ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Indx TechStyle]

yes .. DRDO shud learn technological upgradation from ISRO. first we need to get more expertise on conventional aircraft manufacturing and design.. then we shud push the gear for the next technology level..
anyway sukhoi-T-50 is their to meet our stealth requirements , we should be focused on making better and more advanced version of Tejas or a different design and engine of our own.. Then AMCA ..

Well well my friend, DRDO and ISRO are almost at same phase compared to other great powers' corresponding PSUs.

1. ISRO stands nowhere near DRDO in experience and skill of designing aircrafts. Yes, RLV isn't there.
2. ISRO gets more importance because till date only 9-10 countries in the world have space programs with launch services. Active and capable of usable satellite launches are even fewer, ISRO is one of them.
3. Against China and Japan who started at same time we did, ISRO falls short in launch capacity and frequency.It's very recent that we are ramping the capabilities up and same is going on for our defense sector. Nothing strange, just a nationalist government.
4. We praise ISRO for rocket engines but forget that DRDO also has stellar record in making missiles. Reason is simple that rocket and missile engines are for single use purpose but aircraft engines are to be used again and again thousands of times (for example, Tejas had 3000+ flights) which makes aircraft engines more complex than rocket engines. There is a very good reason that even China is struggling in this. I think India needs to produce or import Rhenium for these engines (a primary Raw material used). West has some of it's largest reserves.

 

[suny6611]

yes .. DRDO shud learn technological upgradation from ISRO. first we need to get more expertise on conventional aircraft manufacturing and design.. then we shud push the gear for the next technology level..
anyway sukhoi-T-50 is their to meet our stealth requirements , we should be focused on making better and more advanced version of Tejas or a different design and engine of our own.. Then AMCA ..

can u list what all ISRO technology has which DRDO or ADA or HAL or even IAF + IN + IA can use ?

 

[PD_Solo]

Was Sachin present ,sitting between two chiefs ?

 

[Indx TechStyle]

can u list what all ISRO technology has which DRDO or ADA or HAL or even IAF + IN + IA can use ?

• DMRJ Scramjet for hypersonic missiles (in near future)
• Communication and Navigation Satellites (for communication, tracking and missile/drone navigation)
• Reconnaissance Satellite (for visual spying)
• A lot of things have been coming out from ISRO's research on Human Spaceflight program like life support systems and body warmers. More will come as we will go ahead.

And, I can't list up everything. These are just main points.

 

[Bahamut]

Saw Tejas performance in personal, it was great. Tejas has bright future in India.

 

[tejas warrior]

Postcards from Hindon by Tarmak007

Tejas special

 

[Akask kumar]

can u list what all ISRO technology has which DRDO or ADA or HAL or even IAF + IN + IA can use ?

there are many.. and one user has mentioned few..
technology used in developing space crafts benefits both military and civilians.. from diapers to extensive heat shields.,communications,tracking etc.. if militarization of space took place in future,(coz of china) ..ISRO ,DRDO,ADA may work more closer..

 

[Butter Chicken]

Can someone explain why IAF doesn't want to induct Tejas in large numbers,especially to replace the flying coffins?

 

[Prashant12]

Tejas Light Combat Aircraft demonstrates over the Hindon Airbase

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Can someone explain why IAF doesn't want to induct Tejas in large numbers,especially to replace the flying coffins?

Can you explain that who told you this?

 

[Adioz]

first we need to get more expertise on conventional aircraft manufacturing and design.. then we shud push the gear for the next technology level..
anyway sukhoi-T-50 is their to meet our stealth requirements , we should be focused on making better and more advanced version of Tejas or a different design and engine of our own.. Then AMCA ..

DRDO scientists overcame a number of challenges to design a 4th generation fighter. No reason they can not do so again with the AMCA.
What do you mean by "first we need to get more expertise on conventional aircraft manufacturing and design" ?
Do you want DRDO to design another 4th gen aircraft?
Agreed that we lack in some areas (such as aircraft engines) and we expected to master these with the LCA project and failed. However we were also able to master a lot of the technologies that we targeted (eg:- FBW, composite and light weight airframe, etc). Do not undersell the LCA simply because it has a certain amount of foreign content. What we need now is a new set of design challenges (AMCA) where we will face new challenges in technology (eg:- serpentine intakes, RAM, etc) as well as old ones (eg:-engines, etc). Its not as if we learnt nothing from our failures in LCA. We will not repeat the same mistakes with the AMCA (eg:- look at how the they plan to bring in private sector in a big way with the HAL only playing the role of final integrator of AMCA. This is a lesson learnt from the dismal production rate of LCA.)

