ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sancho

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,831
Likes
1,035
I hope you are right. I just don't want AMCA to get any bad press like the Tejas. I don't want a Tejas style Mk1, Mk1A, Mk2 progression.
The bad press shouldn't be the concern of any Indian, the lack of capability and the development delays on the other side are the problem. To avoid the same in any future fighter project, we need to learn from the mistakes of the Tejas programme!

1) Don't give ADA (the designer) the overall project management of the programme, but divert it to the production agency (HAL or a privat sector company).
ADA has proven to be overburdened with fighter design alone and have neither the necessary experience or knowledge to lead such programmes.

2) Don't give DRDO any rights to interfere in the programme, with claims that they can deliver technologies. Let them prove that they can independently and integrate the indigenous technology, whenever it's ready and certified, without being dependent on it.

3) Put a penalty on the Indian production agency, to hold them accountable for delays caused by their mistakes, just as foreign OEMs are.

4) Get foreign joint development partners from the start and not only to fix the mess, that already was created.

5) Get the forces into the project management and design teams, to keep them involved and committed throughout the programme.

BTW, will we have separate teams working on Tejas Mk2 and AMCA? I imagine we would, but some confirmation will be good.
We have to, since there is no commonality between both projects, other than minor subsystems.
The priority for MK2 is the integration of the new engine (which won't be powerful enough for AMCA), the aerodynamic fixes (of a non stealth design) and the integration of as much modern EW and avionics as possible into the airframe (while AMCA airframe will be designed from scratch "hopefully" with more common sense and future upgradability in mind).

Only DRDO can work on both with common systems in mind, since Uttam AESA, avionics and EW parts could be similar.
 

Adioz

शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
1,419
Likes
2,819
Don't give DRDO any rights to interfere in the programme, with claims that they can deliver technologies. Let them prove that they can independently and integrate the indigenous technology, whenever it's ready and certified, without being dependent on it.
I understand your current frustration with DRDO.
But if DRDO does not deliver, who will? Nobody else has that kind of capability in India. Are we to source stuff from foreign OEMs? I do agree that in certain components like engines, that is exactly what we must do. But in other components like RAM, no foreign OEM is going to give us that technology. And even in the engines, those are not going to be supercruise-ready as long as they are bought from a foreign player.

I think its better to incentivise speedier creation of core technologies domestically. One way I can think of is competition between different R&D hubs and educational institutes. Our current system is not enough to realise our full technological potential. We need a better system, and this is an opportunity to do so.

Foreign collaboration will not get us the core technologies. Instead, we should use them for consultation.

Its not just the AMCA project. All future defence R&D projects depend upon us being able to unleash our full potential with as little assistance and reliance on foreign players as possible. We need to come up with a robust way to manage innovation with timelines. This will help in all future projects.

You rightly said that we need to apply the lessons learnt. At the same time, we need to learn new lessons. All this needs to happen in a way that the system of tech creation and assimilation in design and production can be a model for all future such projects where we do not have to rely on foreign players. That is what we must strive towards.

Easier said than done though. We need to revamp the entire educational system for research to take off on a large scale.
 

Kyubi

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2013
Messages
486
Likes
512
Country flag
The 1st one is the most difficult. Even in the production lines SP5 is a proof of that.
Regarding separate teams; yes there are(the work is in progress, they are waiting for funds for wind tunnel testing of full-scale model)
I dont think we have a wind tunnel to test a full scale model.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

soikot banerjee

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
195
Likes
787
Country flag
I hope you are right. I just don't want AMCA to get any bad press like the Tejas. I don't want a Tejas style Mk1, Mk1A, Mk2 progression. I don't care if the first flight comes by 2025-27 as long as they can justify that further development of a plane meeting air force GSQR is not going to require an AMCA Mk2 and a few more years of development.

But I still am not convinced that we will see first flight before 2025. The tech in 5th generation planes is no joke.


BTW, will we have separate teams working on Tejas Mk2 and AMCA? I imagine we would, but some confirmation will be good.
That's why we don't hear $hit about AMCA and the so called Raksha Visheshagya(Defense Expert) consider it is dead. It was a blunder for DRDO to make developement of LCA public and they seem to be in no mood to repeat that again.
 
