ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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nitesh

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On several occasion, IAF top officials said "We need minimum 39.5 squadron for 2 front conflict". As of now we have merely 30 squadron in which 17 are 40-50 year old MIG 21,27 and Jaguar. Even 6 squadron of MIG29 & MIRAGE are still need to be upgraded. So, We have maximum 13 squadron including 7 MKI. This is pathetic all time low. We never had so less quality squadron since 70's. Number should be double minimum. There is no logic of x+ or Y+, It should be 40 squadron in which minimum 3/4th as 4th generation and we are decade behind. Are we going to fight with these 13 squadron against 50 odd squadron ?? The planning might be good but it's very slow.
Here it goes again, nothing is there apart from MIKI. Rest all is piece of junk according to you. And enemy already have all 50 squadrons (1000 modern 4th generation planes). Well I don't know from where you are getting the numbers.


Unfortunately, Number is not increasing. In Last 15 years, Only 150 fighter jets inducted and 150 decommissioned and around 300 more to be decommissioned soon but still flying as no other option. We are still flying 300 MIG21,27 which should have been decommissioned a decade back. This is what you call planned ?? There is neither any increase nor any proper planning.

MMRCA is pending for last 6 years and another 6 years for 2 squadron.
Tejas is pending for last decade and another 6 years for 1st MK2.
MKI rate 12 per year. It should be around 20 as we need more quality fighter jets.
MIRAGE M2k upgradation in 10 years in 3+ bn $. In that price we could have bought 40 MIG29/MKI more.

IAF may have 15 year plan as usual, But too much of delay has made IAF strength weak as of now. It will take another decade to come as per sanctioned sq of 39.5 by IAF.
Again the same, you are assuming the numbers of enemy planes, and throwing the numbers.
 

Galaxy

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Here it goes again, nothing is there apart from MIKI. Rest all is piece of junk according to you. And enemy already have all 50 squadrons (1000 modern 4th generation planes). Well I don't know from where you are getting the numbers.
I think you are deliberately trying to divert from the point i mentioned. Please read again what i posted. We have maximum 13 squadron and that includes MIG 29 and MIRAGE too. I didn't mentioned only MKI. Are you considering 50 years old 300 MIG21,27 as competent enough to fight against enemies fighter jets like J-10,11,17, Su-27, Su-30 MKK, F-16, long range Bomber ?? all these are BVR capable missile. I hope you know the huge difference. MIg21,27 Already had 1,00's of crashes completed and consider as unreliable and dangerous.

Actually, Our enemies have 50 squadron quality jets. I wish, you should have checked before posting otherwise you wouldn't have said the same.


Again the same, you are assuming the numbers of enemy planes, and throwing the numbers.
Actually, you are saying the same thing one after another. You didn't even read what i said. Who is assuming the number ?? I am saying what is fact. Please research what our enemy has and what we have and what was our requirement as per previous 2 IAF chief.

IAF top official said multiple times that we need 39.5 squadron minimum for 2 front. We have only 13 squadron which can really fly, fight, reliable and can be effective against our opponent. Difference is 3 times. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to understand simple thing ?? As for enemy, They do have around 50 squadron of quality combat jets. We have pathetic low no. of quality jets and that is fact. Since, we don't have any other option. So, we are operating but that doesn't mean it's ok and everything is going fine. We have to accept it but can't say we are doing good which is completely wrong.
 
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dev.uitda

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If you have a source claiming the same it would be helpful.



Actually we are. We are buying 166 Russian version of PAKFA. This is as recent as October.

IAF to induct 214 fifth generation fighter jets - India News - IBNLive

This says we will enter design phase only after PDC completion. Design phase will go on for for another 18 months after which prototypes are built for testing which may take between 10 and 20 months. Testing will take 2 to 3 years IMO as majority of tests will be done on PAKFA. So, that's 2017 for first flight at best and 2020 for IOC.

According to ACM we will get first PAKFA in 2017. That's pretty much after Russia has a squadron strength in operation.

