ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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jouni

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That thing you have circled has already been redone with a smooth bump in LSP-8



I dont think tejas look that bad in the couple of photos below.




Thank god ADA didn't use the storm fighter glue!!!tejas has flown 2500 sorties and achieved 26 deg AOA and 7Gs without breaking up. SO they are using good glues I suppose.
1990 design philosophy very old!!!!!!!!!
Then what about F-22, F-35, PAKFA, and all the Euro canards? Certainly their air frame was not designed in 2000-2010 time frame as far as I know.
Well, it is not that bad in these angles. Maybe there is a gap for this kind of fighter in the market. In any case: hats of for developing it, great achievement. In some angles ( rear side quarter ) it even looks a little like Mig-21, which it is supposed to replace.
 

ersakthivel

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Well, it is not that bad in these angles. Maybe there is a gap for this kind of fighter in the market. In any case: hats of for developing it, great achievement. In some angles ( rear side quarter ) it even looks a little like Mig-21, which it is supposed to replace.
It is no gap filler.



It was only during world war two pre WVR visually cued high off bore missile age fighters had to use their STR in a series of cartwheeling dives to get behind the enemy to deliver the gun kill. Much water has flown since then.

Obvioulsy the most important thing in today's modern WVR has escaped your attention.

It is called ITR. Instantaneous Turn rate with which a fighter executes a very tight turn to fire a deadly no escape Visually cued R-73 E type missile using HMDS.


Tejas has that. And rafale still does not have a HMDS and visually cued R-73 E like combination. If india buys rafale it is proposed to be integrated at extra cost to us.


Tejas mk1 itself was supposed to have a ITR of 30 plus degrees from design. But still we dont know what is the real data as this is a classified info. But tejas has the lowest wing loading with just WVR missile config than all of the planes you have listed here. In mk1 it has a half fuel TWR of 1.07 in mk2 it is slated to go up to 1.2 very close to that of rafale and typhoon.



And we can see the same vortex generation effect of those flaps on tejas in the picture above, albeit in low res. In addition to this the naval tejasmk-2 is slated to get the same kind of LEVCONS present in PAKFA.

If the air force wants it can ask ADA to add it to IAF tejas mk-2 as well. So if we look at the two differing angles of wing's leading edge, flaps operation and highly swept outer wing leading edge and movable LEVCONS,

there are lot of similarities in PAKFA wing design and tejas wing design in applying the same concepts in delta combination to reduce drag, increase lift and increase the better handling capability at high AOA.

So the job of canards is done by these flaps with out producing significant extra wave and interference drag is obvious from the above explanation.it answers most o the questions regarding why there are no canards in tejas,

So there is no use repeatedly disparaging a product without even trying to understand the basic principles behind its design and development.

Since there is no canard wings also reach their maximum lift co efficient in their peak AOA without any restriction leading to better handling at high AOAs,

since there is no need to design the canard to stall before main wing , there by preventing the wings to realize their max lift coefficient. So over all wing efficiency improves .So a crucial dis advantage of canrds listed below is also eliminated while retaining the same vortex generation effect of canards.


SO in this very important spec tejas mk1 has no short comings and mk2 will be a leader of the class.


Also it was the IAF upgraded requirement for tejas mk1 to carry this deadly HMDS enabled high off bore visually cued no escape R73 E missile which led to detailed wing redesign in the form of FSED-phase-2(Full scale Engineering Development) which started in 2004 and lasted till 2009.


Earlier a lower weight lower launch stress R-60 was initially prescribed as close combat missile for tejas mk1 at its outer most wing station. later this was changed to heavier weight , heavier launch stress inducing R-73 E to be carried at wing tip station, which led to the FSED phase-2.SU-30 MKI also uses this same missile for close combat.


In case you know please point out which is the high off bore visually cued HMDS enabled WVR missile carried by rafale till date.

Is India aiming to boost the Rafale's firepower with Russian missiles? | Russia & India Report

"The French MICA simply doesn't have the pedigree of the missiles from the Russian stables. So the questions before the IAF are: Will the insistence on having Russian missiles on the Rafale jack up the price? And what is the tradeoff in capability if India buys French missiles?"


It is an unfortunate thing that most people don't have any understanding of the fact that tejas Specs were changed to keep up with the times and latest needs of IAF.They never bother to google a few pages to know the truth. But they start ranting that tejas is a trainer at the drop of the hat!!!!

Also rafale inception was in late 70s and it first flew in 1983. Only in 2009 its f-3 standards were delivered. Still IAF has seen the rafale ASEA only in labs and dassault has not demoed Meteor with Asea combo yet to IAF MMRCA evaluation team.

Compared to that in 2004 IAF asked for R-73 E high off bore visually cued HMDS enabled missile addition to ADA in 2004 and it was delivered before IOC-1 itself.SO parroting that tejas is a 1980s era trainer without understanding its specs were continued to be updated by IAF is simply foolish.

And saying every other fighter out there is space age is also equally foolish. All the MMRCA contenders were older in design than tejas whose design began in the 1990s with the highest percentage of composites modelled on vortex generating compound delta wing form of F-16 XL with a multi mode radar dia bigger than rafale and 4 channel all digital fly by wire relaxed Static Stability air frame with lowest wing loading possible to give a class comparable Instantaneous turn rate to fire the HMDS enabled close combat high off bore visually cued no escape missile like R-73 E.

SO with every upgrade its capacities are only going to increase. It will get the same ASEA radar that tejas mk2 is going to get.

it is also foolish to say that tejas mk2 is "in discussion"!!!! Air inlet design completed and production drawings were already distributed to shop floor for manufacturing. With a composite content of more than 60 percent and a TWR of close to 1.2 it will be as good as nay MMRCA competitor.

tejas mk2 will have a bigger ASEA radar than rafale.
ADA chief himself has officialy stated that tejas mk2 will carry interface to fire meteor missile .
tejas mk2 will have retractable refuelling probe while rafale will have age old drag inducing fixed refuelling probe .
Tejas mk2 will have more composite percentage than rafale, meaning it will be more stealthy over all.

