ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[pppppppp]

What is the data bus planned for LCA II / MCA ? Is that going to be IDB 1394(optical) based? As far as I understand Raptor uses it currently.

 

[luckyy]

what does SH has to do on LCA thread..

 

[F-14]

ntopic: :big_boss:

 

[Singh]

Members this is a thread to discuss lca. Thank you.

 

[p2prada]

Woopsie...

What is the data bus planned for LCA II / MCA ? Is that going to be IDB 1394(optical) based? As far as I understand Raptor uses it currently.

No idea. Its too early for such conclusions. Also its not IDB 1394, its IEEE-1394b.

This is being used on the F-22, F-35 and NASA's space shuttle(maintenance).

 

[pppppppp]

Do we have the technology of manufacturing optical based chips? These are available out in the market now. But nothing is made in India. Everything is either made in Taiwan, Singapore, Germany or in US. I understand that the defense guys are vacating the 3G spectrum and shifting to optical communication. So it would be better to shift to optical communication in every machine, so that we make everything uniform and high data rate. That is the reason I was thinking it would be better to make data bus optical based. The bandwidth is very essential in network centric warfare.

 

[p2prada]

Do we have the technology of manufacturing optical based chips? These are available out in the market now. But nothing is made in India. Everything is either made in Taiwan, Singapore, Germany or in US. I understand that the defense guys are vacating the 3G spectrum and shifting to optical communication. So it would be better to shift to optical communication in every machine, so that we make everything uniform and high data rate. That is the reason I was thinking it would be better to make data bus optical based. The bandwidth is very essential in network centric warfare.

Well, everything is done according to requirements. No military wants a technology that cannot be maintained.

 

[pppppppp]

Well, everything is done according to requirements. No military wants a technology that cannot be maintained.

That's not clear to me. Requirements form a part of the decision. But not everything. Specific data bus is chosen which can be scaled up to the future requirements.

 

[p2prada]

That's not clear to me. Requirements form a part of the decision. But not everything. Specific data bus is chosen which can be scaled up to the future requirements.

Using an entirely new data bus would mean development of new maintenance kits, new rules, new priorities and more funds and training. US can absorb such expenses. Indian can't, especially considering the fighters like LCA are not going to be inducted in large numbers. New data bus would mean redesigning already existing equipment, this would increase costs and will definitely lead to more Time Delays.

Expect something new in the FGFA and MCA though. But, not the LCA2.

As of now, for whats available in the market and in DRDO's labs the existing data bus suits our requirements. You cant integrate the Israeli 2052 AESA on the IEEE 1394b bus.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Its a full fledged processor that came out in 1985. Its not a video card.

8086, 80X86 Family.
Then came Celeron and Pentium.

If u find out u will realise that 80X86 have a flop rate of 50 MHz per second. An sofisticated aircraft can't run on such low end processor. In 1986 it may be ok but in 2009 it is not proper. The fact is even to launch a BVR, for Fly by Wire lays large ammount of calculation are needed. My point is with such an outdated processor the plane can't fly properly.
The production of the processor was stopped in 2007.
So which processor do we currently use?
I would love to see a Indian designed processor.
:113:

 

[John]

i think the 1000lbs bomb it dropped was the following

Ordnance Factory Board

i wonder is has dropped the HSLD yet

Ordnance Factory Board

New Page 2

Ordnance Factory Board

wonder when its going to drop LGBs

 

[p2prada]

If u find out u will realise that 80X86 have a flop rate of 50 MHz per second. An sofisticated aircraft can't run on such low end processor. In 1986 it may be ok but in 2009 it is not proper. The fact is even to launch a BVR, for Fly by Wire lays large ammount of calculation are needed. My point is with such an outdated processor the plane can't fly properly.
The production of the processor was stopped in 2007.
So which processor do we currently use?
I would love to see a Indian designed processor.
:113:

Nope. You have it wrong. For the current LCA it more than enough.

High powered processing is required for very powerful Jamming suites and AESA.

80386 is what we are using right now for the mission computer. Both on LCA and MKI.

Other than that, the MKI will carry a display processor and 2 radar computers. So, no problems. We have taken care of processing by installing more computers for specific functions. Radar computers for LCA is still not clear, but once ready they will be installed too.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

80386s production has been terminated. Normal Windows XP won't run on such a slow speed and every computer requires one. I just wish to say at such a slow processing speed u can't operate with glass cockpit, fly by wire, navigation,etc. As far as i remembered(read it on net) that DRDO had created a microprocessor with a flop rate of 25 GHz per second for Chandrayan mission. If the such processor was developed can't that be used.
Can someone conform if any such processor was developed.

 

[p2prada]

80386s production has been terminated. Normal Windows XP won't run on such a slow speed and every computer requires one. I just wish to say at such a slow processing speed u can't operate with glass cockpit, fly by wire, navigation,etc. As far as i remembered(read it on net) that DRDO had created a microprocessor with a flop rate of 25 GHz per second for Chandrayan mission. If the such processor was developed can't that be used.
Can someone conform if any such processor was developed.

We don't use Windows on our planes. Secondly, you have no idea on Assembly language. I have worked on it since the last 2 years.

Assembly language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It can very well handle FBW and navigation. 2 cores are used for this.

Lastly, yes the 80X86 has run out of production. All 80386 processors and later models are 32 bit processors. So, if you have another name in mind, do tell. Even ADA lists their mission computer to be a 32 bit mission computer with 2 cores.

 

[pppppppp]

I would love to see a high end processor like cell getting used, It gives performance of around 1Gflops. Especially if it is used in 22nm manufacturing, it is the best so far. Sony PSP3 uses the same one..

