ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[ersakthivel]

You do one thing. You tell me the name of a single person(except you of course) who is ready to believe that Mini AWACS is being developed for production. There is no point in repeating the same things. And yes, there is no modified AWACS LCA unless you provide proof. And you are terribly mistaken if you think that a random comment on a blog can be taken as proof. This is the practice of pakistanis on PDF. If you are gonna continue like this, you may as well try visiting that forum as it is filled by people who literally burn pages of discussions by relying on such sources. You cannot convince a single person on this forum using these lengthy posts and blabbering. This discussion is over from my side. I would appreciate it if you don't reply to this post as well.

The reason I don't question senior members is because they have credibility. You, on the other hand have destroyed whatever u had by showing me that you rely on such sources. Its simple, a weapon doesn't exists till we have some proof to confirm its existence. Mini AWACS LCA doesn't exists at this moment, bring me proof and I will believe you. Otherwise, you can keep on asking these question and no one will care about them.

Well defcon1,

I NEVER SAID THAT MINI AWACS LCA EXIST AT THIS MOMENT.

ALL I SAID WAS DESIGNING IS BEING DONE AND QUOTED A SOURCE FOR IT.

THE LCA TEJAS WILL HAVE THE ASSISTANCE OF EW CRAFTS(modified LCA or any other craft) TO LAUNCH LONG RANGE BVRS.PERIOD.that was the main point of contention, not a mini awcas role for LCA.I brought this subject up only for that point of view,not to prove that a mini awacs lca is produced.


IT WILL FIRE ASTRA MK-1,MK-2 WITH CLOSE TO 150 KM RANGE IN THIS FASHION with the assistance of ew craft(any craft not modified LCA alone),LIKE THE SAME WAY GRIPPEN NG IS GOING TO DO WITH 150 KM RANGE METEOR.
The f-18 ew craft can assist any other fighter squadron ,not another F-18 squadron alone.

WITH MULTIPLE LAUNCHER PADS IT CAN CARRY AS MANY LONG RANGE BVRs as possible like RAFALE does with multiple launcher racks.

No amount of statements from ANY SENIOR MEMBER is going to change that.


And if the 120 kn ge EPE engine is provided for a limited number of LCAs then it will have enough spare power to do the job as EW craft.

The 120 kn EPE has the same form fit as GE_414 that is about to go into MK-2.





And AJAI SHUKLA DIDNOT do creative writing in that post either.

In any forum neither senior member nor junior member matter, what matters is only facts and fictions.


And I know the point of view of the senior member with my discussions with him in the past hundred pages.

Is it a rule that senior members need not provide any proof and keep on quoting all their stats from one racially motivated piece written on a 2009 edition of FLIGHT GLOBAL?

Is this level of probity you wish to see in this forum?


IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS A GENUINE DISCUSSION YOU CAN GO TO ANY KEY PUBLISHING THREAD AND SEE THE LEVEL OF MATURITY IN DISCUSSION.

AND NO SENIOR JUNIOR STUFF WILL PASS FOR POSTING DUBIOUS STUFF.


THANKS.

 

[SATISH]

Well thhe GE Engine program has 2 modification programs for the GE-414 engines one is the GE 414 EPE and the other is the GE 414 EDE engines. The GE 414 INS6 is more like a compromise between the 2. This prompted the USN to go for the same engine for the re-engine program of the F 18 Super Hornet.

 

[Defcon 1]

Well defcon1,

I NEVER SAID THAT MINI AWACS LCA EXIST AT THIS MOMENT.

ALL I SAID WAS DESIGNING IS BEING DONE AND QUOTED A SOURCE FOR IT.

THE LCA TEJAS WILL HAVE THE ASSISTANCE OF EW CRAFTS(modified LCA or any other craft) TO LAUNCH LONG RANGE BVRS.PERIOD.that was the main point of contention, not a mini awcas role for LCA.I brought this subject up only for that point of view,not to prove that a mini awacs lca is produced.


IT WILL FIRE ASTRA MK-1,MK-2 WITH CLOSE TO 150 KM RANGE IN THIS FASHION with the assistance of ew craft(any craft not modified LCA alone),LIKE THE SAME WAY GRIPPEN NG IS GOING TO DO WITH 150 KM RANGE METEOR.
The f-18 ew craft can assist any other fighter squadron ,not another F-18 squadron alone.

