ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

[Singh]

Source IDRW
Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) missed another Internal deadline, which went unnoticed in National media. HAL which has skipped many deadlines in the past again failed to get its act together and failed to deliver series production (SP-2) variant of India's Light Combat Aircraft Tejas before March deadline.

Can HAL Finally Get Its Act Together for Tejas Push | idrw.org

@Yusufdfi @SajeevJino @ersakthivel @Kunal Biswas

HAL zbad ?

 

[SajeevJino]

@Yusufdfi @SajeevJino @ersakthivel @Kunal Biswas

HAL zbad ?

lets someone have a beer .!!


ADA should look others to produce it's fighter .!!

 

[Kunal Biswas]

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

^^ From the above TOI report about now or never for LCA, the below statement of Parrikar, is what makes the most sense. HAL and DRDO, but mostly HAL, has to seriously start delivering, or GoI, will be forced to look at other options and there will be consequences for HAL. Upto 6 squadrons over the next 5 years, would mean, additional nos. of MK-1 or MK-1.5!!!!

" Incidentally, the original plan was that six squadrons each of MMRCA and Tejas would replace the existing 10 Mig-21 and four MiG-27 squadrons. Parrikar, on his part, said, "In the next four to five years, we can add about six LCA squadrons if we push HAL, which I am doing."

==================


About this Gripen / F16 hype, Gripen nor F16 was not qualified technically and other basis, Their opportunity would come only when LCA fails technically and then they would be again competing against others. It is highly unlikely that their is a place for other aircraft rather this is a pressure tactic being used by Parikkar to push the project into completion and since first time Indians are experiencing such push from the top hence some :shocked: being witnessed. The present delay isn't much cause for worry since this is the last leg.
@ersakthivel, Your thoughts ..

Talking down Dassault is not helpful. It is important to improve IAF numbers by inducting more fighters per year (I mentioned a target of 50 per year). This number cannot come from local sources alone. Local capacity is ONLY 15 Su-30 and 8 (?) LCA. Obviously more than 50% fighters have to come from foreign sources in the current scenario.

Even if Gripen is made in India - say at the rate of 15 fighters per year - there still would be scope for increased number of LCA Tejas buys compared to what can be produced today. India needs to induct 25-30 light single engined fighters per year.

The MK-1 is not suitable for carrier deployment due to low range. The carrier deployment will come with MK-2.

=============

You are having too many beers, Stop it flowing over this thread ..

lets someone have a beer .!!

ADA should look others to produce it's fighter .!!

 

[ersakthivel]

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

^^ From the above TOI report about now or never for LCA, the below statement of Parrikar, is what makes the most sense. HAL and DRDO, but mostly HAL, has to seriously start delivering, or GoI, will be forced to look at other options and there will be consequences for HAL. Upto 6 squadrons over the next 5 years, would mean, additional nos. of MK-1 or MK-1.5!!!!

" Incidentally, the original plan was that six squadrons each of MMRCA and Tejas would replace the existing 10 Mig-21 and four MiG-27 squadrons. Parrikar, on his part, said, "In the next four to five years, we can add about six LCA squadrons if we push HAL, which I am doing."

==================


About this Gripen / F16 hype, Gripen nor F16 was not qualified technically and other basis, Their opportunity would come only when LCA fails technically and then they would be again competing against others. It is highly unlikely that their is a place for other aircraft rather this is a pressure tactic being used by Parikkar to push the project into completion and since first time Indians are experiencing such push from the top hence some :shocked: being witnessed. The present delay isn't much cause for worry since this is the last leg.
@ersakthivel, Your thoughts ..






=============

You are having too many beers, Stop it flowing over this thread ..

But Muthumanikam Matheswaran, retired air marshal and adviser (for strategy) to the chairman of HAL, said no private-sector aircraft facility could build the LCA.

India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly | Defense News | defensenews.com

"There appears to be a misconception that if ADA wishes, the LCA can be produced by the private sector. Nothing can be further from truth. The LCA cannot be produced by anybody without the major involvement of HAL." â– 

 

[Zebra]

.....About this Gripen / F16 hype, Gripen nor F16 was not qualified technically and other basis,

Their opportunity would come only when LCA fails technically and then they would be again competing against others. It is highly unlikely that their is a place for other aircraft rather this is a pressure tactic being used by Parikkar to push the project into completion and since first time Indians are experiencing such push from the top hence some :shocked: being witnessed. The present delay isn't much cause for worry since this is the last leg......