With thousand crore each from navy and IAF tejas mk2 program started in 2009 itself.

GE has approved air inlet redesign. SInce wing loading and wing aerodynamics are going to be the same it wont require ten years of 2500 sortie flight testing like tejas mk1.

Also there will be no detailed redesign like FSED phase-2 done for tejas mk1 as most of its specs and armaments are already chosen.

Its empty weight too will not be much because other than 0.5 meter fuselage length increase nothing else is being proposed. LEVCONs are only proposed for naval version not air force version.

SO it wont take more than 4 or 5 years for it to enter into service from now.


https://htmlcdn.scribd.com/8ro7qcvb422zqom/images/4-34e7f9d24d.jpg


The above picture illustrates the same vortex effect on tejas mk1 wing form described below for rafale.SO stop your drivel that tejas is a mirage-2000 clone and trainer which you are dishing out endlessly here in this blog.SImply you are repeatedly misinforming other people without even basic knowledge and understanding of any aerodynamic principles.

This is how canards effect vortex flow over rafale wing giving it higher lift with lower AOA without drag penalty.


"Usage of tailless delta means that there is no adverse tailplane/afterbody pressure drag interference, and aircraft does not exhibit Dutch roll when travelling at high speed. However, as there is no tail to provide roll control, and control surfaces are on the wing itself, it means that wing must be stiffer, limiting wing twist and increasing possibility of wing tip stall. Launcher rail located on wing tip improves L/D ratio. Flutter and aerilon reversal are also eliminated, and due to Rafale being unstable, elevons add to lift when turning. Wings themselves are anhedral, reducing lateral stability; this was required due to Rafale's wide body and wing vertical position. Flaps and aerilons can be used to improve lift during takeoff and landing.

Canards are, as mentioned, of close-coupled configuration. This has benefits on aircraft performance in both subsonic and supersonic flight when compared to conventional delta wing or wing/tail configuration. One of reasons is that canard produces vortices which are very strong immediately behind canard itself, and get progressively weaker, but also a downwash. Properly positioned downwash creates a low pressure region on front part of the wing upper surface which has a significant contribution to lift, and also causes aircraft to be dynamically unstable, providing advantage in response to control surface inputs when compared to either stable or statically unstable configurations."


https://htmlcdn.scribd.com/8ro7qcvb422zqom/images/4-34e7f9d24d.jpg

click the link above to see how the same is effected over tejas mk1 wing by lower swept wing leading edge which produces vortices which hug along the entire wing leading edge and over most part of the upper wing leading to the achievement of higher lift at lower AOA in tejas without the canard weight penalty, drag penalty and RCS penalty.

The picture below shows the vortex effect in real flight.




[url]https://htmlcdn.scribd.com/8ro7qcvb422zqom/images/4-34e7f9d24d.jpg[/url]

The above picture illustrates the same vortex effect on tejas mk1 wing form described below for rafale.SO stop your drivel that tejas is a mirage-2000 clone and trainer which you are dishing out endlessly here in this blog.SImply you are repeatedly misinforming other people without even basic knowledge and understanding of any aerodynamic principles. This is how canards effect vortex flow over rafale wing giving it higher lift with lower AOA without drag penalty. "Usage of tailless delta means that there is no adverse tailplane/afterbody pressure drag interference, and aircraft does not exhibit Dutch roll when travelling at high speed. However, as there is no tail to provide roll control, and control surfaces are on the wing itself, it means that wing must be stiffer, limiting wing twist and increasing possibility of wing tip stall. Launcher rail located on wing tip improves L/D ratio. Flutter and aerilon reversal are also eliminated, and due to Rafale being unstable, elevons add to lift when turning. Wings themselves are anhedral, reducing lateral stability; this was required due to Rafale's wide body and wing vertical position. Flaps and aerilons can be used to improve lift during takeoff and landing. Canards are, as mentioned, of close-coupled configuration.

This has benefits on aircraft performance in both subsonic and supersonic flight when compared to conventional delta wing or wing/tail configuration. One of reasons is that canard produces vortices which are very strong immediately behind canard itself, and get progressively weaker, but also a downwash. Properly positioned downwash creates a low pressure region on front part of the wing upper surface which has a significant contribution to lift, and also causes aircraft to be dynamically unstable, providing advantage in response to control surface inputs when compared to either stable or statically unstable configurations."

[url]https://htmlcdn.scribd.com/8ro7qcvb422zqom/images/4-34e7f9d24d.jpg[/url] click the link above to see how the same is effected over tejas mk1 wing by lower swept wing leading edge which produces vortices which hug along the entire wing leading edge and over most part of the upper wing leading to the achievement of higher lift at lower AOA in tejas without the canard weight penalty, drag penalty and RCS penalty. The picture below shows the vortex effect in real flight.
 
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ersakthivel

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Well, it is not that bad in these angles. Maybe there is a gap for this kind of fighter in the market. In any case: hats of for developing it, great achievement. In some angles ( rear side quarter ) it even looks a little like Mig-21, which it is supposed to replace.
It is no gap filler.



It was only during world war two pre WVR visually cued high off bore missile age fighters had to use their STR in a series of cartwheeling dives to get behind the enemy to deliver the gun kill. Much water has flown since then.

Obvioulsy the most important thing in today's modern WVR has escaped your attention.

It is called ITR. Instantaneous Turn rate with which a fighter executes a very tight turn to fire a deadly no escape Visually cued R-73 E type missile using HMDS.