Last edited:

soikot banerjee

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
195
Likes
787
Country flag
I dont think we have a wind tunnel to test a full scale model.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
NO body tests a full scale a modern aircraft model in wind tunnel it is always on field. Most of them are run on powerful software packages on supercomputers one of them being STAR CCM+. Most full scale models are for automotives and not aircrafts, they are 90% of time scalled models. RCS tests are done on full scale models
 

Pandeyji

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
571
Likes
1,137
Country flag
I mentioned Aerodynamic testing of full scale model like what you find at NASA Ames research Centre , National full scale aerodynamics complex (NFAC), it is 40×80 ft . Currently we donot have anything of such magnitude

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
My mistake. Didn't properly read your post
 

Sancho

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,831
Likes
1,035
I understand your current frustration with DRDO.
But if DRDO does not deliver, who will? Nobody else has that kind of capability in India. Are we to source stuff from foreign OEMs?
Trust me, I am following Indian defence matters for too long, to still be frustrated by DRDO. I just see it as it is:

http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news/12482-drdo-has-much-answer-its-poor-performance

In this case however, we have to keep the larger picture in mind! It is more important for the nation to have a successful indigenous fighter programme, than to develop every nut and bolt in India itself. LCA MK1A will be perfectly fine with a US engine, Israeli AESA and Swedish EW, because these subsystems doesn't change the fact that Tejas is an indigenous fighter.
Of course it's better if we can add more indigenous systems at some point, but we can't afford to delay the overall programme anymore, just for pride and claims of delivery of comparable indigenous subsystems by DRDO.
As I said, let them develop independently and if they actually have something ready and according to the minimum requirements of the forces, we should integrate it for sure, but before that, they should not play any role in these kind of important programmes and the decision making process!

Foreign collaboration will not get us the core technologies. Instead, we should use them for consultation.
Without foreign collaboration, we wouldn't have the best supersonic cruise missile available so far, nor the best MR/LR SAM. Just as most of DRDOs "indigenous" developments are JVs with Israeli companies or using Russian and French seeker technology too.
So there should be no doubt that co-development is the key for us, to get the high level techs and systems. But we should be able to develop the low level stuff on our own! FGFA / LCA, Barak 8 / Akash.
Also, if we had gone for co-developments for LCA design, radar, engine, or weapons, from the beginning, we wouldn't have to hire consultancy companies, to fix the issues afterwards. We still need help for the basics and can't afford to look at core techs only.

You rightly said that we need to apply the lessons learnt. At the same time, we need to learn new lessons.


You can't run, before you learn to walk.

Without mastering basic aircraft / fighter design, there is no way we can develop a stealth design, that still offers the needed aerodynamic performance. All our aircraft designs suffer from drag and weight issues, so how do we design a stealth aircraft without partners? We needed help for the test stage of LCA and sent AMCA models abroad to test it's design, how do we we develop and test a full size stealth airframe without help?
MMRCA and FGFA were the best chances to form partnerships and gain the necessary know how and experience, but we missed both so far. That's why it's even more important, to not do the same mistakes as in the LCA programme again and take foreign partners in the programme from the start.
 

Adioz

शक्तिः दुर्दम्येच्छाशक्त्याः आगच्छति
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2015
Messages
1,419
Likes
2,819
Trust me, I am following Indian defence matters for too long, to still be frustrated by DRDO. I just see it as it is:

http://www.sundayguardianlive.com/news/12482-drdo-has-much-answer-its-poor-performance

In this case however, we have to keep the larger picture in mind! It is more important for the nation to have a successful indigenous fighter programme, than to develop every nut and bolt in India itself. LCA MK1A will be perfectly fine with a US engine, Israeli AESA and Swedish EW, because these subsystems doesn't change the fact that Tejas is an indigenous fighter.
Of course it's better if we can add more indigenous systems at some point, but we can't afford to delay the overall programme anymore, just for pride and claims of delivery of comparable indigenous subsystems by DRDO.
As I said, let them develop independently and if they actually have something ready and according to the minimum requirements of the forces, we should integrate it for sure, but before that, they should not play any role in these kind of important programmes and the decision making process!