 

[Akask kumar]

DRDO scientists overcame a number of challenges to design a 4th generation fighter. No reason they can not do so again with the AMCA.
What do you mean by "first we need to get more expertise on conventional aircraft manufacturing and design" ?
Do you want DRDO to design another 4th gen aircraft?
Agreed that we lack in some areas (such as aircraft engines) and we expected to master these with the LCA project and failed. However we were also able to master a lot of the technologies that we targeted (eg:- FBW, composite and light weight airframe, etc). Do not undersell the LCA simply because it has a certain amount of foreign content. What we need now is a new set of design challenges (AMCA) where we will face new challenges in technology (eg:- serpentine intakes, RAM, etc) as well as old ones (eg:-engines, etc). Its not as if we learnt nothing from our failures in LCA. We will not repeat the same mistakes with the AMCA (eg:- look at how the they plan to bring in private sector in a big way with the HAL only playing the role of final integrator of AMCA. This is a lesson learnt from the dismal production rate of LCA.)

i am not underselling LCA.. its best in its category. but its light weight.. how about building our own version of heavier craft for strike and air superiority(less import).LCA is not the answer to all. Why it would be a problem if we have mulitple 4,4.5 generation design on our table..??

Since we have overcome the design challenges and gained knowledge while designing LCA, we can expect heavier 4.5 generation craft lot sooner than AMCA..

if u read the news and comment in this thread all are compalining about the rate of manufacturing of LCA..Why not adress this issue ,why not take measure in boosting production line..
in real war number matters over technology.

Sukhoi,mirage etc have self life time.. how gvt is planning to replace these craft in future?? With imports?? buying overpriced planes??designing heavier craft should not be a big deal for us now..

 

[rohit b3]

Can someone explain why IAF doesn't want to induct Tejas in large numbers,especially to replace the flying coffins?

Politics/Corruption/Inefficiency.....a combination of loads of factors.
Personally, for me, rather than signing the Rafale deal, the Govt could have spent some money on building the LCA manufacturing infrastructure .

 

[Defcon 1]

Politics/Corruption/Inefficiency.....a combination of loads of factors.
Personally, for me, rather than signing the Rafale deal, the Govt could have spent some money on building the LCA manufacturing infrastructure .

Where did you read that lca's manufacturing infrastructure is short of money?

 

[rohit b3]

Where did you read that lca's manufacturing infrastructure is short of money?

Any other reason that im unaware of?

 

[Anupu]

DRDO scientists overcame a number of challenges to design a 4th generation fighter. No reason they can not do so again with the AMCA.
What do you mean by "first we need to get more expertise on conventional aircraft manufacturing and design" ?
Do you want DRDO to design another 4th gen aircraft?
Agreed that we lack in some areas (such as aircraft engines) and we expected to master these with the LCA project and failed. However we were also able to master a lot of the technologies that we targeted (eg:- FBW, composite and light weight airframe, etc). Do not undersell the LCA simply because it has a certain amount of foreign content. What we need now is a new set of design challenges (AMCA) where we will face new challenges in technology (eg:- serpentine intakes, RAM, etc) as well as old ones (eg:-engines, etc). Its not as if we learnt nothing from our failures in LCA. We will not repeat the same mistakes with the AMCA (eg:- look at how the they plan to bring in private sector in a big way with the HAL only playing the role of final integrator of AMCA. This is a lesson learnt from the dismal production rate of LCA.)

Issue is not LCA or it's capability, LCA MKII will be more than a match for gripen, but will HAL and DRDO be able to make them in time? The problem I think with LCA was trying to build everything at once, engine, avionics, cockpit, etc. No country has ever done that. And we didn't have any local Suppliers, I am worried about AMCA too because I don't see any progress on the sub systems, they should be using a mig 29 or a mirage to test components of AMCA already, like the avionics, data integration etc. Otherwise we will have to build a TD and then wait till all the things are in place.