Tejas has that. And rafale still does not have a HMDS and visually cued R-73 E like combination. If india buys rafale it is proposed to be integrated at extra cost to us.


Tejas mk1 itself was supposed to have a ITR of 30 plus degrees from design. But still we dont know what is the real data as this is a classified info. But tejas has the lowest wing loading with just WVR missile config than all of the planes you have listed here. In mk1 it has a half fuel TWR of 1.07 in mk2 it is slated to go up to 1.2 very close to that of rafale and typhoon.


SO in this very important spec tejas mk1 has no short comings and mk2 will be a leader of the class.


Also it was the IAF upgraded requirement for tejas mk1 to carry this deadly HMDS enabled high off bore visually cued no escape R73 E missile which led to detailed wing redesign in the form of FSED-phase-2(Full scale Engineering Development) which started in 2004 and lasted till 2009.


Earlier a lower weight lower launch stress R-60 was initially prescribed as close combat missile for tejas mk1 at its outer most wing station. later this was changed to heavier weight , heavier launch stress inducing R-73 E to be carried at wing tip station, which led to the FSED phase-2.SU-30 MKI also uses this same missile for close combat.


In case you know please point out which is the high off bore visually cued HMDS enabled WVR missile carried by rafale till date.

Is India aiming to boost the Rafale's firepower with Russian missiles? | Russia & India Report

"The French MICA simply doesn't have the pedigree of the missiles from the Russian stables. So the questions before the IAF are: Will the insistence on having Russian missiles on the Rafale jack up the price? And what is the tradeoff in capability if India buys French missiles?"


It is an unfortunate thing that most people don't have any understanding of the fact that tejas Specs were changed to keep up with the times and latest needs of IAF.They never bother to google a few pages to know the truth. But they start ranting that tejas is a trainer at the drop of the hat!!!!

Also rafale inception was in late 70s and it first flew in 1983. Only in 2009 its f-3 standards were delivered. Still IAF has seen the rafale ASEA only in labs and dassault has not demoed Meteor with Asea combo yet to IAF MMRCA evaluation team.

Compared to that in 2004 IAF asked for R-73 E high off bore visually cued HMDS enabled missile addition to ADA in 2004 and it was delivered before IOC-1 itself.SO parroting that tejas is a 1980s era trainer without understanding its specs were continued to be updated by IAF is simply foolish.

And saying every other fighter out there is space age is also equally foolish. All the MMRCA contenders were older in design than tejas whose design began in the 1990s with the highest percentage of composites modelled on vortex generating compound delta wing form of F-16 XL with a multi mode radar dia bigger than rafale and 4 channel all digital fly by wire relaxed Static Stability air frame with lowest wing loading possible to give a class comparable Instantaneous turn rate to fire the HMDS enabled close combat high off bore visually cued no escape missile like R-73 E.

SO with every upgrade its capacities are only going to increase. It will get the same ASEA radar that tejas mk2 is going to get.

it is also foolish to say that tejas mk2 is "in discussion"!!!! Air inlet design completed and production drawings were already distributed to shop floor for manufacturing. With a composite content of more than 60 percent and a TWR of close to 1.2 it will be as good as nay MMRCA competitor.

tejas mk2 will have a bigger ASEA radar than rafale.
ADA chief himself has officialy stated that tejas mk2 will carry interface to fire meteor missile .
tejas mk2 will have retractable refuelling probe while rafale will have age old drag inducing fixed refuelling probe .
Tejas mk2 will have more composite percentage than rafale, meaning it will be more stealthy over all.

With thousand crore each from navy and IAF tejas mk2 program started in 2009 itself.

GE has approved air inlet redesign. SInce wing loading and wing aerodynamics are going to be the same it wont require ten years of 2500 sortie flight testing like tejas mk1.

Also there will be no detailed redesign like FSED phase-2 done for tejas mk1 as most of its specs and armaments are already chosen.

Its empty weight too will not be much because other than 0.5 meter fuselage length increase nothing else is being proposed. LEVCONs are only proposed for naval version not air force version.

SO it wont take more than 4 or 5 years for it to enter into service from now.
 

SajeevJino

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From the Chief of Air Staff

IS: Could you give a detailed update on the indigenous LCA(Tejas) programme? When would the aircraft be in a position to
achieve full-fledged FOC (Final Operational Clearance)? How will
the issue of the first 40 LCAs fitted with the underpowered GE 404
IN engines be sorted out in the long run? Will these be retro
modified to Mk II standards or the IAF would remain saddled with
Mk Is through their entire service life? Could you also give details
of the LCA Mk II aircraft are envisaged for procurement by the
IAF?

CAS: The LCA achieved IOC in December 2013 and this paved the
way for induction of the LCA in IOC configuration in IAF. HAL is
likely to deliver the first LCA in 2014 and IAF will be in a position
to form the first LCA squadron only after receipt of at least four
LCA from HAL, which is likely by the third quarter of 2015. The
FOC of LCA is scheduled in December 2014. The first 40 LCA
would fly with GE 404 IN engine. The LCA Mk II would be equipped
with GE 414 INS6 engine with improved performance. Preliminary
Design Review of LCA Mk II was conducted. Four Squadrons of
LCA Mk II are envisaged for procurement.
..:: India Strategic ::. IAF: Exclusive Interview: Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha
 

ersakthivel

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The last Jet-Engine laugh - Mumbai Mirror

============================================================


January 4, 2001 was a cloudless Thursday. The Met office forecast light winds over Bangalore. In the 39 years that he had spent as a commissioned officer of the Indian Air Force (IAF), Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar had seldom seen conditions better than these to fly a fighter jet.

