ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[G10]

That gun is going to give problems. Lighter the aircraft more difficult to dampen the gun vibrations.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Those FOC version are MK1A, Russian gun is made at OFT ..

Radar and protection suit is imported in MK1A ..

For the MK1A sure, but here we are talking about more than twice the costs for IOC and FOC versions. Can the addition of Chobham nose and refuelling probe, the Russian gun as well as Israeli missiles can't really raise the cost that much?

 

[tejas warrior]

Source for this information please.
If its an estimate please share that as well.

I also wanna know the average sortie duration and the life expectancy of Tejas. (Information is not available on line i tried).

Source :

HAL stands very strongly behind the LCA. We have established the production line capacity of eight aircrafts, the first five of them are already flying and have done more than 600 sorties. They are doing up. and we have kept things in place to produce eight and we are investing Rs 1,331 crore to increase the capacity to 16 deliverable a year. We have also used another concept of contracting the main components of the aircraft such as the front fuselage, centre fuselage, rear fuselage to L&T, WhAM, DTL.

http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...of-lca-thats-where-delays-are-coming-4944113/

Avg stories duration is mostly IAF confidential, you wouldn't get it officially for any fighter.

 

[Narasimh]

That gun is going to give problems. Lighter the aircraft more difficult to dampen the gun vibrations.

It does not make sense for any fighter design of 4th gen to have the Gun as an afterthought. that should have been designed first. Why are they struggling now?

 

[kamaal]

ALH costs 13.5 million dollars a piece. (Apache costs 13 million dollars and it is armed while ALH is unarmed)

Don't post such unproven/false numbers just to prove your point. ALH MK3 costs around $ 9-10 million per piece. MK1 used to cost only 5-5.5 million.

And FYI Apaches cost in range of $ 35-45 million depending on specifications, not 13.

At least think twice before posting such infos.

 

[Kshithij]

Don't post such unproven/false numbers just to prove your point. ALH MK3 costs around $ 9-10 million per piece. MK1 used to cost only 5-5.5 million.

And FYI Apaches cost in range of $ 35-45 million depending on specifications, not 13.

At least think twice before posting such infos.

I posted it based on the tweet based on this post :
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-news-and-discussions.1/page-761#post-1390575

In Lok Sabha. The below information given by RRM Subhash Bhamre in a written reply to Prof Saugata Roy and Innocent today.
@akananth

Calculate the cost yourself.

Wiki said that Apache cost was 13.5 million dollars. It may have been wrong. But, even then 13 million dollars for a utility helicopter is a bit more. Mi17 costs slightly more for much better payload and armour.

So, my conclusion: Investment cost is included in the initial production. Just like Rafale deal involves excessive investment and integration cost, even in case of indigenous aircrafts like LCA or ALH, the investment cost is being considered and not simply sanctioned as research cost. The focus is on making the plane directly instead of simply prototyping and repeated lengthy tests

 

[abingdonboy]

I posted it based on the tweet based on this post :
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-news-and-discussions.1/page-761#post-1390575


Calculate the cost yourself.

Wiki said that Apache cost was 13.5 million dollars. It may have been wrong. But, even then 13 million dollars for a utility helicopter is a bit more. Mi17 costs slightly more for much better payload and armour.

So, my conclusion: Investment cost is included in the initial production. Just like Rafale deal involves excessive investment and integration cost, even in case of indigenous aircrafts like LCA or ALH, the investment cost is being considered and not simply sanctioned as research cost. The focus is on making the plane directly instead of simply prototyping and repeated lengthy tests

Whaaat? $13m for the AH-64A in 1986 perhaps but present price of AH-64E is >$40m.

Those figures given for the ALH are deceptive as they include the cost for the Rudra. Mk.3 utility version is sub $10m/unit.

 

[cannonfodder]

From BR(indranil):

SP5 has cleared all taxi trials and will take to the air soon. :biggrin2:

Tejas capable of 28 degrees AoA but certified for 26. :biggrin2:
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http://www.governancenow.com/views/...as-and-arjun-is-not-just-about-defence-forces

The two instances, needless to say, have been underplayed by the mainstream media to such an extent that only handful are aware of it. The first was Tejas aircraft’s international debut that took place at the Bahrain Air Show (BAS) in January 2016. The fact that it happened against the backdrop of a sustained and dirty campaign to scuttle the aircraft’s participation goes on to only show how afraid the entrenched lobbies are of the potential of this aircraft. Such was the impact of the move to field Tejas at BAS that China and Pakistan at the last minute withdrew their new multirole JF-17, an aircraft that they have been hawking as a replacement to nations that cannot afford the legendary American F-16. When seasoned international aerospace journalists saw the practice runs of Tejas, where Commodore Jaideep Maolonkar, Chief Test Pilot at National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), and Group Captain Madhav Rangachari, effortlessly kept pulling 8 ‘G’ and beyond, the Twitter world was engulfed by waves being created by this new and relatively unknown aircraft.

