ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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Jagdish58

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feature on channel TV-9- called "Tejas bharthavane".

Any one who knows kannada can please post , what is being said in the commentary,

Where are our english national noose guys ? Running behind Lallu and Nitish all; the time.

too busy to do such a feature.

Why the hell the Desi Dork Media planted news guys cant do a report like this?

General breefing on LCA tejas from history & how each indian should be proud on LCA since it is home grown child

They have even had a walk through in production facility where SP1 is getting ready , really good documentary

and she talks about HAL confirming that some Asian country without naming them have enquired on LCA Trainer version :thumb:

It would have been if NDTV or TIMES NOW or others had done such type of documentary but as you said they are behind whom sharukh khan dances & how many GF Dig Vijay singh has :facepalm:
 
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ersakthivel

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General breefing on LCA tejas from history & how each indian should be proud on LCA since it is home grown child

They have even had a walk through in production facility where SP1 is getting ready , really good documentary

and she talks about HAL confirming that some Asian country without naming them have enquired on LCA Trainer version :thumb:

It would have been if NDTV or TIMES NOW or others had done such type of documentary but as you said they are behind whom sharukh khan dances & how many GF Dig Vijay singh has :facepalm:
Does it say anything on when the first serial production tejas aircraft is going to be inducted into IAF?
 

ersakthivel

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Many of the IAF gents who bemoaned their lack of executive and financial powers over tejas program , citing it as the reason for all the problems,

A lot of them for sure sat in the cockpit of Mig-21, on the pilot seat which is not suitable for low altitude ejection as explained by Prof Das,

Even pakistani Airforce recognized this problem and replaced the faulty ejection seats of Mig-19 with marin baker ejection seats, What did these IAF worthies do? Did they initiate any program to replace the Mig-21 ejection system with a much better system, which could have saved the life of so many young pilots?

When HF-24 marut was offered to them by HAl, they used it for decades, according to pilot reports it could out fly a Mig-21 in speeds over 400 knots, had two engines and was never shot down by a PAF fighter over the pakistani skies, and even engaged in a dog fight with F-104 and shot one down .

For more than a decade it was with IAf. What steps did IAf gents who are dumping on tejas took to get a better engine on marut?

Why was repeated offer from bristol siddley for a better version of orpheus engine shot down repeatedly by GOI? At that time why did IAF not intervene and asked the government to go for it?

Even if GOI refused the funds IAf could have set aside some funds and got the engine, since they claim deep engine knowledge, enough to shoot down K-10 JV proposed by GTRE- Snecma, they could have used their knowledge than to get a better engine for marut.

IAf's lack of initiative in this regard comnbined with HAl's preoccupation with license production on screw driver TOT made sure this fine aircraft with area ruled fuselage and gracefully designed highly swept wings die a premature death.

It was this lack of initiative and mysterious choice of jagurs as DPSA totally shutting the gate on further HF -24 marut development which made the scientific community to separate tejas project from HAl, which was a common knowledge at that time.

So why does matsy expects to be thrust with the responsibility of financial and executive powers over to IAF , a failed organization when it came to upgrade marut in blocks?



It was IAF's strong opposition which reduced the tejas program to this tech demo-PV-LSP program with half the funding and no dedicated production line orphan stage.

if the 4000 crores were allotted and a LSP model wanted by ADA was accepted , for concurrent production, then there is merit in having IAF on board from day one.

But after cutting Tejas project to size with their dogged opposition no one in DRDO or ADA wanted IAF to meddle in the tech demo stage , where priority is to prove the tech as asked by IAF-Mod combine for which IAF had bo technical capability.

If IAF was given charge at that time, it would be a moot question whether Td-1 would have flown in 2001 , in flat 7 years after funding for building them were received in 1994.


IAF asking for financial and executive power is even more bizzare in a R&D project. It is like asking your family barber to choose your doctor for open heart surgery.

IAF guys are having Mig-21 for ages, but they could not fit a half decent ejection seat that could have saved so many lives.

Even the PAF fitted their Mig-19 with martin baker ejection seat.


Same with marut. It was no DRDO project and was with IAF for ages. What did IAf do to get a new engine onboard, compared with navy's initiative on getting GE-414 on tejas mk2 , IAF slept at the wheel for decades and let marut go waste!!!!

If at all IAF rescued Marut there would have been no ADA, no DRDO in indian mil aviation sector, It would have been IAf-HAL combine doing the job as money would have flown into marut and subsequent program.