The phone in his home rang at 6.30 am. The man on the other end of the line, Dr Kota Harinarayana, Programme Director of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, said the multi-role fighter was being towed to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) runway after final pre-flight checks. Air Marshal Rajkumar hurried to the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC), which he had set up in 1994 at the HAL airport for the express purpose of evaluating the LCA.

He was met by Air Chief Marshal AY Tipnis, who, as the head of the Indian Air Force, had recently overseen sorties deployed to take out high-altitude positions held by Pakistan-backed insurgents in Drass, Kargil and Batalik sectors on the Indian side of the Line of Control. Dr VK Aatre, scientific adviser to Defence Minister George Fernandes and Dr Harinarayana were among others gathered in the test centre. The flight briefing began at 8 am.

Two hours later, on the airstrip outside, Air Marshal Rajkumar, who was deputed by the IAF to help develop the aircraft, walked with Wing Commander Rajiv Kothiyal to the narrow white band of paint known as the flight line, where the LCA was parked. "It was all white as prototype aircrafts are usually painted in a high visibility paint scheme for ease of tracking with optical trackers," Air Marshal Rajkumar, who retired as the Programme Director of the LCA project in 2001, recounted in his 2007 book The Tejas Story: The Light Combat Aircraft Project. "It looked beautiful and had IAF roundels on its wings and the tricolour flash on the tail fin. The tail number was KH 2001 in honour of Dr Kota Harinarayana, and the year of the first flight."

At 10.18 am, Wing Commander Kothiyal, a 42-year-old graduate of the Unites States Air Force Test Pilots School, raised the LCA's nose wheel, angling the country's first indigenous fighter jet into the air.

As IAF's records have it, the LCA was conceived in 1981, when Air Chief Marshal Idris Hasan Latif, vexed by the unreliable Ajeet ground attack aircraft flown by the Air Force and anticipating the need to replace the ageing Russian MiG 21 fighters, which he determined would have to be eased out of service in the 90s, had several conversations with his prime minister, Indira Gandhi, urging her to constitute a search committee to recommend a substitute.

According to a senior aerospace and robotics scientist with intimate knowledge of the proceedings, the panel, headed by Dr Sitaram Rao Valluri, Director of National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), which has its offices in Bangalore, gathered at regular intervals but was unable to arrive at a consensus. "Dr Raja Ramanna, who was the Scientific Adviser to R Venkataraman, the Defence Minister at the time, was quite frustrated with the lack of progress and looked for a way to hasten the process," the scientist told Mumbai Mirror.

Dr VS Arunachalam, the 46-year-old Director of the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory in Hyderabad, who had been moved to Delhi to take Dr Ramanna's place as Venkataraman's confidant in 1982, was asked to precipitate matters. "I began to develop a few ideas that summer," he said. "It soon became apparent to me that we would have to build a fighter aircraft from scratch and not go shopping for one."

Dr Arunachalam assembled a presentation to bolster his case for an indigenous solution and made the pitch to Gandhi and Venkataraman, arguing for Bangalore as the base of operations. "There were many sceptics at the time, but Venkataraman was convinced," he said - privately, those critical of the project, which was officially denominated the LCA, began to refer to it as Last Chance for Arunachalam.

Despite the resistance, a budget of Rs 500 crore was sanctioned for the LCA in 1983. "It is to Arunachalam's everlasting credit that he convinced the government to fund the project," Air Marshal Rajkumar told this paper.

What the scientific adviser did next was unusual by the standards of accepted practice. Instead of fashioning a typical defence research laboratory peopled with scientists recruited for the specific purpose of creating a multirole fighter jet, Arunachalam set up a cooperative society of sorts. "It might have seemed unconventional - (Krishnaswamy) Raosaheb (the Cabinet Secretary) even took me aside and said, 'you're creating a society for bombers and fighters,' - but there was no doubt in my mind that this was the method to adopt," Arunachalam said.

The division that was created, named the Aeronautical Development Agency, would serve as an orchestra conductor - drawing on the depth of scientific resources available at the various Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) labs in the city, incubating micro departments within larger host laboratories, and generally fostering a massively complex collaborative exercise that spanned Bangalore and reached research bureaus in several parts of the country. "Bangalore had so many venerable institutions - NAL, HAL, Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) - so it was evident that all the talent we needed was resident here," he said.

The IAF, however, wasn't entirely convinced the gambit would work. "The scientists who were deputed to work on the LCA had never been near an aircraft of this sort before, but they projected confidence," an IAF pilot associated with the project said. "This was a confidence born out of ignorance." He maintained that the air force was a reluctant client, preferring instead to set out into the market to look for a fighter jet.

"We were also unconvinced by the ridiculous timeframe that was being touted - five years," he added. Because it was evident that the DRDO and government were unflinching in their commitment to building the LCA, the pilot said the IAF thought it best to make the most of the situation by proposing a compromise. Srinivasapuram Krishnaswamy, a distinguished airman who would be appointed the country's Air Chief Marshal in 2001, proposed that the aircraft be built as a Technology Development project.

"Four critical aspects would be tested during the build - the creation of a glass cockpit (in which all instrumentation is digital), engineering a fly-bywire system (electronically controlling the aircraft), building a composite airframe (out of multiple materials) and fashioning microprocessor mounted systems (driven by a computer chip)," explained Air Marshal Rajkumar.


.
SO the TD-1 that flew was just a tech demo as per IAF's insistence.
Only after it proved the techs in 2001. Actual fighter development has started.
That explains the time frame of tejas development. If at all it was built as limited serial production models from word go with full budget it would have had a much shorter time frame.
Since IAF was not convinced about that route , the longer timeframe TDs first , and PVs, LSPs later model of development was used.
Of the 15 major Bangalore institutions that arrayed themselves around the LCA programme, NAL, which was set up in 1960 as the nation's second largest aerospace firm, in the Mysore Maharajah's stables on Jayamahal Road (it moved to its headquarters in Kodihalli in the mid-60s), played a pivotal role in addressing two of these aspects. "Apart from the airframe, NAL developed the LCA's flight control systems," said Professor Roddam Narasimha, former director of the establishment. Although Dr Arunachalam came to represent the public face of the LCA project in 1983, very few people outside a small tribe of scientists know that Professor Narasimha chaired the first meeting at which elemental aspects of an indigenous light fighter jet were discussed, at the offices of NAL, in 1979.

