ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Narasimh]

found these clicks of Tejas in my disk, Areo India '11:

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Isn't that too heavy for a light fighter like Tejas?
More realistically, it's AMCA.
Moreover, LCA and MCA are supersonic planes. Nirbhay is subsonic.

Many versions of Nirbhay shall be build. Heavier and lighter.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I have been a big advocate of improving Tejas MK1 when people were advocating the Mk2 to get rid of problems. Now that is happening in Tejas Mk1+. A big 8% Aerodynamic improvement and weight reduction. These togather should make tejas at par with Gripen C and better than any gripen in EW and radar area after fitting Israeli AESA and EW.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Nirbhay air launched version will be lighter and can be used by Tejas as well ..

Nirbhay is subsonic and has greater range than PJ-10 ..

Air launch Nirbhay may not need booster like Brahmos NG since the sufficient kinetic energy may already be there. What it needs is just starting of turbo engine to sustain the flight at mach 0.8. What say? So there will automatically weight reduction and size reduction.

 

[sasum]

There's gonna be two versions of air-launched Nirbhay. A 1200-km one which will be a direct conversion of the existing ground-launched version, weighs about 1 ton or lesser. This will be equipped only on Su-30MKI.

There will also be a smaller 750-km version that will also be much lighter. This can be carried by pretty much any IAF combat aircraft, depending on requirement.

It can be launched when the plane is flying subsonic. Besides, I'm pretty sure Nirbhay is designed to reach supersonic/transonic speeds at some point of it's flight profile, although it's cruise speed remains at 0.7 mach - this was revealed about a year ago.

So it shouldn't have any problem even while travelling at higher speeds, carried by launch aircraft.

What perhaps @Indx TechStyle meant is, Tejas has a combat radius of 500 km (likely to increase in future iterations). If the plane takes off from near the border, it can accomplish the mission 500 km deep inside enemy territory carrying glider bombs etc. travelling at supersonic speed and come back.
Nirbhay, on the other hand, travels 750 km inside at subsonic speed, carrying much less chemical explosive and will not come back. So which option is more pragmatic ?

 

[Rahul Singh]

I have been a big advocate of improving Tejas MK1 when people were advocating the Mk2 to get rid of problems. Now that is happening in Tejas Mk1+. A big 8% Aerodynamic improvement and weight reduction. These togather should make tejas at par with Gripen C and better than any gripen in EW and radar area after fitting Israeli AESA and EW.

Actually this is the natural way forward, and in practice world over. Look what SAAB did with Gripen C. They first developed Gripen Demo, then they progressed to Gripen E, while making Gripen Demo as baseline model for future up-gradation of Gripen C.

Unfortunately, IAF which never realized importance of supporting indigenisation of its flying assets took LCA program on complete ride and onto path of failure i might dare say. Thanks to present RM, Navy and persistence of aviation community that we have an aeronautics industry to speak of something.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Actually this is the natural way forward, and in practice world over. Look what SAAB did with Gripen C. They first developed Gripen Demo, then they progressed to Gripen E, while making Gripen Demo as baseline model for future up-gradation of Gripen C.

Unfortunately, IAF which never realized importance of supporting indigenisation of its flying assets took LCA program on complete ride and onto path of failure i might dare say. Thanks to present RM, Navy and persistence of aviation community that we have an aeronautics industry to speak of something.

Yes, look at our Tejas program and what we achieved with our first plane. I am sure that if properly funded, We can have a plane of Gripen NG class in next decade or 12 years. We did a lots of R & D and that is paying off now. Getting a Tejas like plane in first attempt without any background is not a joke. What we need now is to jump to fifth generation Tejas. Government should allocate proper fund and should ask scientist to prepare design withing 3 years and next 2 years fro building prototype. It should use GE 414 EPE engine generating 414 HP. It should fly at mach 2 and carry atleast 5.5 ton pay load. Our scientist showed that they are capable of making better than the best, We can have one plane of Gripen NG class with stealth and we may use it till 2050.

 

[Superdefender]

@sasum , but if Tejas starts flying from border carrying Nirbhay, then deep strike range of Tejas will be increased to 1,250km.

 

[sasum]

be equipped only on Su-30MKI.

Yes, look at our Tejas program and what we achieved with our first plane. I am sure that if properly funded, We can have a plane of Gripen NG class in next decade or 12 years. We did a lots of R & D and that is paying off now. Getting a Tejas like plane in first attempt without any background is not a joke. What we need now is to jump to fifth generation Tejas. Government should allocate proper fund and should ask scientist to prepare design withing 3 years and next 2 years fro building prototype. It should use GE 414 EPE engine generating 414 HP. It should fly at mach 2 and carry atleast 5.5 ton pay load. Our scientist showed that they are capable of making better than the best, We can have one plane of Gripen NG class with stealth and we may use it till 2050.