WITH MULTIPLE LAUNCHER PADS IT CAN CARRY AS MANY LONG RANGE BVRs as possible like RAFALE does with multiple launcher racks.

No amount of statements from ANY SENIOR MEMBER is going to change that.


And if the 120 kn ge EPE engine is provided for a limited number of LCAs then it will have enough spare power to do the job as EW craft.

The 120 kn EPE has the same form fit as GE_414 that is about to go into MK-2.





And AJAI SHUKLA DIDNOT do creative writing in that post either.

In any forum neither senior member nor junior member matter, what matters is only facts and fictions.


And I know the point of view of the senior member with my discussions with him in the past hundred pages.

Is it a rule that senior members need not provide any proof and keep on quoting all their stats from one racially motivated piece written on a 2009 edition of FLIGHT GLOBAL?

Is this level of probity you wish to see in this forum?


IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS A GENUINE DISCUSSION YOU CAN GO TO ANY KEY PUBLISHING THREAD AND SEE THE LEVEL OF MATURITY IN DISCUSSION.

AND NO SENIOR JUNIOR STUFF WILL PASS FOR POSTING DUBIOUS STUFF.


THANKS.

As the oracle says....

Humans, on the other hand, continue to believe that no Mini AWACS version of LCA is planned or being designed.

 

[ersakthivel]

Well thhe GE Engine program has 2 modification programs for the GE-414 engines one is the GE 414 EPE and the other is the GE 414 EDE engines. The GE 414 INS6 is more like a compromise between the 2. This prompted the USN to go for the same engine for the re-engine program of the F 18 Super Hornet.

The GE engine program had two further developmental versions.

414 ede is higher endurance version, with lesser power and longer life.
414 epe is enhanced power version with 120 kn with same engine life.

That was the general information available.So what is the thrust of GE 414 INS6 ?

 

[ersakthivel]

As the oracle says....

Humans, on the other hand, continue to believe that no Mini AWACS version of LCA is planned or being designed.

Whether AJAI SHUKLA is thick source or thin source is another topic for discussion.

So in your opinion what was being tried on PV-1?
What is the meaning of the words PV-1 is being modified for EW role?

Remeber when DRDO chose embraer for aewcs program ,the specified modification for the airframe was carried out by the plane maker who has design details for the plane.

So if IAF wants to modify any plane for ew role, it has to approach the makers of the plane for suitable modification.

Has IAf approached any one for ew craft modification? Or IAF feels it doesnot need dedicated Ew crafts which act as force multipliers?

So ADA is qualified for modifying the LCA for ew role as it has original design info on the plane, eventhuogh it is a single engine plane.

Once again I didnot use the word mini awacs.

 

[Defcon 1]

Whether AJAI SHUKLA is thick source or thin source is another topic for discussion.

So in your opinion what was being tried on PV-1?
What is the meaning of the words PV-1 is being modified for EW role?

Remeber when DRDO chose embraer for aewcs program ,the specified modification for the airframe was carried out by the plane maker who has design details for the plane.

So if IAF wants to modify any plane for ew role, it has to approach the makers of the plane for suitable modification.

Has IAf approached any one for ew craft modification? Or IAF feels it doesnot need dedicated Ew crafts which act as force multipliers?

So ADA is qualified for modifying the LCA for ew role as it has original design info on the plane, eventhuogh it is a single engine plane.

Once again I didnot use the word mini awacs.

As I have already said, you can continue ranting all you want to, You won't be able to convince anyone. Bring me a single person who believes that a version of LCA dedicated for EW is planned and then we will talk. Farewell.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

You haven't used..

What is told that PV-1 used as a test bed for new EW suit.. nothing more, nothing less..

Once again I didnot use the word mini awacs.

 

[ersakthivel]

As I have already said, you can continue ranting all you want to, You won't be able to convince anyone. Bring me a single person who believes that a version of LCA dedicated for EW is planned and then we will talk. Farewell.

Next time don't put your own words like mini-awacs into another persons mouth and call them ranters.
And then calling them the oracle ,and asking them to find another person to prove it .
End of discussion

 

[rahulrds1]

self delete

 

[SATISH]

The GE engine program had two further developmental versions.