It isn't entirely accurate to describe the LCA as a home-grown bird. While the idea was birthed in a conference facility in Bangalore, approved in New Delhi's South Block and built and tested in and around Bangalore's HAL facility, several foreign consultants assumed critical roles in its development. "General Electric (GE) supplied us 11 engines and British Aerospace and Martin Marietta helped with airframe integration," a test pilot associated with the LCA's build said. "And in 1985, Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, who had become friendly with US President Ronald Reagan elicited a promise from the Americans that the Pentagon's facility in Wright-Paterson Air Force Base, Ohio would help build the fly-by-wire systems. Apart from this, Dassault Systems (a French company) and Lockheed Martin too were roped in to create the avionics. In fact, a team of avionics experts from DRDO were flown to Lockheed Martin's offices in Binghamton, New York, to work with American engineers to develop the software."

It was in 1998, close to a decade after several such collaborative efforts were established and Phase 1 of the undertaking was apace, that Indian ingenuity was really tested. On May 11 and 13, Atal Behari Vajpayee's National Democratic Alliance government ordered the detonation of one fusion and five fission devices at the Pokhran Test Range, Rajasthan. Two months later, after an incensed US administration declared punitive sanctions against India, the avionics engineers were evicted from Lockheed Martin's New York facility, with the LCA's fly-by-wire system far from complete. "But they came back home and built the whole thing themselves," said Dr Arunachalam. "We'd also managed to keep one of the 11 GE engines," added Air Marshal Rajkumar. "Our scientists stripped the thing down to its bones and reverse engineered it from scratch."

In the next two years, the flight controls were developed, hardware and software married, verification and validation of the software completed and "hardware-in-the-loop testing achieved" - in which the actual physical controls are evaluated on a ground-based frame. The aircraft was now ready for taxi trails. "We did 17 of those," recalled Air Marshal Rajkumar. "We began with a 75 kmph run and eventually went up to 200 kmph (the aircraft begins to lift off between 250 and 270 kmph)." On December 24, 2000, he notified the programme director that the LCA was ready to fly.

On the Thursday of the first trial flight, Squadron Leader Suneet Krishna watched from the cockpit of a Mirage 2000 chase aircraft as the LCA lifted off on one of 12 short trips in Phase 1 of testing - two of the French planes tailed the jet that morning, one piloted by Air Chief Marshal Tipnis and Wing Commander Tarun Bannerjee and the other by Wing Commander Raghunath Nambiar and Squadron Leader Krishna. By 2002, Krishna would find himself tugging at the joystick of the light combat aircraft for the first time - in the next two years he would fly over a 100 flights, each lasting between 20 minutes and an hour.

On May 4, 2003, Vajpayee officially baptised the aircraft as Tejas.

"I left the programme in 2004 and returned in 2009," said Krishna, who is now a Group Captain. "By the time I came back much of the changes that were under development had been incorporated. We flew it with all sorts of weapons on board. In 2011, we dropped the first laser guided bomb from the Tejas." Since then, Group Captain Krishna has flown the fighter over 400 times, the most by any test pilot at the NFTC.

Two years later, in December, Tejas received Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) from the IAF, meaning it was ready to be flown by air force pilots, with limited weapons on board. On September 30 this year, the first of 20 production aircraft with IOC certification was piloted by HAL's chief test pilot, Air Commodore K A Muthanna. "The aircraft is now ready for IAF operations," said HAL Chairman Dr R K Thyagi. Several scientists gathered at the event were of the opinion that Tejas could enter service by March 2015, after it receives Final Operational Clearance in December this year.

The IAF, however, isn't as sanguine. "Some of the doubts that sprung up in 1983 still persist," a former combat pilot who is familiar with the project said. "The Air Force has asked for changes to be made to the cockpit and for some additional weapons systems to be included in the specs." On October 4, a television channel, citing defence ministry sources, claimed that the IAF expects the first Tejas "squadron to be available by 2017-18."

Professor Narasimha, who was emphatic in his endorsement of the project - "I don't think there has ever been a more exciting time for aeronautics in India," he said - was just as forceful in putting on record his chagrin about the delay in the IAF inducting the Tejas into its fleet. "There is a much deeper problem here," he said. "What is singularly lacking in this country is a strategic vision. It's a pity that we haven't created a single, overarching agency to resolve all these issues.

This would have prevented such delays. I can tell you with confidence that the LCA is ready to fly for the Indian Air Force."




============================================================

so the delays stem from the lack of single overarching agency responsible for induction of this fighter.
 
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ersakthivel

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Despite the repeated attempts by the reporter to get IAF chief to attest his bogey that tejas mk1 is under powered IAF chief has refused to oblige.
Attempts of the reporter to float the kite that," LCA with GE-404 is under powered ,says IAF chief", couldn't succeed.

If Tejas with GE-404 is under powered, then every other fighter in IAF barring Mig-29 is chronically under powered and unfit for service.

NOT A SINGLE FIGHTER IN PLAF HAS A HIGHER TWR (in half fuel weight and with just two wing tip WVR missiles, the config under which they enter close combat.) than Tejas mk1.


Guys parading as defence jour-analists don't even know this basic fact!!!
 