Without foreign collaboration, we wouldn't have the best supersonic cruise missile available so far, nor the best MR/LR SAM. Just as most of DRDOs "indigenous" developments are JVs with Israeli companies or using Russian and French seeker technology too.
So there should be no doubt that co-development is the key for us, to get the high level techs and systems. But we should be able to develop the low level stuff on our own! FGFA / LCA, Barak 8 / Akash.
Also, if we had gone for co-developments for LCA design, radar, engine, or weapons, from the beginning, we wouldn't have to hire consultancy companies, to fix the issues afterwards. We still need help for the basics and can't afford to look at core techs only.



You can't run, before you learn to walk.

Without mastering basic aircraft / fighter design, there is no way we can develop a stealth design, that still offers the needed aerodynamic performance. All our aircraft designs suffer from drag and weight issues, so how do we design a stealth aircraft without partners? We needed help for the test stage of LCA and sent AMCA models abroad to test it's design, how do we we develop and test a full size stealth airframe without help?
MMRCA and FGFA were the best chances to form partnerships and gain the necessary know how and experience, but we missed both so far. That's why it's even more important, to not do the same mistakes as in the LCA programme again and take foreign partners in the programme from the start.
Lets get a few things straight. The problem with DRDO is not talent. The problems with DRDO are:-
  • Woefully inadequate user-developer interaction mechanism
    • Lack of support from user
    • Poor understanding of military requirements and military problems
    • Frequently changing and sometimes unrealistic requirements
  • Lack of consistent support from government
  • Suboptimal work culture
    • Job security
    • Office politics (can be decreased, but never eliminated)
    • Lack of meritocracy
    • Quota/ Reservations
  • Lack of good management (Scientists are not managers)
    • Tendency to overestimate own capabilities (Stems from the problem stated above)
    • Delays in projects (Stems, in part, from the problem stated above)

Now that we have talked about the problems of DRDO, let us talk about the other half of the story (the mention of which I never find in any of your replies): The problems with the Indian Air Force.

Question 1: Arrange the following in increasing order of indigenously sourced content: Indian Army, Indian Air Force, Indian Navy.
Indian Air Force < Indian Army < Indian Navy
Question 2: Why can Indian Navy design and build its own ships with significant number of systems sourced from within India?
Because they have their own Naval Design Bureau and have developed an effective MIC
Question 3: Which is the only service which does not have its own design bureau?
Indian Air Force (Indian Army recently learnt the lesson and opened its design bureau)
Question 4: What happened to Indian Aircraft Industry after HAL Marut?
It was butchered mercilessly in order to favour imports.

The IAF is, like other institutions of this country, far from perfect. People are afraid to lift the veil and take a long hard look at the Armed Forces because they feel that doing so will lower the morale of the soldier. That is partly true. But this means that the government should quietly keep repairing the broken parts of our military behind the veil without throwing every damn thing up for debate to a clueless public that only pays lip service to the military and in actuality takes the Armed Forces for granted. But the politicians are the crookedest of them all. And so we blame who we can blame. And who can we blame? The DRDO. Because a 12 year old can spot that if the weapons are not ready on time, it’s the fault of the people who design the weapons. Right?

Now coming to your point about making AMCA by cherry picking the best from all the different countries eagerly offering us their products, yes we might get a top notch 5th generation fighter that meets all GSQRs and is the envy of our neighbours. Yes this is the fastest way to make AMCA program a success. This is undoubtedly what is best for the program. But is that really what is best for the country?

What we end up doing is incentivising the Air Force’s poor behaviour and poor commitment to indigenous wares. (Maybe poor is a little harsh, so let us call it sub-optimal commitment). We end up not solving our real problem: the faults that lie in our systems. The faults that we will have to correct at some point in time. The faults that we can correct now.