Some exaggeration IMHO opinion but worth a read.
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[Pandora]

Brand new video posted by Official Tejas youtube handle.Enjoyyy..

 

[Kyubi]

Brand new video posted by Official Tejas youtube handle.Enjoyyy..

Badly wanted to check out the SP01 and its manufacturing finesse but the video kinda spoilt it. Nevertheless great going

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[Pulkit]

Source :

HAL stands very strongly behind the LCA. We have established the production line capacity of eight aircrafts, the first five of them are already flying and have done more than 600 sorties. They are doing up. and we have kept things in place to produce eight and we are investing Rs 1,331 crore to increase the capacity to 16 deliverable a year. We have also used another concept of contracting the main components of the aircraft such as the front fuselage, centre fuselage, rear fuselage to L&T, WhAM, DTL.

http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...of-lca-thats-where-delays-are-coming-4944113/

Avg stories duration is mostly IAF confidential, you wouldn't get it officially for any fighter.

thanks for the source but i have my doubts still. as they said 600 sortie total of first 5 which means Tejas 1 and 2 must have made major chunk on them as per induction. I think there is a certain check on sorties also before we need a major overhaul.
But thats not known.... Top secret.

 

[lcafanboy]

HAL’s reliance on Tejas set to expand as major programmes move towards completion
Published January 5, 2018 | By admin SOURCE: Jane’s Defence Weekly

HAL has so far manufactured 153 Su-30MKI fighter jets of 182 ordered at the rate of 12 aircraft per year for INR 59,420 crores (US $937 million). HAL has completed manufacturing of Hawk MK 132 trainer aircraft, only two Dornier Do-228 aircraft of 14 are left for production. Of the 159 Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) Dhruv ordered for INR 13,799 crores (US $2.1 billion) HAL has to produce only five more. Ten Cheetal helicopters are still to be produced for INR 203 crores (US $32 million), according to ministry of defense statement Wednesday. India is spending INR 2702 crores ($426 million) for production of 20 Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) LCA Tejas aircraft and INR 5989 crores ($944 million) for 20 Final Operational Clearance (FOC) aircraft. Six aircraft have been produced so far. HAL is also awaiting an Indian Air Force order of 83 Tejas light combat aircraft valued at an approximate Rs 50,000 crore (US $7.8 billion). IAF has issued to HAL a Request for Proposal (RFP) for the same last month. The final deal for the procurement is likely to be inked within the next four months. Out of these 83 LCA, 10 will be used for training purposes. HAL plans to transfer the technology of its ALH Dhruv to a domestic defense manufacturer for commercial production. is in the process of identifying a private entity with whom it will share the technology for the production of twin-engine combat helicopter in India. It is likely to float a Request for Information (RFI) soon for identifying an Indian private agency that can produce the civilian version of the ALH Dhruv helicopters in future.

http://idrw.org/hals-reliance-on-te...ogrammes-move-towards-completion/#more-158717 .

 

[tejas warrior]

Know The #IAF : #MakeInIndia Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) #Tejas is the first advance Fly-by-Wire (FBW) Fighter Aircraft designed, developed & manufactured in India. Inducted into the No. 45 Squadron "FlyingDaggers" of the #IndianAirForce. Watch Full Video: https://goo.gl/g38UzJ

 

[tejas warrior]

The desi LCA is defence ministry’s low-hanging fruit and it needs to be plucked now

A quick turnaround of the Tejas light fighter is on the cards but the government needs to step up.

It has been loved, hated, coveted, admonished and even ridiculed but for India’s homegrown combat aircraft, right now might just be the right time. The light combat aircraft (LCA) is the defence ministry’s lowest hanging fruit on the ‘Make in India’ path but it needs one final big push for which the government would need to step up soon.

Two things stand in the way of the fighter fully taking off as a potent symbol of the Indian defence industry – a strange interference by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) itself and a painful obsession of the air force to diversify its fleet even further with a new, foreign origin single-engine fighter.

For a development programme that was sanctioned in 1983, the light fighter has come a long way. After limping its way through the 2000s, the single-engine jet has shown promise of late, maybe not as a cutting edge, globally competitive fighter but certainly as a platform that will enhance India’s combat capabilities within the region.

The desi fighter project is also one of the few things that the UPA and BJP governments have had a similar view on — the defence ministry under both regimes, driven by the person at the top, has been generous to overrule objections of the air force to give the Tejas time to mature.

A running battle between the air force, which insisted that the fighter is not good enough, and the defence ministry — batting for a homegrown jet to be accepted — came to head in 2015. Peace was brokered by then defence minister Manohar Parrikar on four simple terms.