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ersakthivel

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The last jet-engine laugh - Bangalore Mirror
The LCA's nuts and bolts Height .................13.2 m Span ....................8.2 m Max speed ...1,700 kmph Max weight .......8,500 kg Max altitude .....1,6400 m Range .................840 km
Range-840 Kms?

It also says cost as 156 crores per piece.

The IAF, however, isn't as sanguine. "Some of the doubts that sprung up in 1983 still persist," a former combat pilot who is familiar with the project said. "The air force has asked for changes to be made to the cockpit and for some additional weapons systems to be included in the specs." On October 4, a television channel, citing defence ministry sources, claimed that the IAF expects the first Tejas "squadron to be available by 2017-18."
IAF still asking for changes, But then why did so many senior IAF arimarshals in Vayu startpost conference repeatedly said that IAf has asked no changes in tejas from 1984,and it still does not meet the 1984 ASR?
 
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lcafanboy

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HAL is
likely to deliver the first LCA in 2014 and IAF will be in a position
to form the first LCA squadron only after receipt of at least four
LCA from HAL, which is likely by the third quarter of 2015.


WE SHOULD CHANGE HAL'S NAME TO HINDUSTAN AERONAUTICS LIARS. THEY TOLD THAT 4 TEJAS WILL BE DELIVERED BY MARCH 2014 NOW THEY ARE PLANNING TO DELIVER BY 3RD QUARTER OF 2015 THAT IS AROUND SEP 2015. THEY DON'T HAVE SENSE OF URGENCY AND PROVIDE FALSE COMMITMENTS WHEN PUSHED TO WALLS. THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESPONSIBLE AND IF NEED BE PUT BEHIND BARS FOR FAILING TO DELIVER ON TIME AND TELLING THE TRUTH TO THE NATION. GOI SHOULD BRING ON TABLE ALL STAKE HOLDERS LIKE IAF, HAL, ADA, DRDO AND FORCE THEM TO COORDINATE AND ADHERE TO TIMELINES. IF IAF IS FACING FIGHTER SHORTAGES THEN INSTEAD OF CRYING IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA SHOULD ORDER AT LEAST 6 SQUARDENS OF TEJAS MK1S WHICH IS COSTING LESS THAN MIRAGE UPGRADES. THESE MK1S CAN BE USED AGAINST PAF WHICH DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO THROW AT IAF. HAL SHOULD BE MADE TO DELIVER AT LEAST 24 TO 30 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. AND WHEN MK2 ARRIVES PRODUCTION RATES SHOULD FURTHER BE INCREASED TO 48 TO 60 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. MK1S THEN CAN BE EXPORTED TO FRIENDLY NATIONS. THIS WILL ALSO MAKE DASSAULT AND OTHER AIRCRAFT SUPPLIERS JITTERY AND WILL BE FORCED TO REDUCE THEIR COST FURTHER. IAF IS ACTING AGAINST THE INTEREST OF COUNTRY. TOP BRASS IS BUSY FILLING THEIR POCKETS. MODI SHOULD MAKE THEM COME TO SENSES.
 

jouni

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It is no gap filler.



It was only during world war two pre WVR visually cued high off bore missile age fighters had to use their STR in a series of cartwheeling dives to get behind the enemy to deliver the gun kill. Much water has flown since then.

Obvioulsy the most important thing in today's modern WVR has escaped your attention.

It is called ITR. Instantaneous Turn rate with which a fighter executes a very tight turn to fire a deadly no escape Visually cued R-73 E type missile using HMDS.


Tejas has that. And rafale still does not have a HMDS and visually cued R-73 E like combination. If india buys rafale it is proposed to be integrated at extra cost to us.


Tejas mk1 itself was supposed to have a ITR of 30 plus degrees from design. But still we dont know what is the real data as this is a classified info. But tejas has the lowest wing loading with just WVR missile config than all of the planes you have listed here. In mk1 it has a half fuel TWR of 1.07 in mk2 it is slated to go up to 1.2 very close to that of rafale and typhoon.


SO in this very important spec tejas mk1 has no short comings and mk2 will be a leader of the class.


Also it was the IAF upgraded requirement for tejas mk1 to carry this deadly HMDS enabled high off bore visually cued no escape R73 E missile which led to detailed wing redesign in the form of FSED-phase-2(Full scale Engineering Development) which started in 2004 and lasted till 2009.


Earlier a lower weight lower launch stress R-60 was initially prescribed as close combat missile for tejas mk1 at its outer most wing station. later this was changed to heavier weight , heavier launch stress inducing R-73 E to be carried at wing tip station, which led to the FSED phase-2.SU-30 MKI also uses this same missile for close combat.


In case you know please point out which is the high off bore visually cued HMDS enabled WVR missile carried by rafale till date.

Is India aiming to boost the Rafale's firepower with Russian missiles? | Russia & India Report

"The French MICA simply doesn't have the pedigree of the missiles from the Russian stables. So the questions before the IAF are: Will the insistence on having Russian missiles on the Rafale jack up the price? And what is the tradeoff in capability if India buys French missiles?"


It is an unfortunate thing that most people don't have any understanding of the fact that tejas Specs were changed to keep up with the times and latest needs of IAF.They never bother to google a few pages to know the truth. But they start ranting that tejas is a trainer at the drop of the hat!!!!

Also rafale inception was in late 70s and it first flew in 1983. Only in 2009 its f-3 standards were delivered. Still IAF has seen the rafale ASEA only in labs and dassault has not demoed Meteor with Asea combo yet to IAF MMRCA evaluation team.

Compared to that in 2004 IAF asked for R-73 E high off bore visually cued HMDS enabled missile addition to ADA in 2004 and it was delivered before IOC-1 itself.SO parroting that tejas is a 1980s era trainer without understanding its specs were continued to be updated by IAF is simply foolish.