Anyway it is too early to say if FGFA will be lighter. So, we can agree to disagree on that.
Yo man :) Dont read much ibnlive, toi defense stuff. They honestly dont know the difference between Pakfa and FGFA. They still think we should have bought F35 as if its available tomorrow. I have read writeups of many avid defense analysts and found Prasun's to make most sense and he speculates as less as possible and writes with almost no bias.
Check out TRISHUL: Air-Sea Battle Concept Explained
Read his reply "To KSK" he explains the logic behind our twin seater design.
Check out TRISHUL: Air-Sea Battle Concept Explained
Read his reply "To [email protected]"
After this find and read the excerpt of Press Conference of former Air Chief where he says FGFA will be stealthy and lighter. According to previously mentioned time-frame design should be freezed by June 2012. So a technology demonstrator might take off by 2015 as per the papers (oops i said 2014 before), since all basic systems are already onboard PAKFA. Production standard aircraft will only emerge at the end of this decade or just after, owing to possible delays. If you read enough material and interviews, HAL staff (those who will be posted in Russia) are already being trained to read write and speak Russian. Why so? because we dont have a facility to measure RCS yet, so that for FGFA can only be done in Russia.
Lenta.ru: Оружие: Индия выбрала двигатели для истребителя FGFA
this gave the news that we have selected FGFA engines different from that of PAKFA. It also implied that we might have gone with 117S thats on Su35. Interestingly, the newly released Specifics on HAL website exactly matches that of 117S :) So this almost clears the engine part!

Now why am I so confident that what Prasun said (we are not buying PAKFAs but single seat FGFAs) is correct? If we just wanted FGFA to be two seat variant of PAKFA, the Sukhoi Corporation would have been more than happy to do it for us like it did it so easily for Su30MKI which was based on a single seat design (Su27). Note that almost every single seat aircraft flying today has a twin seat variant, it is pretty easy. But why are we troubling ourselves now? Because our aim is not that, it is to get first hand experience in design development integration and testing of an advanced fighter jet which is lighter and has scope for heavy engine upgrade later.

Read up the articles and lets discuss mroe in the future in FGFA dedicated thread and run away from here before we get beatings for taking out FGFA on Tejas.
 
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nitesh

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I think you are deliberately trying to divert from the point i mentioned. Please read again what i posted. We have maximum 13 squadron and that includes MIG 29 and MIRAGE too. I didn't mentioned only MKI. Are you considering 50 years old 300 MIG21,27 as competent enough to fight against enemies fighter jets like J-10,11,17, Su-27, Su-30 MKK, F-16, long range Bomber ?? all these are BVR capable missile. I hope you know the huge difference. MIg21,27 Already had 1,00's of crashes completed and consider as unreliable and dangerous.

Actually, Our enemies have 50 squadron quality jets. I wish, you should have checked before posting otherwise you wouldn't have said the same.
Please provide the operational 50 squadrons break up which are arrayed towards India. Please don't forget that these has to be fully capable modern jets. I am willing to learn. Don't take it offensively, if I am came across like that, I am sorry

Actually, you are saying the same thing one after another. You didn't even read what i said. Who is assuming the number ?? I am saying what is fact. Please research what our enemy has and what we have and what was our requirement as per previous 2 IAF chief.

IAF top official said multiple times that we need 39.5 squadron minimum for 2 front. We have only 13 squadron which can really fly, fight, reliable and can be effective against our opponent. Difference is 3 times. I don't know why it's so difficult for you to understand simple thing ?? As for enemy, They do have around 50 squadron of quality combat jets. We have pathetic low no. of quality jets and that is fact. Since, we don't have any other option. So, we are operating but that doesn't mean it's ok and everything is going fine. We have to accept it but can't say we are doing good which is completely wrong.
Actually IAf's assessment of 39.5 squadron is to be offensive on paki side and defensive on Chinese side, which I don't think is the right way to go, we need to have minimum of 50 squadrons to be offensive4 on both sides, which is not going to happen in short or medium term, in long term, let's hope for the best.

