ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[binayak95]

Su30 is also all metal frame. So are F16. F15, MiG29 etc. I would not pin point JF17 for that.

Also, the weapons store of BVR missile is not related to the plane. There is no reason to not use AIM 120C in JF17.

How do you know that JF17 FBW is poor?

Where do you get your info from, bhai?

Yes, the original avatars of these planes were all metal but not so much now.

The Su-30 MKI's by weight composite percentage is as high as 10%. The F-15SE has massive composite use (its called the Silent Eagle for a reason). Present gen F-15Ks and SAs also incorporate high amounts of composites.

The MiG29.. have you seen any MiG 29 post the M upgrade? The SMT, the UPG and the latest K all use significant amounts of composites in their body. See the grey bits?

It can use a AIM 120C or any other BVRAAM if it has a good enough radar. Which it doesn't. The PWR is horrible. Poor energy retention too. Bad Radar, bad sensors, no HMD, no IRST. No FBW. Need I go on?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Su30 is also all metal frame. So are F16. F15, MiG29 etc. I would not pin point JF17 for that.

In comparison to Aluminium, a carbon composite airframe reflects lesser radar energy. So when spoken comparatively, a Tejas would show on JF-17s MMR at a much closer distance than a JF-17 on Tejas MMR. Which will enable Tejas to fire first.

New generations fighter like Rafale, EF-2000 and Tejas uses composites.

Also, the weapons store of BVR missile is not related to the plane. There is no reason to not use AIM 120C in JF17.

sorry, i did not get this part.

How do you know that JF17 FBW is poor?

JF-17 has FBW in pitch axis only.

http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

 

[binayak95]

JF-17 has FBW in pitch axis only.

http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

They don't have a digital FBW at all. If they did, they wouldn't be desperately seeking Thales' avionics. A deal which fell through because France knew (back in 2013) that Pakis won't be able to pay up (and because of Indian pressure)

 

[captscooby81]

Apparently the Chinese are ready to share their KLJ-7A AESA Radar for the parki Junk Fighters sooner ..

 

[Kshithij]

Where do you get your info from, bhai?

Yes, the original avatars of these planes were all metal but not so much now.

The Su-30 MKI's by weight composite percentage is as high as 10%. The F-15SE has massive composite use (its called the Silent Eagle for a reason). Present gen F-15Ks and SAs also incorporate high amounts of composites.

The MiG29.. have you seen any MiG 29 post the M upgrade? The SMT, the UPG and the latest K all use significant amounts of composites in their body. See the grey bits?

It can use a AIM 120C or any other BVRAAM if it has a good enough radar. Which it doesn't. The PWR is horrible. Poor energy retention too. Bad Radar, bad sensors, no HMD, no IRST. No FBW. Need I go on?

Su30 is 6% composite by weight. That amounts to 10% composite by parts. F15SE is not even in prototyping. It is almost impossible to change the air frame without many other repercussions like change in weight, change in centre of gravity etc.

The JF17 is getting a new radar and that is said to be powerful. With the new radar, longer range BVR like AIM120 can be used.

I would not believe that JF17 has no FBW. Without FBW, it will become a manual plane. JF17 has FBW written in C language instead of ADA language. This makes the FBW inferior but nevertheless it exists

 

[binayak95]

Su30 is 6% composite by weight. That amounts to 10% composite by parts. F15SE is not even in prototyping. It is almost impossible to change the air frame without many other repercussions like change in weight, change in centre of gravity etc.

The JF17 is getting a new radar and that is said to be powerful. With the new radar, longer range BVR like AIM120 can be used.

I would not believe that JF17 has no FBW. Without FBW, it will become a manual plane. JF17 has FBW written in C language instead of ADA language. This makes the FBW inferior but nevertheless it exists

Did you just ignore the entirety of my point and @Rahul Singh's point? That the JF-17 is an all metal piece of junk.

AESA radar? The hell will they do with it? Blk III is supposed to get IRST, AESA radar, integral jamming pods, and yeah, even wing mounted L band radars (sarcasm). But what will you power it with? WS-10?!

 

[Suryavanshi]

No need to go full blown fanboyism Pakis are pinning there hope on JF 17, they won't leave any feature underwhelming. AESA is just the begining they will get every technology from chinaman to counter us as both countries have their interests in it.