I agree with this aporoach. Moreover, Tejas is far from a finished product. With this, we have not mastered any of the critical tech associated with fighter jets like Engine and Radar. Even the Airframe is a knock-off of Mirage-2000. We must learn to make critical components and strengthen our aeronautical engineering base, before attempting another aircraft.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Tejas wing is cranked delta design, Aerodynamically their is a large difference and its does for specific needs ..

I suggest please go through this thread, All of these have been covered in great detail ..

Even the Airframe is a knock-off of Mirage-2000.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

We don`t need Gripen and their design, We have better ..

ADA rejected the design long back ..

 

[garg_bharat]

Nirbhay air launched version will be lighter and can be used by Tejas as well ..

Nirbhay is subsonic and has greater range than PJ-10 ..

I read that Russian predecessor of brahmos - yakhont has a range of 500km. Likely brahmos is range limited to 290km due to mtcr.

I think it is the computer or autopilot that flies a cruise missile. The computer monitors all flight parameters and regulates the speed etc.

Brahmos is a very good missile but expensive. Subsonic cruise missiles are much cheaper.

A small cruise missile with a range of 120km is adequate for LCA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

PJ-10 is not part of Tejas, But Nirbay is for long range strike specifically against C4I ..

KH-35 or AGM-84 is also for Navel variant ..

I read that Russian predecessor of brahmos - yakhont has a range of 500km. Likely brahmos is range limited to 290km due to mtcr.

I think it is the computer or autopilot that flies a cruise missile. The computer monitors all flight parameters and regulates the speed etc.

Brahmos is a very good missile but expensive. Subsonic cruise missiles are much cheaper.

A small cruise missile with a range of 120km is adequate for LCA.

 

[sasum]

@sasum , but if Tejas starts flying from border carrying Nirbhay, then deep strike range of Tejas will be increased to 1,250km.

So you reduce fighter planes to mobile missile launchers..eh? Good but there is a chance of losing both. :biggrin2:

 

[sasum]

Tejas wing is cranked delta design, Aerodynamically their is a large difference and its does for specific needs ..

I suggest please go through this thread, All of these have been covered in great detail ..

Can you please direct me to the specific page ? It is a long thread !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The topic is been repeated multiple times, A little search would get you results ..

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/ada-tejas-lca-news-and-discussions.1/page-231

Credit : @ersakthivel

Can you please direct me to the specific page ? It is a long thread !

 

[HariPrasad-1]

be equipped only on Su-30MKI.

I agree with this aporoach. Moreover, Tejas is far from a finished product. With this, we have not mastered any of the critical tech associated with fighter jets like Engine and Radar. Even the Airframe is a knock-off of Mirage-2000. We must learn to make critical components and strengthen our aeronautical engineering base, before attempting another aircraft.

No We can stop and rest in other areas till engine and radar is developed. Nobody does that. We have now proved our stuff in many other areas and we must keep developing it. By the time the engine is ready, we must have other things in place so that when the radars and engines are ready, we may simply replace them to make fighter fully our own.

 

[Zebra]

PJ-10 is not part of Tejas, But Nirbay is for long range strike specifically against C4I ..

KH-35 or AGM-84 is also for Navel variant ..

Sir, why can't they prefer RBS-15....!

It is bit heavy, yes, but it has 250+ range too.

 

[sasum]

The topic is been repeated multiple times, A little search would get you results ..

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/ada-tejas-lca-news-and-discussions.1/page-231

Credit : @ersakthivel

Thanks for your effort. I have a few questions:
1. Tejas doesn't have ailerons, flaps or thrust-vectoring and depends on the rudder for turning. Is this the reason why it is incapable of turning at small angles?

2. Tail-less delta wing was first used in Mirage III series. May be that is why people think Tejas was inspired by it. Tejas's wings are cranked in a different way (like F-16 XL) i.e,..kinked inwards at fuselage. Does it really constitute a novel aerodynamic structure ?

3. Since Delta wings cover bigger area, don't they contribute to unnecessary weight, particularly when the aim is to make an LCA with a single engine ?

 

[Rahul Singh]

Yes, look at our Tejas program and what we achieved with our first plane. I am sure that if properly funded, We can have a plane of Gripen NG class in next decade or 12 years. We did a lots of R & D and that is paying off now. Getting a Tejas like plane in first attempt without any background is not a joke. What we need now is to jump to fifth generation Tejas. Government should allocate proper fund and should ask scientist to prepare design withing 3 years and next 2 years fro building prototype. It should use GE 414 EPE engine generating 414 HP. It should fly at mach 2 and carry atleast 5.5 ton pay load. Our scientist showed that they are capable of making better than the best, We can have one plane of Gripen NG class with stealth and we may use it till 2050.

NLCA MK-2 will have 5 ton plus combat load and similar volume of fuel as Gripen E does. Be sure on that. Since weight reduction is one of the driving force we might also see mach 2 performance. In nut-shell whatever MK-2 loses over Gripen E will be in terms of volume, which may not alow inclusion of IRST and like. But on rest it will shoulder.