I am not even arguing that IAF is not short of numbers, as I said before too, IAF is losing the number of jets, but the build up is also happening. The Mk3 phase of MKI which is our standard now, came to loife in 2005 only, after that production started to gain momentum. If my memory serves me correct, HAL churned up 17 numbers each in 2009 and 2010 (correct me here if I am wrong). 40 numbers have already been ordered to Irkut, which are joining the numbers too, shortly. MLU is also coming up of MKI, if we just build up the numbers in current form, then we need to spend on them again on MLU, without them even getting any valuable operational life.
 

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Tejas LSP-7 to be flown in next month


November 27, 2011

The Light Combat Aircraft, 'Tejas' LSP-7 to be flown in the first fortnight of December will be in the final configuration of the fighter plane and "almost close" to series production, scheduled to begin by the middle of 2012.

Earlier, there was an update in each of the Limited Series Production (LSP) aircraft. LSP-7 will have all the functionalities and the aircraft has been earmarked for user evaluation by the Indian Air Force (IAF), P.S. Subramanyam, Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) and Programme Director (Combat Aircraft) told The Hindu here on Friday.

He was here to attend the 22 {+n} {+d} annual conference of Indian Nuclear Society- INSAC 2011.

He said so far 11 Tejas aircraft had performed 1,740 flights and crossed 1,000 flying hours. After the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC), the LCA was in the "intermediate milestone' stage — between IOC-2 and Final Operational Clearance (FOC). In the meantime, it had more achievements as some more weapons were being integrated and flying envelope expanded to a higher degree of angle of attack.

Weapon trials were successfully completed in Jaisalmer recently and were currently underway in Goa, where tests on functionality of the radar were also being conducted.

Mr. Subramanyam said the first naval variant of LCA would be test-flown before year-end and ground runs have already started. There was a lot of challenge with the landing gear for naval variant as it had to land on the short runways of an aircraft carrier as also take off from there. It had features of ski jump takeoff and arrested landing.

The preliminary design had been completed for the Mark-II variant of LCA for both Air Force and Navy. It would be more maintenance-friendly, its acceleration, climb rates would be faster, turn rates better with small take-off distances. It would be fitted with a high-powered GE 414 engine, which would be integrated on both Air Force and Naval variants.

On the plans to build fifth generation medium combat aircraft, Mr. Subramanyam said the feasibility studies would be completed by March 2012. It would be a low-observable stealth aircraft and have the capability to go deep into the enemy territory undetected by long-range radars. It would be equipped with advanced avionics and conformal weapons within the fuselage.

Since it was planned to have the first flight in seven years, certain concepts of the 6 {+t} {+h} generation combat aircraft would also be incorporated. It was likely to be 10 years for it to get into production for replacing MIG-29 and Mirage fighters.

Tejas LSP-7 to be flown in next month | idrw.org
 

plugwater

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Since it(AMCA) was planned to have the first flight in seven years, certain concepts of the 6 {+t} {+h} generation combat aircraft would also be incorporated. It was likely to be 10 years for it to get into production for replacing MIG-29 and Mirage fighters.
ROFLMAO!

First flight in 7 years and induction in 10 years. ADA fvckheads should STFU!
 

Galaxy

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Troubles Slow Tejas Again

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 29, 2011




The photo above, taken at the National Aerospace Laboratory's wind-tunnel, shows testing this year of a Tejas model with various stores configurations. With LCA Tejas final operational clearance slipping to 2014, and the programme still struggling to meet performance specs for the second phase of initial operational clearance (IOC-2), the aircraft project has dipped into another difficult phase. According to sources, several requirements (that were watered down during IOC-1 in January), are still to be met. The parameters include wake penetration certification, all weather clearance (ironically, tests were stalled because of the monsoon earlier this year) and lightning clearance. Earlier this month, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal NAK Browne said again that final operational clearance was delayed by a full year -- moving down to 2014. Meanwhile, the first prototype of the LCA-Navy is preparing for a first flight -- hopefully before New Year.


http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/11/troubles-slow-tejas-again.html?
 