After sleeping at the wheels for a decade in the 60s and 70s, why dump on ADA?

Is it fair for matsy to keep on claiming that tejas mk1 is below Bison?

marut can outfly a Mig-21 in speeds above 400 knots, gave a sterling account in the war. It shot down one f-104, the famed jet fighter, and was never shot down by PAF jets, the four lost in enemy territory were all due to ground fire.

jaguar with its crucifix wings was no aerodynamic match for marut which had a highly swept wing with graceful lines and area ruled fuselage, highly praised by its pilots for the close combat handling capabilities and loved to the core.

But IAF or MOD or GOI never seriously pursued engine options despite repeated offers from bristol siddley to develop higher powered orpheus engine!!!!

It was this fiasco that prompted the scientific community to prize Tejas program off the HAL-IAF hand and go with a local engine from the start.

Who stopped IAf from improving Marut in batches, Had they done that there would have been no jag, no ADA , no tejas.

It was the singular failure by IAF and the lack of inspiration on HAL which always had a screw driver job to do with focus on top line which prompted the setting up of ADA at the behest of space scientists who were appalled at the lack of direction in this crucial field.

It is now fashinable for matsy &co to shed crocodile tears over tejas and longing for marut improvement in blocks!!!!, Point is who asked them to sleep at the wheel when the time was on their sides in the 60s and 70s?

And if wikileaks report was true , we could easily see why? One son in law of IAF airchief, both the sons of dynasty all fronted for different companies in DPSA, which comprised of many fighters in the fry.And in the end they selected Jaguar which was palmed off to IAF with false assurance(but it was not mentioned in the contract!!!) of setting right its useless nav attack(most important for a DPSA !!!).

Then BAE asked a massive fee for that, taken aback IAf looked for local talent to set right the problem. It was good the guys did that flat in 18 months.

SO to expect IAF to produce miracle out of thin air be cutting tejas delay is stupid.

SO while gents of Imported Air farts can vent their collective fury on tejas in kangaroo courts like Vayu strat post conference, their pronouncements does not count for sh!t in real world.

A case in point , still an old senile IAF gent harping that tejas is below Bison!!! In case he refers to top speed of mach 2, then even rafale is below Bison,Why did IAf short list 1.8 mach top speed rafale over 2 mach top speed TYPHOON? And by the same count is rafale also inferior to mig-21?

And their deeply felt MMRCA need is another joke of the century. NDA government wanted to avoid the single vendor situation on IAF request to buy 126 Mirage-2000s to avoid charges of corruption and malpractice in the deal and made it multi vendor.

These guys are cleverly not mentioning this fact , because if they mention it their case for rafale will be doomed as tejas mk2 will in every aspect go beyond mirage-2000, even tejas mk1 is at least equal to mirage-2000 as per test pilot Suneeth krishna's claim.

They just put a 30 ton class to keep Su series fighters out and asked Mig not to participate with their mig-35s. thats why we have different class fo fighters from f-16, gripen to typhoon all contesting.

They did not outline important tech feature and , the product being at the start of lifecycle development as the most important criteria,

In fact has that been done it would have been a straight fight between TYPHOON and RAFALE, and IAf could have sealed the tender with much cheaper 2009 financial bid.

not doing that makes every body suspicious about the motive of UPA-IAF combo in this deal.Which no new govt can discount given the impropriety in each and every single mega deals of UPA like 2G, coalgate , ISRO-davos, commonwealth game,

And sat their ass on financial bids till they were allowed to expire in 2009, And now as usual dumping on tejas program to save their butt for the comical circus called MMRCA

navy guys know this old IAF good for nothing game and taking potshots at them,

for which they are replying with even more lies like tejas is below Mig-21 bisons!!!!!

Even the SU-30 MKI is a political decision on behalf of civillian govts, not bought on any deep seated panting need as faked by IAF gents on MMRCA in the vayu strat post conference.

And the fact it turned out deadly shows that there is no reason for us to take the crocodile tears of IAf retired gents for tejas at their face value!!!!

In the same way if the civilian govt right now decides price(they now suspect a foul play on the lines of 2G deal as well!!!!) is too high for rafale and a su-30 MKI -tejas mk2 can do the 126 rafale jobs at half the cost. It will be a right decision also.

heavens wont fall on IAF and tejas su-30 MKI combo can easily do the job heralding the arrival of indian mil aviation industry which was killed off with marut's closure in the seventies.

that was the aim of tejas project and now it is sought to be sabotaged citing the holy cow of national security.
 