I never said that we make AMCA ourselves from the ground up. We will need few critical components from abroad. But if we end up taking everything from a foreign merchant, with the kind of system we have, we are going to lose the pressure of project completion, and then, once AMCA is inducted, it will take forever for DRDO to come up with indigenous replacements.

We do have successful JVs. But can we make the Barak-8 completely on our own? In some things, consultancy works better (I mean consultancy while designing, not for solving the problems that develop later on due to not consulting earlier). And I believe that for the aerodynamics part, we will need minimal assistance, if at all. The drag issues of Tejas arose due to IAF’s ever-changing GSQRs. We are adept at aircraft design. For aircraft skin, RAM, etc. We might require consultancy. For avionics, we need foreign wares, but only in some cases, and mostly as stop-gap. In engines, we undoubtedly need a JV, and a foreign engine initially.

And yes you can fall for the argument that national security is at stake and the IAF needs AMCA yesterday. But we need only open our eyes to see that AMCA will not be the winning factor in an Air Campaign. There is a lot we can do to unleash our latent potential. Once the Air Force has done that, maybe then it would be in a place to be demanding the best fighter aircraft on Earth. Until then, it can make do with something that is in the same class, even if its not the best.
 

Sancho

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2011
Messages
1,831
Likes
1,035
The IAF is, like other institutions of this country, far from perfect. People are afraid to lift the veil and take a long hard look at the Armed Forces because they feel that doing so will lower the morale of the soldier.
No not at all, it's exactly the other way around! IAF and politicians get constantly blamed by the public for everything that went wrong in the LCA programme. Either it's lack of support and funding, too low orders or too high requirements..., all to hide any accountability for development failures or mistakes of the scientists.
Just look at the hysteria a few months ago, when IAF explained the government, that Tejas is not good enough "to take over the medium class requirement" and that they need "both", Tejas and SE MMRCAs to defend the country. The media took it out of context and everyone was jumping on IAF, to allegedly prefer foreign fighters over Tejas, although that wasn't what they stated at all.
You can also take the criticisms on the low MK1 orders and insisting on MK2 as an example, where IAF was blamed for development failures of our scientists, that caused overweight, drag issues and not meeting the ASR.
Not to mention the criticism of IN, for not buying NLCA, although it's not available anytime soon and by far not capable enough for carrier operations.

When it comes to indigenous developments, we always protect scientists and that also leads to lack of accountability and inefficient developments.

This also leads to the myths that IN is supporting indigenous developments more than IAF. But that's based on the misconception that INs part in the design stage is the key, while the real advantage we have in the naval field is, that we have far more and more capable government owned and privat ship yards. That gives IN a far better industrial base for naval developments, than IAF for aircrafts, because the Indian aviation industry is only HAL, ADA and to an extent Tata so far. There are no other options and the once we have, are premature in most fields. That's also the reason why IN is criticising ADA, HAL and DRDO for the same false promises on NLCA, delays and mistakes, as IAF does on LCA, or why IN is not buying a single new indigenous aircraft (other than more naval Dhruv) in the coming years, because our aviation industry and scientists can't provide what they need!

Btw I didn't left out the forces in my suggestions to learn:

5) Get the forces into the project management and design teams, to keep them involved and committed throughout the programme.

Because I agree that we need the forces to be a proper part of the projects and included in the design and decision making as well, because setting up base requirementsand waiting what the industry delivers is not enough.

Now coming to your point about making AMCA by cherry picking the best from all the different countries eagerly offering us their products, yes we might get a top notch 5th generation fighter that meets all GSQRs and is the envy of our neighbours. Yes this is the fastest way to make AMCA program a success. This is undoubtedly what is best for the program. But is that really what is best for the country?
I don't understand you here, if the AMCA programme is a success and the fighter top notch, how can it not be the best for the country? What more can we ask for, that a capable fighter to defend the country and an aviation programme that for once was successful?