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Poseidon

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India's first naval fighter to take to skies this month.

Press Trust of India, Updated: December 02, 2011 17:32 IST

Bangalore: Indian Navy would soon add the air element to its ranks with the first carrier-borne naval fighter aircraft "LCA Tejas"‹ (Navy)" all set to take its maiden flight this month, a top defence official said today.

"LCA (Navy) will be flown in the month of December.I think by the end of this month, it should fly", V K Saraswat, Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and Director General of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said.

According to DRDO officials the aircraft is currently going through a phase of refinements based on feedback and observations during the September EGR (Engine Ground Run) of the LCA Tejas (Navy) prototype NP1. This would be followed by a series of final integration checks and taxi trials before the first flight.

The officials said the aircraft will have a wide variety of operational weapons and equipment like beyond visual range missiles, anti-ship missiles, conventional bombs, air defence guns and drop tanks.

Equipped with state-of-the art technologies and punch, the aircraft is designed to operate from the future Indigenous aircraft carriers the Navy plans to acquire, they said.

The team steering the project comprises of members from the Indian Navy, Indian Air Force, HAL, DRDO, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), Directorate General of Aeronautical Quality Assurance (DGAQA), CSIR Labs, educational institutions along with other public and private sector partners.

Aeronautical Development Agency, a Bangalore-based DRDO lab, is responsible for the design, development, build, ground test and flight test of both the Naval and Air Force versions of the aircraft.

India's first naval fighter to take to skies this month
 

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Naval Light Combat Aircraft to fly by December end


Saturday, Dec 3, 2011

The much-awaited maiden flight of naval prototype of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA NP-1) or Tejas is expected to take place by the end of December in Bangalore.

Scientific advisor to the defence minister and Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) director general, VK Saraswat, on Friday said that the LCA NP-1—which will be the country's first indigenous effort to build a carrier-borne Naval flight aircraft—will take to the skies by December-end.

The aircraft will be test flown by a pilot from the National Flight Test Centre, which has been entrusted with overseeing the testing activity of the LCA programme for more than a decade.

The first flight of the LCA NP-1 has been delayed for quite some time now and the maiden flight would give the programme a much-needed fillip.

The LCA NP-1 is undergoing high-speed taxi trials at HAL airport and a team steering of the LCA (Navy) project comprising members of Indian Navy, Indian Air Force, HAL, DRDO, CEMILAC, DGAQA, and CSIR Labs are carrying out a series of final integration tests before the maiden flight.

It's stronger and better

The LCA NP-1 has incorporated several changes compared with its Air-Force counterpart with a new, stronger and longer landing gear, arrester hook for ship-deck landing, front fuselage drooped for better over-the-nose vision to facilitate ship landing, an additional control surface to reduce ship-landing speed and consequential changes in various systems.

The NP1 aircraft would be flying with the GE-F404-IN20 engine and is specifically designed for ski-jump take-off and arrested landing, with high-landing loads compared to its Air Force counterpart.

The Navy has placed an order for six LCA aircraft and is expected to replace the depleting Sea Harrier squadron and operate along the MiG-29K's by 2014.

Wide variety of equipment

Officials said the aircraft would be operating with a wide variety of operational weapons and high-tech equipment like the beyond-visual-range missiles, anti-ship missiles, conventional bombs, air defence guns and drop tanks.

Equipped with state-of-the art technologies and punch, the aircraft is designed to operate from the future indigenous aircraft carriers the Navy plans to acquire, they said.

Aeronautical Development Agency, the Bangalore-based DRDO lab, is responsible for the design, development, build, ground test and flight test of both the naval and air force versions.

Saraswat said that price negotiations for a joint venture with French firm Snecma, for co-development and co-production of Kaveri aero engine for LCA Tejas MK-II, is expected to be completed in a couple of months.