Even Rafale failed Leh test in first go, Gripen C passed it.

It is not that LCA project get fails or not, it is all about quantity of aircrafts. IAF don't have enough.

From where they gonna get it? HAL can achieve it in short time...!

The required squadron strength of IAF is based on defensive doctrine. Right now they don't even have them.

Keep one leg forward and see where are they? They desperately need more aircrafts and they need it right now.

Quality, quantity, cost and capabilities if we look at everything at once along with 'Make in India' only, then F-16 Super Viper or Gripen E/F are the best option there to keep the numbers.

Keep LCA manufacturing going at HAL's pace and get more aircrafts by other source which are also 'Make in India'.

My two cents though.

 

[rahulrds1]

LCA aerobatics

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

FOR BUILDING LIGHT FIGHTERS IN INDIA, SAAB OFFICIALS WANT GOVERNMENT-TO-GOVERNMENT DEAL


Prime Minister Narendra Modi had requested France for 36 Rafale fighters, built by Dassault Aviation, to meet the needs of Indian Air Force (IAF) for 126 fighters. Since then speculation is rising about a second global vendor that might fill the gap, building light fighters in India, alongside an Indian partner.

In interviews with state-run broadcaster Doordarshan and Hindustan Times, defence minister Manohar Parrikar had also explicitly stated the IAF urgently needs light fighters, a requirement the Rafale does not meet.

Likening light, medium and heavy fighters to a scooter, car and bus respectively, Parrikar told Hindustan Times it would be wasteful to deploy a big, heavy Rafale where a smaller fighter would do.For short-range, short-duration missions that are currently performed by the single-engine MiG-21, Parrikar told Doordarshan the IAF needs a light fighter, not the Rafale.

"Rafale is not a replacement for MiG-21. Tejas (Light Combat Aircraft) is a replacement for MiG-21. Or, if we build some other fighter under 'Make in India', that is also possible", said Parrikar.

New Delhi's growing and explicitly expressed interest in light fighters has been noted by Swedish company, Saab, which had offered its highly regarded JAS 39 Gripen E light fighter in response to the tender eventually won by Dassault's Rafale.

Even as Parrikar stressed on the need for a light fighter, Maharashtra's chief minister Devendra Fadnavis on Wednesday visited Saab's facility in Sweden, where the Gripen NG fighter is built. From there he tweeted a photo of himself in the cockpit of a Gripen and a message saying: "It was great to be at the aerospace and defence company SAAB at Linkoping, Sweden. Promised a defence manufacturing policy in Maharashtra soon."

Top Saab officials said Business Standard, even before Fadnavis, the chief ministers of UP and Gujarat-then Narendra Modi -had held discussions with Saab.

A top Saab official told Business Standard on the condition of anonymity: "If we are approached by the government of India, Saab would be happy to partner the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) or an Indian private company in not just manufacturing fighters in India, but in developing real capabilities for building a single-engine fighter for the IAF."

The National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government has not yet approached Saab directly, speaking only through the media.

However, in 2012-13, the DRDO had solicited Saab's help in co-developing and manufacturing the Tejas Mark II in India. Besides the similarities between the Tejas and the Gripen -both single-engine, light fighters - Saab had upgraded the Gripen D to the Gripen NG by replacing the General Electric F-404 engine with the more powerful GE F-414.

That is exactly what the DRDO plans to do for upgrading Tejas Mark I to Mark II specifications.

In 2012, DRDO chief VK Saraswat had sent Saab a "Request for Information", followed in January 2013 with a "Request for Proposal" inviting Saab to jointly audit the Tejas design with DRDO.

As Business Standard reported last year (June 17, 2014, " Rafale contract elusive, Eurofighter and Saab remain hopeful") Saab proposed an 8-10 month long audit of the Tejas design, after which a fresh design would be jointly finalised and a manufacturing line established with Saab's expertise.