I would be totally happy if it provides the basline capabilities according to the ASR requirements and comes with minimal delays. Nothing more, but certainly not less either. And that's all I hoped for Tejas for years as well, but delays and capability issues are constantly hurting the programme and we can't afford to repeat that.
We have to be realistic about our capabilities and not reach for the moon and let pride guide us, just to compete with other fighters.

once AMCA is inducted, it will take forever for DRDO to come up with indigenous replacements.
And that's only up to DRDO, but the important point is, that the fighter programme can still be a success independent from DRDOs developments.
Just as we can go for foreign AESA and engines for MK1A first and add Uttam and Kaveri / Snecma later, during the first main upgrade of IOC and FOC versions or when MK2 will be andvailable. But that's just secondary, the prime focus must be the success of Tejas and that's only possible with FOC => MK1A asap => MK2 to fix the flight performance issues in the long run.

The drag issues of Tejas arose due to IAF’s ever-changing GSQRs.
See, that's what I meant above. ADA is the designer, but the blame is on IAF.
 

soikot banerjee

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
195
Likes
787
Country flag
Many in the MOD, Navy and Defense Journalist would be happy of about how they have created a Cluster F**K out of N-LCA.
HAL and ADA are almost backing of too without user commitment, comes out IAF is better co-operating with them lately, why shouldn't they? There squadron is at a real mess up now.

Naval Tejas stalled, no flights for eight months (http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2018/01/naval-tejas-stalled-no-flights-for.html)

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 20th Jan 18


Even as the Indian Air Force (IAF) version of the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) powers ahead, the naval version of the Tejas has ground to a worrying standstill.

Neither of the two Naval LCA prototypes has taken off in eight months.

Since the last Naval LCA sortie on May 20, one of the prototypes lies half dismantled in Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), its interiors gaping open. The other stands forgotten on one side of the hangar.

Meanwhile the other 14 Tejas prototypes, which are flight-testing the IAF’s Tejas Mark 1, flew 406 test sorties last year – more flights than any preceding year, except 2013.

Navy chief, Admiral Sunil Lanba, has publicly rejected the Naval Tejas Mark 1 as too heavy to fly combat missions off an aircraft carrier. Instead, he has backed the Naval Tejas Mark 2, which will have a more powerful engine. But, with the Mark 1 effectively grounded, the Mark 2’s development is also crippled, if not actually halted.

That is because many systems essential for the Naval LCA Mark 2, such as the arrestor hook and leading edge vortex controllers (Levcons allow the fighter to land on a carrier deck at a slower speed), are being designed and tested on the Mark 1 prototypes. The Mark 1 is a crucial technology test-bed and data generator for developing the Mark 2.

That would be a serious setback for the navy, which urgently requires the Tejas for its next aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which will join the fleet in 2020, says Lanba. He said the Vikrant “is designed to operate the MiG-29K and the LCA.”

The eight-month gap in flight-testing the Naval Tejas has been a major setback for the test programme. At the “shore based test facility” (SBTF) in Goa – a concrete runway-cum-ramp that replicates an aircraft carrier deck – the easterly winter winds and furious west coast monsoon allow aircraft to take-off only in the February-to-June period. It was planned that the Naval Tejas would carry out an “arrested landing” in 2018, using the arrestor cables on the SBTF but, with no preliminary work done over the last eight months, this will now be possible only in February-to-June 2019. That means a project already heavily criticized for delay has just lost another full year.

Asked why HAL – which builds, repairs and operates Tejas prototypes – is going slow on the Naval Tejas, a senior HAL officer says the navy has turned its back on the programme.

“We have limited resources and manpower for Tejas flight-testing. The air force has committed to buying 123 Tejas fighters. The navy, on the other hand, has publicly rejected the Tejas. Why waste resources on the Naval Tejas?” says a top HAL executive.

However, technology development processes should not be linked with production orders, as HAL is doing, says a senior MoD official.

The navy chief insisted last month that he continues backing the Navy LCA. He said the navy has paid ~6 billion towards the Mark 1, ~3 billion for the Mark 2, and would pay more as development continues. “As far as the LCA Navy is concerned, we are committed to indigenisation. We have supported the project and continue to [do so]”, said Lanba.