 

[porky_kicker]

Su30 is 6% composite by weight. That amounts to 10% composite by parts. F15SE is not even in prototyping. It is almost impossible to change the air frame without many other repercussions like change in weight, change in centre of gravity etc.

The JF17 is getting a new radar and that is said to be powerful. With the new radar, longer range BVR like AIM120 can be used.

I would not believe that JF17 has no FBW. Without FBW, it will become a manual plane. JF17 has FBW written in C language instead of ADA language. This makes the FBW inferior but nevertheless it exists

And how are they going to integrate aim120 with klj7a radar ?

Do you think that's a joke, eg transfer targeting cues from a Chinese radar to a American bvraam.

Please review what you write atleast once

And no offence, please spend less time reading porky nonsense in peedf

 

[Enquirer]

I would not believe that JF17 has no FBW. Without FBW, it will become a manual plane. JF17 has FBW written in C language instead of ADA language. This makes the FBW inferior but nevertheless it exists

In the short time I've been reading this forum I must say that you post the most nonsensical stuff on the forum.

Couldn't you just look up official specs on JF17 before posting your speculations? The official specs themselves claim that JF17 has only a Single axis FBW (FYI...there're 3 axes).

JF17 is more-or-less a manual control plane!

 

[Suryavanshi]

Ah forgot one more thing JF 17 doesn't have fly by wire

 

[Rahul Singh]

No need to go full blown fanboyism Pakis are pinning there hope on JF 17, they won't leave any feature underwhelming. AESA is just the begining they will get every technology from chinaman to counter us as both countries have their interests in it.

That is why I mentioned Block 1 & 2 and not Block 3.

If they introduce full spectrum FBW with an advance FCS and at least same percentage of carbon composites then it will become competitive in BVR provided it also gets good MMR and long-range BVRAAMs. But so far the story is neither block 1 or block 2 has any of it. Astonishingly JF-17 block 1 & 2 does not even have HMDS. Which would be a major handicap in WVR engagement against Tejas.

Technologically JF-17 block 1 & 2 are not much different from the Mig-21bison.

For PAF the major challenge in upgrading block 1 & 2 to proposed block 3 would be money. And carbon composites do not come any cheap.

So I won't consider JF-17 to be any threat to Tejas Mk-1 long time in future. Let alone to MK-1A.

I would not believe that JF17 has no FBW. Without FBW, it will become a manual plane. JF17 has FBW written in C language instead of ADA language. This makes the FBW inferior but nevertheless it exists

As official as it gets. No FBW beyond pitch control.
http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17

The JF17 is getting a new radar and that is said to be powerful. With the new radar, longer range BVR like AIM120 can be used.

Impossible case. A marriage of Chinese sensor with Armeican mainstay BVRAAM is impossible.Nevertheless, PAF does not have codes for Aim-120. Furthermore, PAF can't even integrate Erieye with their JF-17s. JF-17 can only interact with KJ-200. That's why they bought it.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Let's do a friendly Air exercise with Myanmmar to tets the capability of JF 17

 

[Rahul Singh]

Let's do a friendly Air exercise with Myanmmar to tets the capability of JF 17

Be assured RAW already has the data. Maybe upon RAW's insistence, Burmese bought it in the first place.

 

[Rahul Singh]

Since we have discussed so much of Tejas vs JF-17. So few more comparisons.

Tejas......................................................................................................JF-17

Empty weight: ~6500 kg.........................................................................Empty weight: 6577 kg

Fuel load: 2458 kg..................................................................................Fuel load: 2329 kg

Loaded weight: < 8900kg........................................................................Loaded weight: < 8900 kg

MTOW: 13500 kg....................................................................................MTOW: 12383 kg

Payload: < 3500 kg at MTOW.................................................................Payload: > 3300 kg at MTOW

Need i mention which one is better?

Source

Tejas : Link

JF-17: Link

 

[Kshithij]

Did you just ignore the entirety of my point and @Rahul Singh's point? That the JF-17 is an all metal piece of junk.

AESA radar? The hell will they do with it? Blk III is supposed to get IRST, AESA radar, integral jamming pods, and yeah, even wing mounted L band radars (sarcasm). But what will you power it with? WS-10?!

Ws13 or RD33 is the negine. The same engine powers MiG29 of India. India also makes RD33 engine in HAL. It is a good engine.