414 ede is higher endurance version, with lesser power and longer life.
414 epe is enhanced power version with 120 kn with same engine life.

That was the general information available.So what is the thrust of GE 414 INS6 ?

We still dpnt know that...but the USN has also opted for the same engine so I presume that it is going to be good.

 

[ersakthivel]

We still dpnt know that...but the USN has also opted for the same engine so I presume that it is going to be good.

The hornet has older 414 verion ,it is 20 years old tech.
The EPE-Enhanced Power Engine-100 kn with longer engine life.
The EDE-Enhanced Durability Engine-120 kn.

These two are the further developed versions of the GE-414 ,That's what I understand from the open source news.
According to Boeing official, Vivek Lal's interview India will get the highest power version of Ge-414 ,if it wanted.

The 414-EPE will enter production line once it gets sufficient orders,that is also opensource news.
This is more likely as F-35 is getting delayed,Hornets are going to be upgraded with either one of the above versions ,whatever desired.Hornets can do well with 100 kn engine since they are single engined.

Won't it be better for tejas to go for higher powered engine or 100 kn engine itself will do the job?

EPE is to likely to be favoured as it will enhance the FA-18.
Also the SAAB is supposed to be evaluating 414-EPE version for their Swiss GRIPPEN NG order,it is also open source news.

So both EDE and EPE will enter production shortly it seems .

In the light of these developments can you give us any news ,what will be thrust of the TEJAS engine?

Is it going to be EDe level or EPE level?

The GE 414 INS6 engine is finalised for the TEJAS is the only concrete news.
We don't knoe yet which version is the GE-INS6 and with what thrust?
Since you have services background you can clarify this matter.
Since You have IAF background ,you can clear the matter.

Also what is the max thrust of the Ge-404 engine slated for the Sp series production version of TEJAS MK1?
ADA website says it is 90 plus?
Is it correct?

 

[uss]

Boeing program vice-president Kory Mathews confirmed that the F414 Enhanced Performance Engine would be the baseline for the company's offer to India. The idea of the engine has been around for some time, but GE is clearly ready to commit the funds necessary to make the engine a reality.

GE Brings Good Things To Hornet, Gripen

 

[uss]

The hornet has older 414 verion ,it is 20 years old tech.
The EPE-Enhanced Power Engine-100 kn with longer engine life.
The EDE-Enhanced Durability Engine-120 kn.

ersakthivel, i think the EDE is meant for Enhance durability in the 1st priority but it can also up rated by 15%-20% of thrust & EPE is for Enhance Performance where it is meant for increasing the thrust in it's 1st priority.
In the below pdf link it says as
"The F414 Enhanced Durability Engine (EDE) incorporates additional advanced technology, which can be retrofitted into the F414-GE-400 to deliver enhanced component capability for a significant reduction in ownership costs, or up to 20 % increased thrust improved specific fuel consumption.

http://www.mtu.de/de/products_services/military_business/programs/f414/F414_ProdBl.pdf
General Electric F414 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

F414 growth stages :
F414

 

[ersakthivel]

ersakthivel, i think the EDE is meant for Enhance durability in the 1st priority but it can also up rated by 15%-20% of thrust & EPE is for Enhance Performance where it is meant for increasing the thrust in it's 1st priority.
In the below pdf link it says as
"The F414 Enhanced Durability Engine (EDE) incorporates additional advanced technology, which can be retrofitted into the F414-GE-400 to deliver enhanced component capability for a significant reduction in ownership costs, or up to 20 % increased thrust improved specific fuel consumption.

http://www.mtu.de/de/products_services/military_business/programs/f414/F414_ProdBl.pdf
General Electric F414 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

F414 growth stages :
F414

thanks USS.


So there won't be any underpower issues in tejas.The engine can be configured to required power.


GE Brings Good Things To Hornet, Gripen

Evidence of this trend may be coming to light. At yesterday's roll-out of the 500th Super Hornet/Growler, Boeing program vice-president Kory Mathews confirmed that the F414 Enhanced Performance Engine would be the baseline for the company's offer to India.