But merely allocating funds will not energise the Naval Tejas programme, retorts a senior officer in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas programme. “A user service’s intent is evident from what it commits to the project in terms of test pilots, finance, oversight and most importantly moral support,” he says.

The navy has never committed more than three officers to the Tejas LCA. An ADA officer estimates that is one-fifth to one-tenth what the IAF has committed over the years.

Despite its protestations of support, the navy has steadily backed away from the Tejas programme. In March 2016, in the LCA Tejas Empowered Committee in the defence ministry, top admirals first declared the Tejas Mark I inadequate, but committed to supporting the Mark 2.

In May 2017, the navy declined to pay its 25 per cent share of the ~12.31 billioncost of enhancing the capacity of the LCA Mark I manufacturing line from 8 to 16 aircraft per year. The IAF is paying its share.

Difficulty is inevitable in translating an air force fighter into a naval, carrier-deck version, says aerospace expert Pushpinder Singh. It involves strengthening the entire aircraft, especially the undercarriage, to withstand the jarring impacts of carrier deck landings, which are often described as “controlled crashes”. This makes naval fighters heavier.

Despite the navy’s pusillanimous approach to the Tejas, that fighter remains crucial to the future of carrier deck aviation in India. The Russian MiG-29K has not proved a success and the navy is grappling with the consequences of that purchase. Procurement is under way of 57 multi-role carrier deck fighters, but that will take time and a cheap, light fighter like the Tejas will still be required on future aircraft carriers. “Realising the Tejas Mark 2 will require deeper reserves of fortitude and clarity than the navy, HAL and ADA have displayed so far”, says a senior naval officer.
 

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
5,705
Likes
21,815
Country flag
navy has rejected Tejas ....navy needs a twin engine fighter as it is good for deck operation...and also safer than sef....

but where ajayasukla got that information that navy wants mk2....
iaf..is keen in mk2
 

patriots

Defense lover
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
5,705
Likes
21,815
Country flag
Many in the MOD, Navy and Defense Journalist would be happy of about how they have created a Cluster F**K out of N-LCA.
HAL and ADA are almost backing of too without user commitment, comes out IAF is better co-operating with them lately, why shouldn't they? There squadron is at a real mess up now.

Naval Tejas stalled, no flights for eight months (http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2018/01/naval-tejas-stalled-no-flights-for.html)

By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 20th Jan 18


Even as the Indian Air Force (IAF) version of the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) powers ahead, the naval version of the Tejas has ground to a worrying standstill.

Neither of the two Naval LCA prototypes has taken off in eight months.

Since the last Naval LCA sortie on May 20, one of the prototypes lies half dismantled in Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), its interiors gaping open. The other stands forgotten on one side of the hangar.

Meanwhile the other 14 Tejas prototypes, which are flight-testing the IAF’s Tejas Mark 1, flew 406 test sorties last year – more flights than any preceding year, except 2013.

Navy chief, Admiral Sunil Lanba, has publicly rejected the Naval Tejas Mark 1 as too heavy to fly combat missions off an aircraft carrier. Instead, he has backed the Naval Tejas Mark 2, which will have a more powerful engine. But, with the Mark 1 effectively grounded, the Mark 2’s development is also crippled, if not actually halted.

That is because many systems essential for the Naval LCA Mark 2, such as the arrestor hook and leading edge vortex controllers (Levcons allow the fighter to land on a carrier deck at a slower speed), are being designed and tested on the Mark 1 prototypes. The Mark 1 is a crucial technology test-bed and data generator for developing the Mark 2.

That would be a serious setback for the navy, which urgently requires the Tejas for its next aircraft carrier, INS Vikrant, which will join the fleet in 2020, says Lanba. He said the Vikrant “is designed to operate the MiG-29K and the LCA.”

The eight-month gap in flight-testing the Naval Tejas has been a major setback for the test programme. At the “shore based test facility” (SBTF) in Goa – a concrete runway-cum-ramp that replicates an aircraft carrier deck – the easterly winter winds and furious west coast monsoon allow aircraft to take-off only in the February-to-June period. It was planned that the Naval Tejas would carry out an “arrested landing” in 2018, using the arrestor cables on the SBTF but, with no preliminary work done over the last eight months, this will now be possible only in February-to-June 2019. That means a project already heavily criticized for delay has just lost another full year.