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Anoop Sajwan

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Concurrency is meant for very large programs like the F-35. And works only when very few numbers are ordered, like 1 or 2% of the actual order. By the time some 150 are ordered, they plan to get IOC. That's less than 1% of the total orders.

Here ADA is just getting desperate. They probably want IAF to induct 20 or 30% before the jet gets IOC. You really think IAF will buy that many before IOC? It's bound to fail. And any IOC date for Mk2 is bound to slip and any date ADA announces is guaranteed to be a lie. If this was 1995, IAF would have agreed, but now there is a huge question mark on the future of the program.

Any sane individual will reject concurrency for such a small program. Especially when the supplier is a proven liar.

First let them fly LCA, then let them get IOC, then we will talk. First flight itself is more than 3 years away, forget talking about IOC. Any date that ADA gives, multiply that by two. That's when it will happen.

150 is 10% of total not 1-2%. That is the difference between fighter program approach of IAF and air forces in the world. IAF put order way back after IOC, when IOC2 was nearly completed. But US military so far ordered 100 F35, while IOC is one year far. ANd many believed that it can be delayed little a bit. And that IOC wil be from marines only. They are using F35 even its fight envelop is restricted by authorities upto AoA of 20deg only. You can see the IAF,s intentions.
 

ersakthivel

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:confused:Print Release
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DRDO AWARDS for the year 2013 for outstanding contribution in various areas of technology will be given away by the Prime Minister, Shri Narendra Modi, in the august presence of Hon'ble Defence Minister Shri Arun Jaitley and a galaxy of dignitaries on 20th August 2014 in a brief ceremony to be held at Kothari Auditorium, DRDO Bhawan.
The DRDO awards in 10 categories are being given to honour individual Scientists/Teams of DRDO, partners of DRDO from other sectors for their outstanding contributions in furthering DRDO's efforts in achieving self-reliance.

DRDO Life Time Achievement Award 2013 is being conferred on Dr. Dipankar Banerjee formerly Director, DMRL and Chief Controller R&D of DRDO for his distinguished contributions to the field of Metallurgy, Materials science & Combat Aircraft Program.

Technology Leadership Award: In recognition of outstanding contributions and leadership qualities, the Technology Leadership Award for the year 2013 is being awarded to Shri S Anantha Narayanan, Distinguished Scientist & Director Naval Physical & Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL), Kochi towards development of underwater surveillance systems, new technologies in underwater transducers, onboard processors and deployment mechanisms and fostering industrial partnerships leading to proliferation of a large number of systems in the Indian Navy.

ACADEMY EXCELLENCE AWARDS are given to members from academia associated with DRDO for research in emerging areas. The two Academy Excellence Awards for the year 2013 are being conferred on Emeritus Prof. S Mohan, Indian Institute of Science, Bengaluru for his noteworthy contributions to several projects of DRDO. His innovative ideas and advice have helped DEBEL to successfully carry out technology demonstration of the concept of TDLAS Oxygen Sensor for Air Borne application, Ammonia Sensor, Micro needle Array for EEG and MEMS based pressure Sensor and Prof. V Kamakoti, Indian Institute of Technology Madras, Chennai for his outstanding contributions to the area of Computer Architecture, Reconfigurable System Design and Indigenous VLSI/EDA software, Secure Operating Systems, Indigenous IPs and to improve the performance of ANURAG developed ANUPAMA/ABACUS processors using higher level design abstraction.

Silicon Trophy for the Best Systems Laboratory of DRDO is being awarded to Defence Research & Development Laboratory (DRDL), Hyderabad for outstanding contributions towards development of tactical and underwater launched guided weapon systems.

TITANIUM TROPHY for the Best Science Laboratory of DRDO is being awarded to Defence Institute of Physiology & Allied Sciences (DIPAS), Delhi for outstanding contributions in improving performance and health of the soldiers deployed at high altitude and other operational environments.