"Price negotiations with Snecma are in progress. They are not yet completed. It may take a couple of months," he said.

Officials said the IAF has cleared the Kaveri engine co-development proposal with Snecma.

The draft engine technical specification has been examined and cleared by the IAF, which has further suggested that the engine design should have minimal impact on the LCA Tejas airframe for future retrofitment.

With inputs from PTI

Naval Light Combat Aircraft to fly by December end - Bangalore - DNA
 

Soorya Dhanush

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[h=1]India's first Naval fighter LCA Tejas to take to skies this monthBANGALORE: India's first carrier-borne naval fighter aircraft "LCA Tejas (Navy)" will take to the skies for its maiden flight this month, a top defence official said today, adding that it will form the air element of the Indian Navy.
"LCA (Navy) will be flown in the month of December.I think by the end of this month, it should fly", V K Saraswat, Scientific Adviser to Defence Minister and Director General of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said.
[/h]
 

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Indian Light Combat Aircraft Slipping A Year

Dec 12, 2011 , By Asia-Pacific Staff

NEW DELHI — Fresh troubles are delaying India's indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft program, with final operational clearance slipping by over a year to December 2014.

Testing challenges and performance-parameter issues have delayed flight testing, operational envelope expansion and certification, leading to the Indian air force (IAF) reluctantly agreeing to a 12-month slip in declaration of the aircraft as fully operational. The IAF is viewing this as a setback to timely delivery of production series aircraft, though squadron service is still set to begin in mid-2013 in the initial operational configuration.

The seventh limited series production aircraft, a replica of the Tejas in its production series configuration and already delayed by over six months, is slated to make it first flight this month. Different versions of the aircraft are currently undergoing weapons and sensor tests at three air bases in the country. The program is designed to integrate and test beyond-visual-range weapons, rockets and guided bombs, expand the platform's flight envelope and improve turn rate.

A senior IAF officer says, "The parameters listed as untested during initial operational clearance in January 2011 — including all-weather clearance, lightning clearance and wake penetration — are yet to be proven on the Tejas. Certain other performance issues, including minimum/maximum g-limits and certain precision weapons tests, are to be demonstrated. The program has sought time beyond the deadline of June 2011."

IAF leaders, who had grudgingly accepted initial operating capability in January after ceding certain marked-down performance parameters, are not happy. A year-long delay in deployment of the Tejas means further pressure on squadron numbers. The Tejas was to be deployed in a refurbished air base at Sulur in South India by July 2013, though it is now likely to be the end of 2013.

An official with the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas program, says: "The IAF has agreed to a 12-month extension for final operational clearance, contingent on certain additional performance parameters. It is a minor delay that will be made up in tests. We have completed an important series of weapons tests both at day and night."

Preliminary design and configuration studies of the $542 million Tejas Mk. 2 effort, to build a variant powered by the General Electric F414 turbofan, have been completed. The more powerful aircraft is expected to see prototyping by 2013 and a first flight by 2014 — right about the time the Tejas Mk. 1 is declared fully operational.

The IAF has said it will induct at least 83 Mk. 2 versions of the Tejas if it meets performance requirements, including a smaller maintenance footprint, shorter takeoff and better turn rate.

First Flight

In a parallel development, the Stobar (short takeoff but arrested recovery) version of the Tejas, the LCA-Navy, has finally been declared ready for its first flight, following a delay of more than 18 months. Defense Research Development Organization chief V.K. Saraswat indicated that concerns over platform safety had been overcome and that the team was finally confident about entering the flight-test phase.

Persistent doubts about the platform's landing gear, recovery mechanism and approach control laws had pushed back flight tests. Following successful engine ground runs starting in September, then taxi trials, the program team is finally ready to put the jet into the air.

"There's a great deal of pressure," says a senior source on the LCA-Navy program. "This is India's first indigenous naval carrier-borne fighter. We hope to shift testing to Goa by the middle of 2012 and begin testing at the Indian navy's shore-based test facility for arrested recovery operations."