Asked why HAL – which builds, repairs and operates Tejas prototypes – is going slow on the Naval Tejas, a senior HAL officer says the navy has turned its back on the programme.

“We have limited resources and manpower for Tejas flight-testing. The air force has committed to buying 123 Tejas fighters. The navy, on the other hand, has publicly rejected the Tejas. Why waste resources on the Naval Tejas?” says a top HAL executive.

However, technology development processes should not be linked with production orders, as HAL is doing, says a senior MoD official.

The navy chief insisted last month that he continues backing the Navy LCA. He said the navy has paid ~6 billion towards the Mark 1, ~3 billion for the Mark 2, and would pay more as development continues. “As far as the LCA Navy is concerned, we are committed to indigenisation. We have supported the project and continue to [do so]”, said Lanba.

But merely allocating funds will not energise the Naval Tejas programme, retorts a senior officer in the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which oversees the Tejas programme. “A user service’s intent is evident from what it commits to the project in terms of test pilots, finance, oversight and most importantly moral support,” he says.

The navy has never committed more than three officers to the Tejas LCA. An ADA officer estimates that is one-fifth to one-tenth what the IAF has committed over the years.

Despite its protestations of support, the navy has steadily backed away from the Tejas programme. In March 2016, in the LCA Tejas Empowered Committee in the defence ministry, top admirals first declared the Tejas Mark I inadequate, but committed to supporting the Mark 2.

In May 2017, the navy declined to pay its 25 per cent share of the ~12.31 billioncost of enhancing the capacity of the LCA Mark I manufacturing line from 8 to 16 aircraft per year. The IAF is paying its share.

Difficulty is inevitable in translating an air force fighter into a naval, carrier-deck version, says aerospace expert Pushpinder Singh. It involves strengthening the entire aircraft, especially the undercarriage, to withstand the jarring impacts of carrier deck landings, which are often described as “controlled crashes”. This makes naval fighters heavier.

Despite the navy’s pusillanimous approach to the Tejas, that fighter remains crucial to the future of carrier deck aviation in India. The Russian MiG-29K has not proved a success and the navy is grappling with the consequences of that purchase. Procurement is under way of 57 multi-role carrier deck fighters, but that will take time and a cheap, light fighter like the Tejas will still be required on future aircraft carriers. “Realising the Tejas Mark 2 will require deeper reserves of fortitude and clarity than the navy, HAL and ADA have displayed so far”, says a senior naval officer.
Bhai love your writings in quora....
 

soikot banerjee

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
195
Likes
787
Country flag
I
navy has rejected Tejas ....navy needs a twin engine fighter as it is good for deck operation...and also safer than sef....

but where ajayasukla got that information that navy wants mk2....
iaf..is keen in mk2
Thanks,
If navy is really interested in Mk-2 then they should not have backed off from paying there share of money for the second manufacturing line!
Actions does shows commitment!
 

Pandeyji

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
571
Likes
1,137
Country flag
I

Thanks,
If navy is really interested in Mk-2 then they should not have backed off from paying there share of money for the second manufacturing line!
Actions does shows commitment!
Navy is paying money for the project. But we should understand that a single engine fighter(esp. a light one like Tejas) isn't good for carrier operations.
 

soikot banerjee

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2017
Messages
195
Likes
787
Country flag
Navy is paying money for the project. But we should understand that a single engine fighter(esp. a light one like Tejas) isn't good for carrier operations.
It has paid for MK-1 Developement i.e FSED-1, then they backed off publicly, then they backed from paying there share of production line funds over that How can you explain the fact that the navy has extremely poor project feasibility and requirement examination system?
When they always wanted a so called twin engine then why in 2009 they came up with idea of NLCA?
Moreover I must add to this, RFI for MRCBF DOESNOT MANDATES TWIN ENGINE.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top