready for orders ~2018 and it wasn’t until March 2021 they inked the contract. With support like this you get what you get

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

Yes this is what meant by development cum production. Once all flight critical technologies are tested on prototypes production should start. Rest can be retrofitted since internal space is no longer a constraint like lca.

Thier was @abingdonboy who was saying Tejas mk 2 was a lie where are you now ?

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

1) Gripen NG has taken an age to be ready (funny how they promised india it was ready for delivery in the MMRCA contest)
2) the biggest constraint will, as always, be bureaucratic. The first airframe is already being fabricated and even today it doesn’t have CCS sanction. LCA MK1A was ready for orders ~2018 and it wasn’t until March 2021 they inked the contract. With support like this you get what you get

Weren't you saying Tejas mk 2 is imaginary?

 

[abingdonboy]

Thier was @abingdonboy who was saying Tejas mk 2 was a lie where are you now ?

When have I ever said that?

 

[abingdonboy]

Weren't you saying Tejas mk 2 is imaginary?

No.

 

[Abdus Salem killed]

No.

LCA TEJAS MK1 & MK1A: News and Discussion

Really one thing missing our engine. I dont thnk govt is serious about that. I think they're serious about it. Just that they're not ready to spend the money that it's going to take. There's also ejection seats missing. Don't know how feasible it is to develop our own.

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