Both the air force and navy variants of the Tejas have depended on technical consultations from EADS to optimize systems and speed up flight test and certification.

Indian Light Combat Aircraft Slipping A Year | AVIATION WEEK
 

agentperry

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dont know when it wil be inducted but i think iaf has decided to reitr it by.... may be 2025.
hal and drdo is missing something which makes an aircraft hot fav for airforce. a decent crash.
crash it man. they like it, then only they will take it
 

nitesh

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what is " lightning clearance " and how it is tested ?
How does a plane behaves if lightening strikes it. the easiest way to do is let the plane fly in bad weather and hope that lightening strikes it :D

On a serious note, it is done by simulating a lightening strike over a plane in the ground.
 

p2prada

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Lightning tests are done on models and finished aircraft. No pilot is present in the models. :p







No harm in placing a pilot in an aircraft if it is well tested. There is no real point to it.
 

nitesh

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Worth full read:
Our Cinderella must step out : Manoj Joshi News - India Today

Till now, the ADA and HAL have built eight prototypes and six limited series aircraft and it has undertaken some 1800 takeoff and landing cycles without (touch wood) a single accident. Pilots swear by its ease of handling and maneuverability. However, according to reports, the true initial operational clearance (IOC) of the LCA has been delayed yet again. The IOC, which means the aircraft can be flown by any military pilot-not just test pilots- was technically available since January 2011, but there are a range of issues that have yet to be sorted out to the air force's satisfaction.
It is important to see the aircraft in comparison with the others that are flying, both as potential adversaries, as well as competitors for the export market. The aircraft under 10 tons of operational empty weight are the American F-16, the Chinese JF-17, the Swedish Gripen. Of these the LCA is the lightest at just 5.9 tons.

In part this is because of its use of carbon fibre composites. The US and the Chinese aircraft have a carbon composites content of near zero, while the more modern Gripen has 30 per cent content by weight. The LCA has 45 per cent, but as much as 90 per cent of the surface of the LCA is made of carbon fibres. This makes it light, strong and rugged, since the carbon fibre composites neither age nor corrode.
But its most important quality is that it does not reflect radar beams, unlike the metallic components of aircraft. In other words, this gives the LCA a naturally low radar signature or 'stealth' characteristics. Given its small size anyway, it is, in the words of a former fighter pilot, "virtually invisible" to adversary fighters.

The use of carbon fibre gives the LCA another advantage: with its low operational empty weight, and compared to an aircraft with similar engines, the LCA has greater thrust to weight ratio. The LCA Mk 2 is likely to have 1.53, compared to the other agile fighter, the F-16's 1.64. The Gripen has 1.44 and the JF-17 has 1.28. Indeed, the LCA's rate of acceleration compares favourably with heavy two-engined fighters like the Eurofighter, which has a thrust to weight ratio of 1.64.
Clearly, its natural stealth characteristics, low operating costs, maneuverability and its sensor and weapons suite make the LCA a real player in the global market. Indeed, according to an air force officer, the performance of the LCA as a fighter exceeds that of the Mirage 2000, even when the latter is upgraded.
Indeed, there is a wider market, too, if HAL is willing to dream big and do something about it. There is a market for some 3,000 fighters to replace the MiG-21s, F-5s, early model F-16s which will retire in the coming 10-15 years in countries of Eastern Europe, Asia-Pacific and elsewhere. Getting even ten per cent of that market would be a stunning achievement for India.

But to reach that goal, India needs to think big. HAL, is still making its current limited series aircraft by hand, as it were, and it has no experience in sales and marketing abroad. As it is, there will be a need to transform HAL's work culture to make a product to the highest world standards. Equally important would be product support, again an area in which the HAL has not done too well in the past.

But all this cannot be done by the HAL itself. The LCA programme was a national endeavour to lay the foundations for India's aerospace industry. If it is to meet that mandate- and it is on the threshold of doing that- it needs attention right now from the topmost levels of government and the Ministry of Defence.
 
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