Saab had proposed as far back in 2011 to co-develop Tejas Mark II and roll it out from a new manufacturing line within five years. Saab had then demanded 51 per cent ownership of the joint venture company that built the new Tejas.

Saab in June 2013 said, when a joint design contract seemed imminent, a new DRDO chief, Avinash Chander, took charge. He told Saab a foreign partner for co-developing the Tejas Mark II could be selected only through an international tender.

Now, Saab officials say they will insist on a government-to-government (G2G) arrangement, if they are to assist India in developing and manufacturing a light fighter in India. Under the UPA government, this would have been a deal breaker. Parrikar, however, stated on Monday: "These important decisions need to be taken at government-to-government levels."

The Saab Gripen has so far proved more popular in the international market than the Rafale. While Rafale has not yet found a single overseas buyer (Egypt and India have expressed interest), the South African, Czech, Hungarian, Thailand and British Royal Air Force have acquired the Gripen. In addition, the Brazilian, Polish and Slovakian air forces have expressed interest.

For building light fighters in India, Saab officials want government-to-government deal | Business Standard News

 

[rahulrds1]

All these LCA maneuvers shown in the image can be watch in this video. starts 52:10 onwards.

LCA part, 52:10 onwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmKlwtaWxw8

 

[akshay m]

FOC in Jne 2015 , no wonder SAAB is howling like a mad dog

http://mod.gov.in/writereaddata/AR1415.pdf

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I cannot say much about this, But like most Retd IAF personal in Media limelight are working for one or another party ..

The Gentlemen, Here works for HAL and his words are indeed for HAL , I think we have to wait more for better large infomration ..

And btw, Gripen lobby is preparing a large scale attack on Tejas by accruing many words of various Retd officials, Just like in Rafale case ..

But Muthumanikam Matheswaran, retired air marshal and adviser (for strategy) to the chairman of HAL, said no private-sector aircraft facility could build the LCA.

India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly | Defense News | defensenews.com

"There appears to be a misconception that if ADA wishes, the LCA can be produced by the private sector. Nothing can be further from truth. The LCA cannot be produced by anybody without the major involvement of HAL." â– 

 

[sgarg]

The statement of Muthumanikam Matheswaran implies HAL has IPR for many parts of Tejas. Possible. However GOI can always mandate the transfer of IPR OR a royalty to be paid to HAL. HAL cannot stop a private company from building Tejas.

All funding of Tejas work has come from GOI so HAL's stand is anyway spurious even if HAL holds IPR. However IPR is a grey area in India's public sector. Most is HAL can cause delays in setting up production in private sector.

I think more critical is policy framework that provides equal playing field to public and private sector. The rest will fall in place automatically.

 

[ersakthivel]

A post in BR by shiv mahalingam in 1998.

xtract:

"(LCA) Uses delta planform rather than close coupled canard arrangement of Gripen, Rafale, Eurofighter and Lavi/F10, or conventional aft tail arrangement of F16 and F22. Delta wing has the disadvantage of loss of control at high angle of attack due to airflow at wing root abruptly changing between straight back over wing to cutting upward and across fuselage. Mirage 2000 and Kfir/Cheetah Mirage III modifications have strakes /small canards in front of wing for this reason. Close coupled canard selected for Gripen, Rafael, Eurofighter, Lavi/F10 and aft tail selected for F22 also for same reason. These either provide alternative control surface unaffected by air flow changes or fixed canards to increase the angle of attach required to change airflow (Kfir) or strakes to induce a vortex which ensures the change will occur gradually and so not lead to loss of control (Mirage 2000). In the LCA the designers have solved the problem by using a reduced (compound) sweep at the wing root and using a wing which is high at the front (and low at the back (by tipping the fuselage forward) and with anhedral in order to avoid excessive roll stability). These features also have the beneficial effect of improving forward and sideways visibility. The effectiveness of the vertical fin is also increased by tipping the fuselage forward due to airflow being deflected onto the fin from the wing when the aircraft tries to go sideways (the F4 Phantom has downward tilted tailplane for same reason). This results in a smaller fin than the other aircraft, which saves weight and reduces lateral radar cross section.