LCA may be a good project from a scientific point of you, but from a management point of view, it's a clusterfuck. I just hope AMCA doesn't have similar problems. Watch this video it's very interesting:

 

[Defcon 1]

Any other reason that im unaware of?

First of all there is no one against tejas. The plane got ioc 2 only in 2015. Courtesy ada.

Since then HAL has delivered a grand total of 2 fighters. The people here and ajay shukla had been begging IAF to increase its order of mk1 from 40 to 60 fighters as that would allow HAL to setup production line and give time to complete mk2. IAF went a step ahead and ordered 120 mk1, virtually cancelling mk2. Note that IAF won't have the required capability to defend the nation because it compromised to keep HAL's production line running.

Now when this plan was announced, parrikar put a graph on internet showing year by year production plan for LCA. The vision was to get 120 by 2025. Now IAF chief is saying he expects 120 lca only by 2027. How exactly is that IAF's fault when HAL is incapable of sticking to agreed timelines?

The culprit in the LCA program have always been the same. Ada overpromising on development but under delivering and hal with its slow production rates. In its entire history hal hasn't been able to meet the production timelines on any of its programs. Read the cag report on dhruv or look at the delays in su30 production.

Iaf on the other hand is much eager to get their hands on tejas than some fanboys here. When a mig crashes, its iaf pilots who die, not hal's engineers or ada's scientists or some armchair generals here. Still for some reason, iaf is the one getting all the bad name on this forum.

 

[Adioz]

i am not underselling LCA.. its best in its category. but its light weight.. how about building our own version of heavier craft for strike and air superiority(less import).LCA is not the answer to all. Why it would be a problem if we have mulitple 4,4.5 generation design on our table..??

Since we have overcome the design challenges and gained knowledge while designing LCA, we can expect heavier 4.5 generation craft lot sooner than AMCA..

if u read the news and comment in this thread all are compalining about the rate of manufacturing of LCA..Why not adress this issue ,why not take measure in boosting production line..
in real war number matters over technology.

Sukhoi,mirage etc have self life time.. how gvt is planning to replace these craft in future?? With imports?? buying overpriced planes??designing heavier craft should not be a big deal for us now..

The future air-fleet:-
Heavy Fighters: FGFA (5th gen) + Su-30 mki
Medium Fighters: AMCA (5th gen) + Rafael + Fighter X
Light Fighters: LCA

YOUR OPTION

• You want Fighter X to be designed by us now and no AMCA for the time being.
• How much time do you think it will take before its first flight?
• I'll be optimistic and say its about 7 years down the line. And inductions begin by 2026.
• Thereafter, AMCA induction begins 2037.

Note that AMCA design process is already underway. By putting it in cold storage, you are sabotaging the hard work of our DRDO scientists.

MY OPTION

• I want Fighter X to be F-18 or F-16.
• Inductions begin 2019.
• AMCA developed to IOC by 2027.

Which is the faster option? You decide.

@Anupu

BTW, Read this report.
You will see how there will be no slow production issues with the AMCA, the sort of which we are facing with the LCA.

• Fighter X is not a costly option. It is the second most cost effective option left to us.
• The only other better option is to ramp up Tejas production and induct close to 500 fighters as a stop gap to see us through the next decade (after which some of those will be replaced by FGFA and AMCA). Economies of scale will further bring down production and spares costs for Tejas. LCA fighters later replaced by AMCA can also be exported as second hand products to Africa or South America or Philippines.
• But the government seems uninterested in Tejas.

 

[Adioz]

Politics/Corruption/Inefficiency.....a combination of loads of factors.
Personally, for me, rather than signing the Rafale deal, the Govt could have spent some money on building the LCA manufacturing infrastructure .

Hey, don't take it out on the Rafael. We need that aircraft and the Meteor BVRAAM it comes with. LCA is facing production issues due to inexperience and lack of fore-sight. Do not label everything as corruption. Don't get me wrong, I wish the government would ramp up Tejas to produce 500 examples of the aircraft. Maybe the government itself wishes to do so. But wishing for something does not get you it. These issues are not so simple. Ramping up production needs to be economical and hence it will be gradual.

 

[suny6611]

Any other reason that im unaware of?

yes the chairperson stated that the team worked 13 to 19 hr. to get the 1st tejas delivered .............. got the point.