That would take the EPE up to 26,500 pounds of thrust, giving it the best thrust/weight ratio of any fighter engine -- almost 11:1. Alternatively (an option understood to be attracting interest at Saab) the EPE could be delivered with a 10 percent uprate and very generous temperature margins, extending its life and reducing fighter life-cycle costs.

GE rates the new components at a technology readiness level (TRL) of 6 (indicating successful prototype testing) and notes that it has developed 17 new or derivative engines successfully from the same TRL.

So it may be ready in time for tejas mk-2.This must be the reason that saab is considering the same EPE engine for it's grippen Ng version.

The EPE "will not make much difference at an air show", says Boeing chief test pilot Ric Traven, but dramatically improves the fighter's performance at high speed and altitude, halving supersonic acceleration times. For the Gripen, the extra thrust would translate into further-improved supercruise (supersonic level flight without afterburner) capability.

So it may give huge boost for the tejas high altitude supersonic performance and may provide the same supercruise ability for TEJAS in mk-2 version.

 

[ersakthivel]

So there is no truth in the claim by a senior member that the EPE is a paper tiger.
Now will the same senior member still maintain that TEJAS is below the level of MIG_21 UPgraded (4 th gen according to flight global article)?
Now I hope another senior member who interrogated me in the last page for providing thin source regarding the EW role for tejas will also interrogate the senior member who posted that EPE is a paper tiger.

If 120 kn power is derived from EPE,then ADA can use the excess power to convert a few tejas fighters into fulfledged EW craft like F-18 ew version,provided IAF asks for it.

SO there may be no problems for tejas sqns to fire any long range BVrs of any range , and no sukhoi commander needs to shower his benevolence on tejas for the same purpose.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2011/04/designers-insist-tejas-will-belie-all.html


So the following passage from the above interview is correct.

He pointed out that the Tejas Mark I, still being flight-tested, had been flown to just 85 per cent of its full capability. The Tejas Mark II --- in which a more powerful GE-414 engine will replace the current GE-404 engine --- would perform another 15 per cent better.

"The Tejas Mark I will expand its performance envelope to its full capability by end-2012. And a major performance boost will come from the Tejas Mark II's new GE-414 engine, which we have signed a US $700 million (Rs 3,135 crore) contract to build here in India.


The Mark II will outperform the Mark I by about 15 per cent in the key aspects of take-off run, rate of climb, acceleration, and turn rate. Most of this would come from the higher thrust of the GE-414 engine. Another 2-3 per cent benefit would come from better aerodynamics"¦ since we will re-engineer the fighter to accommodate the new engine. That overall 35-40 per cent improvement would make the LCA the world's premier light fighter," says Subramanyam.

So AJAI SHUKLA is spot on in the above report,it seems.

Since people call him a thin source the senior member may please note that AJAI SHUKLA is only the interviewer.
The man who gave the interview is ADA chief SUBRAMANIUM.

I think ADA chief will be a thick enough source to be considered for authentic view.

Now I do request the senior member to consider ajai shukla as a bit more authentic source, since this claim is proved right by the boeing officials word also.

 

[ersakthivel]

If 120 kn EPE is provided for tejass mk-2 it will have a TWR of 1.4, best in IAF (among single engined or twin engined fighters).
TWR calculations-THRUST/(empty weight+half capacity fuel in tank+ a couple of air to air missiles).
As this will be the configuration with which it will enter into close combat.
Supercruise is a sure possibilty and it's service ceiling and top speeds and sea level speeds all will be best in IAF.
If supercruise is achieved it's combat radius will increase dramatically, it's MTOW will also increase dramatically.

It's AOA ,STR ,ITR all will be significantly improve.

 

[ersakthivel]

Out of 200 "requests for action" --- which are suggestions from IAF pilots and technicians for design changes that would ease maintenance --- most have already been implemented in tejas MK-1. Just 12-15 remain for implementing in the Tejas Mark II.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Note the tails, EW installed..

 

[Godless-Kafir]

So this thing cant dog fight? How true is the statement? Still problems with AoA?

 

[rahulrds1]

information about LCA Flight Controls,Avionics,Data link, Optronics, IFF ,self defense,Communication and navigation...

Tejas Radiance
or
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/downloads/Tejas-Radiance.pdf