That the air force would place orders for five squadrons of the fighter jet provided that four parameters are met — a world-class Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar to track targets, a long-range beyond visual range missile, air-to-air refuelling capability to enhance range and modern electronic warfare capability for survivability of the aircraft.
The deal was simple — meet these four requirements and the air force would have no choice but to place orders, giving the jet a fighting chance of proving its combat capability.

While progress has been made at various levels on integrating these four enhancements, DRDO itself, which has been deeply involved in the project, has come as a possible hindrance. Scientists have placed on record strong protests over efforts by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) to purchase new radars and electronic warfare systems from the global market. The logic? That these systems can be developed in India if the funds are allocated.

Given the tight timeline in which they need to be integrated and proven on board the Tejas — by 2020 — the best case scenario is to purchase the radars and systems from the global market and replace them subsequently with a homegrown solution when it matures.

However, with DRDO’s objections on record, it would take a strong stand by the defence ministry to do the right thing and honour the deal brokered in 2015. The question to be answered is whether the defence ministry is willing to bite the bullet to get the LCA truly off the ground.

The other challenge for this true ‘Make in India’ programme is the new-found foreign origin single-engine fighter jet obsession of the air force. The air force wants to buy several new fighter jets in the coming years.

The Rafale order has already been placed with a possibility of many more, a fifth generation fighter from Russia is on the cards but to further make up for numbers, the air force has moved a proposal for 118 new fighters — to be assembled in India. By specifying that it only wants jets with a single engine, only two jets in the world meet this requirement — the American F-16 and the Swedish Gripen.

By going with this ‘single engine’ formula, the air force is, in fact, contradicting itself. Years ago, when it started the now infamous Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition, it was specified that the capabilities of a fighter would be judged — speed, range, weapon delivery, survivability etc — and not the number of engines it is equipped with. This gave way to the selection of the Eurofigher and Rafale as technically compatible fighters to Indian requirements, rejecting both the F-16 and the Gripen.

The fact is that a third single-engine fighter jet choice is now available for India — an improved, spruced up LCA that will be the precursor to a full range of homegrown combat aircraft.

And this might well be the most viable option.

https://theprint.in/2018/01/05/the-...hanging-fruit-and-it-needs-to-be-plucked-now/

 

[tejas warrior]

The IAF #Tejas wud also be the part of #RepublicDay parade this year

 

[Prashant12]

#LCATejas PV-6 (KH2010) taking off from Leh during the 2016 High-Altitude Hot Weather Trials

#ADA #NFTC #Leh

https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca

 

[Sancho]

Those FOC version are MK1A,

No they are not, they can include the MK1A upgrades when AESA and EW are selected, but they are only fully operational MK1s

 

[Sancho]

Or it might be that the more mature platforms have achieved economy of scale and are easy to produce hence making the price competitive, unlike Tejas which will take time to achieve this.

No doubt about that, but the issue is the cost difference between IOC and FOC, for the same numbers, but at more than twice the costs. Either FOC got upgraded with so many costly stuff that the costs jumped that much, or IOC was so basic, that the low costs was deceiving.
FOC with pulse dipper radar and basic multi role capabilities at 47 million could of course get lower with economy of scale too, but as we know the plan is to move on to MK1A at even higher costs with AESA radar and new EW system. It will be interesting to see where the MK1A cost starts.

 

[kamaal]

I posted it based on the tweet based on this post :
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-news-and-discussions.1/page-761#post-1390575


Calculate the cost yourself.

Wiki said that Apache cost was 13.5 million dollars. It may have been wrong. But, even then 13 million dollars for a utility helicopter is a bit more. Mi17 costs slightly more for much better payload and armour.

So, my conclusion: Investment cost is included in the initial production. Just like Rafale deal involves excessive investment and integration cost, even in case of indigenous aircrafts like LCA or ALH, the investment cost is being considered and not simply sanctioned as research cost. The focus is on making the plane directly instead of simply prototyping and repeated lengthy tests

13799 crore for 159 ALH means, per chopper the cost is only 86.78 crore INR. One current exchange rates i.e. ~66 INR / $ it is around $ 13 million. At this price IAF/IA/IN will get the complete package, it is not the flyaway cost. So my prediction of $ 9-10 million isn't wrong.

Plus I don't agree that Mi-17 the current variant which we use, costs less than ALH with maintenance and life cycle cost included.

 

[tejas warrior]

#LCATejas PV-6 (KH2010) taking off from Leh during the 2016 High-Altitude Hot Weather Trials

#ADA #NFTC #Leh

https://www.facebook.com/tejas.lca

It's a beautiful picture considering Tejas is able to operate from Leh with ease where F16 & Gripen failed miserably.