The advantage of using a delta are reduction in weight and complexity by doing away with the canards and their actuators, which is important in a very small aircraft. The disadvantage is that in order to achieve the same maneuverability as close coupled canard or aft tail configuration, a delta must be made more unstable and so place greater demands on the fly by wire system. The Gripen designers considered a delta arrangement but rejected it on the grounds that it was too risky. The weight savings and reduced drag from elimination of canards or tailplane should give LCA a good acceleration, rate of climb and rate of turn compared with F16, Rafael, Eurofighter. Lavi/F10 even though its small size means avionics, pilot and missiles will form a greater proportion of its weight."

 

[harish.kaks]

If SAAB joins hands with an indian partner and starts its manufacturing plant of gripen in India under the make in india program , will the Tejas program gets effected because of it ?. If that is the case it should not be encouraged.

 

[tejas warrior]

If choice is between Made in India and Make in India.. its always Tejas.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Make in India cannot be replace design in India ..

The answer is and always ' Design and Made In India ' ..

 

[sgarg]

"Made in India" must not become "monopolies that churn out poor products nobody wants".

Competition is the soul of democracy. Let there be three different companies producing fighter aircrafts, two in private sector. I welcome any attempt to produce fighters in the private sector.

Nothing wrong in building Gripen in India. Let Tejas compete with Gripen on fair terms, and sell to IAF on quality and timely delivery.

 

[Pulkit]

"Made in India" must not become "monopolies that churn out poor products nobody wants".

Competition is the soul of democracy. Let there be three different companies producing fighter aircrafts, two in private sector. I welcome any attempt to produce fighters in the private sector.

Nothing wrong in building Gripen in India. Let Tejas compete with Gripen on fair terms, and sell to IAF on quality and timely delivery.

I will not be liking that.

A private firm with all its influence competing against a Public firm almost rogue.
The name and fame of HAL is known to all.

Even if a private company sets an assembly line for Tejas then also the ghost of last 3 decades will come to rise and IAF top elite will use that ghost to bend any decision away from Tejas.

Tejas is built for Indians requirements there should only be competition for the second type to meet the numbers and that too if Tejas MK2 fails to meet the deadlines which should be set realistically and with no further changes desired.

 

[Pulkit]

Make in India cannot be replace design in India ..

The answer is and always ' Design and Made In India ' ..

If choice is between Made in India and Make in India.. its always Tejas.

"Made in India" must not become "monopolies that churn out poor products nobody wants".

Competition is the soul of democracy. Let there be three different companies producing fighter aircrafts, two in private sector. I welcome any attempt to produce fighters in the private sector.

Nothing wrong in building Gripen in India. Let Tejas compete with Gripen on fair terms, and sell to IAF on quality and timely delivery.

To COnvince IAF the best way is.. "Make and Design in INDIA ,,,, but call it Foran maal".... I bet if you test two Tejas identical and label one with foran brand ,,, ithe one with the brand name will win hands down (huge margins and difference will be found)....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their is no Gripen, And lets be realistic that importing of such hardware not going to benefit India in long terms ..

:: Bharat-Rakshak.com - Indian Military News Headlines ::

^^ From the above TOI report about now or never for LCA, the below statement of Parrikar, is what makes the most sense. HAL and DRDO, but mostly HAL, has to seriously start delivering, or GoI, will be forced to look at other options and there will be consequences for HAL. Upto 6 squadrons over the next 5 years, would mean, additional nos. of MK-1 or MK-1.5!!!!

" Incidentally, the original plan was that six squadrons each of MMRCA and Tejas would replace the existing 10 Mig-21 and four MiG-27 squadrons. Parrikar, on his part, said, "In the next four to five years, we can add about six LCA squadrons if we push HAL, which I am doing."

==================


About this Gripen / F16 hype, Gripen nor F16 was not qualified technically and other basis, Their opportunity would come only when LCA fails technically and then they would be again competing against others. It is highly unlikely that their is a place for other aircraft rather this is a pressure tactic being used by Parikkar to push the project into completion and since first time Indians are experiencing such push from the top hence some :shocked: being witnessed. The present delay isn't much cause for worry since this is the last leg..

Nothing wrong in building Gripen in India. Let Tejas compete with Gripen on fair terms, and sell to IAF on quality and timely delivery.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

From Dr.Vivek Ahuja BRF


LCA vs Mirage 2000