After reading other replies, it appears that JF17 is a junk.

And how are they going to integrate aim120 with klj7a radar ?

Do you think that's a joke, eg transfer targeting cues from a Chinese radar to a American bvraam.

Please review what you write atleast once

And no offence, please spend less time reading porky nonsense in peedf

I must admit, it was in pdf that I read about AIM120C being fitted onto JF17.

That is why I mentioned Block 1 & 2 and not Block 3.

If they introduce full spectrum FBW with an advance FCS and at least same percentage of carbon composites then it will become competitive in BVR provided it also gets good MMR and long-range BVRAAMs. But so far the story is neither block 1 or block 2 has any of it. Astonishingly JF-17 block 1 & 2 does not even have HMDS. Which would be a major handicap in WVR engagement against Tejas.

Technologically JF-17 block 1 & 2 are not much different from the Mig-21bison.

For PAF the major challenge in upgrading block 1 & 2 to proposed block 3 would be money. And carbon composites do not come any cheap.

So I won't consider JF-17 to be any threat to Tejas Mk-1 long time in future. Let alone to MK-1A.



As official as it gets. No FBW beyond pitch control.
http://www.pac.org.pk/jf-17



Impossible case. A marriage of Chinese sensor with Armeican mainstay BVRAAM is impossible.Nevertheless, PAF does not have codes for Aim-120. Furthermore, PAF can't even integrate Erieye with their JF-17s. JF-17 can only interact with KJ-200. That's why they bought it.

Thanks for the official source. My source was PDF and there people were abusing MiG21 and saying that JF17 has FBW. Here is the source I quoted from:
http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/dubai-airshow-pakistan-jf-17-returns-to-dubai.html

 

[Rahul Singh]

Thanks for the official source. My source was PDF and there people were abusing MiG21 and saying that JF17 has FBW. Here is the source I quoted from:
http://www.arabianaerospace.aero/dubai-airshow-pakistan-jf-17-returns-to-dubai.html

Once on PDF they actually said that Pakistanis designed JF-17 on their own and Chinese only tested it because of better testing facilities there. When I asked, how you did design it without Wind tunnel testing? The answer was we have a secret way....we are hard working people.

Mix a monkey with a wolf and trust it but not Pakistanis. They are biggest A-holes earth has ever had.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Once on PDF they actually said that Pakistanis designed JF-17 on their own and Chinese only tested it because of better testing facilities there. When I asked, how you did design it without Wind tunnel testing? The answer was we have a secret way....we are hard working people.

Mix a monkey with a wolf and trust it but not Pakistanis. They are biggest A-holes earth has ever had.

Hindogs can't into dijin physics

 

[Enquirer]

Ws13 or RD33 is the negine. The same engine powers MiG29 of India. India also makes RD33 engine in HAL. It is a good engine.

Those are the old Mig-29s. The latest Mig-29s (in the naval form Mig-29k) have the latest RD-33K engines which have full FADEC.
Jf-17 despite being a new aircraft has the very old non-FADEC RD-33 engines

 

[indiatester]

Since we have discussed so much of Tejas vs JF-17. So few more comparisons.

Tejas......................................................................................................JF-17

Empty weight: ~6500 kg.........................................................................Empty weight: 6577 kg

Fuel load: 2458 kg..................................................................................Fuel load: 2329 kg

Loaded weight: < 8900kg........................................................................Loaded weight: < 8900 kg

MTOW: 13500 kg....................................................................................MTOW: 12383 kg

Payload: < 3500 kg at MTOW.................................................................Payload: > 3300 kg at MTOW

Need i mention which one is better?

Source

Tejas : Link

JF-17: Link

What about the tactics used?
There is strength in numbers. Will PAF use JF-17 in air defence role or used in a strike formation?
Is Tejas going to be used as a strike aircraft at all even if we hit the number PAF has? Is it even realistic for us to think that Tejas will faceoff with JF-17, may be a Su-30 on a strike role might be intercepted by JF-17.

Coming to JF-17 as a close relative of Mig-21, did our IAF put Tejas and Mig-21 against each other and check?

Sorry, too many doubts

 

[patriots]

jf17 is their second line of defense after f16 ...as we have mig29 after su30....
so paki s can use jf17 in any role ...as they don't have different fighters as. we have different fighters. with dedicated role