 

[nitesh]

AneCom AeroTest GmbH - Folgeauftrag Indien - Entwicklungspartner für Flugzeugtriebwerke und Gasturbinen

Following the successful first test of the compressor component in autumn 2008 AneCom AeroTest received the follow-up order for the enhanced compressor. The replacement activities of the test rig already started and the follow-up test will be executed end 2009. That order confirms the previous trustful and efficient collaboration and deepened the indo-german business relations.

 

[Sridhar]

Nitesh here is the English link

Compressor test build 2 for Indian Aero Engine
LCA Twin 3
LCA in which the compressor will be used
2nd compressortest for Indian Aero Engine

Following the successful first test of the compressor component in autumn 2008 AneCom AeroTest received the follow-up order for the enhanced compressor. The replacement activities of the test rig already started and the follow-up test will be executed end 2009.

That order confirms the previous trustful and efficient collaboration and deepened the indo-german business relations.

AneCom AeroTest GmbH - Follow-up order India

 

[Sridhar]

Latest on LCA from AI 2009 - all info from test pilots, developers themselves.

IAF will procure 40 LCA MK1 with GE404 IN20, including 8 LSP, 20 MK1 and 12 trainers
IAF will procure 100 (at least) LCA MK2, with new engines. Competition between EJ 200 and GE414. EJ200 is seen as newer tech.
Kaveri has met original design goals but is behind revised spec for LCA Mk2.
LCA Mk2, empty weight 6.5T, MTOW 13.5T

Current LCA range more than predicted- why? LCA aerodynamics are better than expected and GE engine is extremely fuel efficient.

Even so, more drag reduction etc will be looked at as a more powerful engine is being procured for LCA Mk2.

Current LCA has hybrid radar - Indian hardware, antenna, transmitter etc with ELTA software. Tracking of > 100 km against small targets, proven in testing.

To speed up Mk2 development EADS has been tapped for consultancy. ADA/IAF state that the current flight testing regime can be sped up drastically as an external test agency can audit the flight test points required, and eliminate the unnecessary ones. This replaces the agreement with BAe which was used earlier, but which BAe dropped out of, because they were too busy with the EF program and had manpower constraints.

Boeing was the first choice, but the issues of ITAR etc made them lose the bid.


LCA Mk1 has already transitioned to a completely open architecture system - took 3 years to develop, after IAF asked for it. The current OAC replaces an earlier proprietary federated system which ran on (then) intel 960 type chips. Current OAC replaces dual MC, dual display processors and a display map generator with a single OAC, and another (backup) on hot standby. Uses PowerPC chips - 3 versions (h/w) developed, but s/w more or less remained the same.

LCA Mk1 also has a redesigned wing structure to accomodate heavier missiles, asked for by the IAF in 2003-4.

Stores Management system is of the latest type can handle western, eastern and indian weapons, uses the 1760 standard and discrete pylon interface boxes for maximum flexibility.

In terms of handling and FBW, has won IAF confidence for flight envelope and IAF now feels ADA should directly jump to LCA Mk2 using most of the core technologies of the LCA Mk1, and begin the MCA program as well.

Other features:
- New AESA radar (codevelopment between LRDE India and either ELTA or EADS/SELEX)
- CIP (common integrated processor eg see JSF/F-22 architecture, replacing current Open Avionics Computer)
- All internal RWJ suite - radar warning jammer, with DRFM, digital receiver and able to handle multiple threats (A2A, A2G)
RWJ system also to be fielded on MiG-27 Upg and MiG-29 Upg. Currently being fitted out to the MiG-27 for trials already.

LCA Mk2 to be developed by 2012.

Apart from the above, is the airframe integration etc of the new engine which will also be covered in the same timeframe.

All in all good times for the LCA program, all LCA TP and IAF crew familiar with the program very upbeat about the aircraft and state that ADA has incorporated changes they asked for.

ACIG Forum :: Log in

 

[p2prada]

@Dark Sorrow

LCA Mk1 has already transitioned to a completely open architecture system - took 3 years to develop, after IAF asked for it. The current OAC replaces an earlier proprietary federated system which ran on (then) intel 960 type chips. Current OAC replaces dual MC, dual display processors and a display map generator with a single OAC, and another (backup) on hot standby. Uses PowerPC chips - 3 versions (h/w) developed, but s/w more or less remained the same.

Expect CIP now, based on IBM's PowerPC. I guess that will make you happy.

 

[luckyy]

final prototype vehicle PV-5 will soon take to the skies

The Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme has achieved another significant breakthrough as its final prototype vehicle PV-5 will soon take to the skies. The PV-5, one of the five prototype vehicles developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency is ready with the Engine Ground Run currently being carried on.


Defence Research and Development Organisation sources told Express that the Engine Ground Run for the PV-5, a two-seat trainer prototype is currently being carried out, before it can be certified to fly.

“The Engine Ground Run precedes the low-speed taxi trial and the high speed taxi-trials, following which the first flight of the aircraft will take place,” said sources. “Once the weather improves the taxi trial will be carried and so will the first flight of the PV-5,” sources added.

Unlike the other four prototypes (PV-1, PV-2,PV-3,PV-4) and the two technology demonstrator (TD-1 and TD-2) aircraft, the PV-5 apart from being a two-seat trainer version of the LCA will be identical to the fighter.

It will be fully combat capable and could be used in that role.

The LCA has completed 1,141 Test Flights successfully as on June 25.

ADA, the technology development agency for the indigenous LCA programme, hopes to get the Initial Operational Clearance before being inducted in the IAF by 2010. IAF plans to have seven LCA squadrons.

LCA?s final prototype to take off soon