And saying every other fighter out there is space age is also equally foolish. All the MMRCA contenders were older in design than tejas whose design began in the 1990s with the highest percentage of composites modelled on vortex generating compound delta wing form of F-16 XL with a multi mode radar dia bigger than rafale and 4 channel all digital fly by wire relaxed Static Stability air frame with lowest wing loading possible to give a class comparable Instantaneous turn rate to fire the HMDS enabled close combat high off bore visually cued no escape missile like R-73 E.

SO with every upgrade its capacities are only going to increase. It will get the same ASEA radar that tejas mk2 is going to get.

it is also foolish to say that tejas mk2 is "in discussion"!!!! Air inlet design completed and production drawings were already distributed to shop floor for manufacturing. With a composite content of more than 60 percent and a TWR of close to 1.2 it will be as good as nay MMRCA competitor.

tejas mk2 will have a bigger ASEA radar than rafale.
ADA chief himself has officialy stated that tejas mk2 will carry interface to fire meteor missile .
tejas mk2 will have retractable refuelling probe while rafale will have age old drag inducing fixed refuelling probe .
Tejas mk2 will have more composite percentage than rafale, meaning it will be more stealthy over all.

With thousand crore each from navy and IAF tejas mk2 program started in 2009 itself.

GE has approved air inlet redesign. SInce wing loading and wing aerodynamics are going to be the same it wont require ten years of 2500 sortie flight testing like tejas mk1.

Also there will be no detailed redesign like FSED phase-2 done for tejas mk1 as most of its specs and armaments are already chosen.

Its empty weight too will not be much because other than 0.5 meter fuselage length increase nothing else is being proposed. LEVCONs are only proposed for naval version not air force version.

SO it wont take more than 4 or 5 years for it to enter into service from now.


You must make Rajeev Suri your marketing guru and sell it to FiAF, we need new fighter from 2025 onwards.
 

pmaitra

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HAL is
likely to deliver the first LCA in 2014 and IAF will be in a position
to form the first LCA squadron only after receipt of at least four
LCA from HAL, which is likely by the third quarter of 2015.


WE SHOULD CHANGE HAL'S NAME TO HINDUSTAN AERONAUTICS LIARS. THEY TOLD THAT 4 TEJAS WILL BE DELIVERED BY MARCH 2014 NOW THEY ARE PLANNING TO DELIVER BY 3RD QUARTER OF 2015 THAT IS AROUND SEP 2015. THEY DON'T HAVE SENSE OF URGENCY AND PROVIDE FALSE COMMITMENTS WHEN PUSHED TO WALLS. THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESPONSIBLE AND IF NEED BE PUT BEHIND BARS FOR FAILING TO DELIVER ON TIME AND TELLING THE TRUTH TO THE NATION. GOI SHOULD BRING ON TABLE ALL STAKE HOLDERS LIKE IAF, HAL, ADA, DRDO AND FORCE THEM TO COORDINATE AND ADHERE TO TIMELINES. IF IAF IS FACING FIGHTER SHORTAGES THEN INSTEAD OF CRYING IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA SHOULD ORDER AT LEAST 6 SQUARDENS OF TEJAS MK1S WHICH IS COSTING LESS THAN MIRAGE UPGRADES. THESE MK1S CAN BE USED AGAINST PAF WHICH DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO THROW AT IAF. HAL SHOULD BE MADE TO DELIVER AT LEAST 24 TO 30 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. AND WHEN MK2 ARRIVES PRODUCTION RATES SHOULD FURTHER BE INCREASED TO 48 TO 60 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. MK1S THEN CAN BE EXPORTED TO FRIENDLY NATIONS. THIS WILL ALSO MAKE DASSAULT AND OTHER AIRCRAFT SUPPLIERS JITTERY AND WILL BE FORCED TO REDUCE THEIR COST FURTHER. IAF IS ACTING AGAINST THE INTEREST OF COUNTRY. TOP BRASS IS BUSY FILLING THEIR POCKETS. MODI SHOULD MAKE THEM COME TO SENSES.
Relevant to the post: A Bit of Advice for People Who Always Write in All Caps | Fab After Forty
 

Zebra

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HAL is
likely to deliver the first LCA in 2014 and IAF will be in a position
to form the first LCA squadron only after receipt of at least four
LCA from HAL, which is likely by the third quarter of 2015.


WE SHOULD CHANGE HAL'S NAME TO HINDUSTAN AERONAUTICS LIARS. THEY TOLD THAT 4 TEJAS WILL BE DELIVERED BY MARCH 2014 NOW THEY ARE PLANNING TO DELIVER BY 3RD QUARTER OF 2015 THAT IS AROUND SEP 2015. THEY DON'T HAVE SENSE OF URGENCY AND PROVIDE FALSE COMMITMENTS WHEN PUSHED TO WALLS. THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESPONSIBLE AND IF NEED BE PUT BEHIND BARS FOR FAILING TO DELIVER ON TIME AND TELLING THE TRUTH TO THE NATION. GOI SHOULD BRING ON TABLE ALL STAKE HOLDERS LIKE IAF, HAL, ADA, DRDO AND FORCE THEM TO COORDINATE AND ADHERE TO TIMELINES. IF IAF IS FACING FIGHTER SHORTAGES THEN INSTEAD OF CRYING IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA SHOULD ORDER AT LEAST 6 SQUARDENS OF TEJAS MK1S WHICH IS COSTING LESS THAN MIRAGE UPGRADES. THESE MK1S CAN BE USED AGAINST PAF WHICH DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO THROW AT IAF. HAL SHOULD BE MADE TO DELIVER AT LEAST 24 TO 30 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. AND WHEN MK2 ARRIVES PRODUCTION RATES SHOULD FURTHER BE INCREASED TO 48 TO 60 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. MK1S THEN CAN BE EXPORTED TO FRIENDLY NATIONS. THIS WILL ALSO MAKE DASSAULT AND OTHER AIRCRAFT SUPPLIERS JITTERY AND WILL BE FORCED TO REDUCE THEIR COST FURTHER. IAF IS ACTING AGAINST THE INTEREST OF COUNTRY. TOP BRASS IS BUSY FILLING THEIR POCKETS. MODI SHOULD MAKE THEM COME TO SENSES.
Sir,

HAL is a state owned company and works under MoD.

They take MoD's instructions. That means if MoD says do it / don't do it, then they have to follow it. No matter what.

Now a question here in Tejas case, IAF chief is happy to receive Tejas earlier?

Can he announce it publicly that he is happy to receive Tejas, if HAL deliver aircrafts earlier!
 

sgarg

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Let us not jump to conclusions about delivery of SP1-SP4.
4 aircrafts are to be delivered by March 2015. So let us wait and see.
 

ersakthivel

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HAL is
likely to deliver the first LCA in 2014 and IAF will be in a position
to form the first LCA squadron only after receipt of at least four
LCA from HAL, which is likely by the third quarter of 2015.


WE SHOULD CHANGE HAL'S NAME TO HINDUSTAN AERONAUTICS LIARS. THEY TOLD THAT 4 TEJAS WILL BE DELIVERED BY MARCH 2014 NOW THEY ARE PLANNING TO DELIVER BY 3RD QUARTER OF 2015 THAT IS AROUND SEP 2015. THEY DON'T HAVE SENSE OF URGENCY AND PROVIDE FALSE COMMITMENTS WHEN PUSHED TO WALLS. THEY SHOULD BE MADE RESPONSIBLE AND IF NEED BE PUT BEHIND BARS FOR FAILING TO DELIVER ON TIME AND TELLING THE TRUTH TO THE NATION. GOI SHOULD BRING ON TABLE ALL STAKE HOLDERS LIKE IAF, HAL, ADA, DRDO AND FORCE THEM TO COORDINATE AND ADHERE TO TIMELINES. IF IAF IS FACING FIGHTER SHORTAGES THEN INSTEAD OF CRYING IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA SHOULD ORDER AT LEAST 6 SQUARDENS OF TEJAS MK1S WHICH IS COSTING LESS THAN MIRAGE UPGRADES. THESE MK1S CAN BE USED AGAINST PAF WHICH DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO THROW AT IAF. HAL SHOULD BE MADE TO DELIVER AT LEAST 24 TO 30 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. AND WHEN MK2 ARRIVES PRODUCTION RATES SHOULD FURTHER BE INCREASED TO 48 TO 60 FIGHTERS PER YEAR. MK1S THEN CAN BE EXPORTED TO FRIENDLY NATIONS. THIS WILL ALSO MAKE DASSAULT AND OTHER AIRCRAFT SUPPLIERS JITTERY AND WILL BE FORCED TO REDUCE THEIR COST FURTHER. IAF IS ACTING AGAINST THE INTEREST OF COUNTRY. TOP BRASS IS BUSY FILLING THEIR POCKETS. MODI SHOULD MAKE THEM COME TO SENSES.
You should file an RTI to know how much money was allocated by all the stake holders to build a production line for just 40 tejas mk1 fighters and when it was released.
 

ersakthivel

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Sir,

HAL is a state owned company and works under MoD.

They take MoD's instructions. That means if MoD says do it / don't do it, then they have to follow it. No matter what.

Now a question here in Tejas case, IAF chief is happy to receive Tejas earlier?

Can he announce it publicly that he is happy to receive Tejas, if HAL deliver aircrafts earlier!
present IAF chief is the only one who hasn't attacked tejas stringently welcome change from mig-21++ on IOC-1 -P.V .Naik days,
 

sgarg

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present IAF chief is the only one who hasn't attacked tejas stringently welcome change from mig-21++ on IOC-1 -P.V .Naik days,
That is due to change in government. Congressi are notorious for corruption in defence deals.

You must just at look at the size of the packet - 10% of a deal in billions is a lot of money.

It seems outwardly that forces are free from politics. The fact is far from it, specially at the top.

The corruption is systemic. In a corrupt system, only corrupt officers are promoted. Honest officers are sidelined.

There is absolutely no logic to prefer an imported equipment over an Indian made one, except if there are other motives.

However we must remember that this state of affairs afflicts a large part of our society. The love of money is very deep. The "service to nation" is a slogan that is often uttered without any actual belief.

I think LCA Tejas will happen, no matter what. This country got its independence despite British and British lackeys trying every trick in the book. This aircraft is the destiny of Indian Air Force.
 
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.guys I come to know that hal had already fitted refueling probe to one of its tejas LSP (most probably LSP 8).does any body have any additional info about this????
 

sgarg

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The key is to build indian designed indian made defence equipment.

I am very happy to see Pinaka and LCA and Prahar battlefield missile. These are the weapon systems that will win future wars.

The Arjun tank has much higher firepower than other tanks in Army's inventory. This is the tank that can punch through enemy's defences.

The key is the ecosystem that supports these weapons. The spares are made inside the country. The damaged equipment can be repaired. This makes a huge difference in wartime.

Now Dhanush howitzer is being made. This will go a long way to improve firepower of artillery units.

Only heavy weapons can keep the peace when enemy realizes that it is impossible for it to fight a war with India. The equipment must be backed with ideology and manpower.

Ideology is also very important in war. Most people have to be won by thought and reason. It is impossible to win a whole population just by violence.
 

sgarg

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.guys I come to know that hal had already fitted refueling probe to one of its tejas LSP (most probably LSP 8).does any body have any additional info about this????
Then this must be the aircraft they are bringing up for FOC. Try to find if they changed the radar too.
 
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