DRDO awards for PATH BREAKING RESEARCH AND OUTSTANDING TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT for the year 2013 are being conferred upon:

· Dr. SC Sati,Director, Aerial Delivery Research & Development Establishment (ADRDE), Agra and his team for their outstanding contributions towards design, development, realisation and testing of P-16 Heavy Drop System comprising multi stage parachutes and platform.
· Dr. S Guruprasad, Scientist 'H', and Director, Research & Development Establishment (Engineers) (R&DE (E)), Pune and his team for their outstanding contributions towards development of a cost effective manufacturing technology for composites, Resin Film Infusion and materials for the same, leading to realisation of large size, light weight and multifunctional structural components for military applications.
· Shri RS Chandrasekhar, Scientist 'F', Research Centre Imarat (RCI), Hyderabad and his team have made outstanding contributions in developing innovative and robust Alignment methodologies for Inertial Navigation Systems for Air-to-Air tactical weapon and Ship-launched Strategic weapon.

DRDO AWARD FOR PERFORMANCE EXCELLENCE are being conferred on Shri PS Subramanyam, Distinguished Scientist & Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) Bengaluru and his team along with Dr. K Tamilmani, former Chief Executive, CEMILAC and his team towards accomplishing an unprecedented milestone in Defence Aviation through indigenous design, development and certification of a state-of-the-art fighter aircraft, Tejas for induction into services. Tejas has been granted Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) in Dec 2013. This rare feat of the team has catapulted India into the elite club of nations which possess the technological capabilities and infrastructure to build and roll out their own fighter aircraft with state-of-the-art technologies.

SPECIAL AWARD FOR STRATEGIC CONTRIBUTION 2013 is being conferred on:

· Smt. U Jeya Santhi, Scientist 'F' and her team for significant contributions towards successful design, development, erection and commissioning of Strategic Command and Control infrastructure comprising a secured, multi-layered, Strategic Communication Network and specialised Blast and EMP hardened structures.
· Shri K Ravi Sankar, Scientist 'F', Centre for Artificial Intelligence and Robotics (CAIR), Bengaluru and his team for outstanding contributions to the development of Security Solutions for Strategic Communication Networks (SCN) for securing sensitive data transmitted over PSTN links, high-speed point-to-point links which incorporate indigenous high grade encryption algorithms, automated and fast robust synchronization, user friendly end-to-end key management, innovative capture resiliency techniques with robust authentication mechanisms.
· Shri Rajeev Thaman, Scientist 'F', Scientific Analysis Group (SAG), Delhi and his team have made significant contributions in developing various indigenous information security SW Solutions for Cyber Defence, which have been deployed at various Defence Establishments, Strategic Programmes and other Intelligence Agencies providing high level of security assurance.
Defence Technology Absorption Award is given to DRDO's industrial partners for their support in transformation of technologies developed by DRDO into products/systems/processes for Armed forces. The award is being given to:-

· M/s Accord Software & Systems Ltd., Bengaluru, has immensely contributed towards indigenous design, development and production of advanced high dynamics GPS+GLONASS+GAGAN receivers with state-of-the-art technologies and features in multiple configurations to the specific requirements/ specifications of Indian Defence programmes in close coordination with DRDO laboratories.
· M/s Aerospace Engineers, Salem, Tamil Nadu, has displayed profound technical expertise in absorbing various technologies and has delivered high-precision and quality elastomeric products manufactured out of these technologies for use on various airborne systems developed by DRDO that include LCA, Lakshya, Nishant, Missiles, Life Saving Systems, aircrafts and helicopters.
· M/s Krishna Industries, Mumbai has displayed pioneering efforts towards indigenous production of "Bulb Bars" of various sections of DMR-249A grade steel, on industrial scale, in association with DRDO for construction of warships by devising ingenious roll design, rolling parameters and novel heat treatment technique. Their sustained efforts have culminated in producing high quality bulb bars for the first time in the country, thereby meeting the requirements of the Indian Navy in a timely and cost effective manner.
DEFENCE TECHNOLOGY SPIN-OFF AWARD 2013 is being awarded to Defence Food Research Laboratory (DFRL), Mysore for significant extension work in the rural sector for the benefit of tomato farmers & women entrepreneurs by means of commercialization of tomato-based value-added products.

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http://www.stratpost.com/video-vayu-stratpost-air-power-roundtable-v

Following is what was said by AIr marshal matheswaran in "vayu(purrrr gas)" round table,

Is the concept relevant anymore? We need to look at that. I think we've outlived the relevance of the concept. That is one issue. But having said that, in the context of Indian capability development – Indian aeronautics development, there is nothing more important than a program which is taken up and moved in full earnest. This choice of the program – you see you started off with the HF-24 and countries if you see them, you need to follow just like what the Chinese are following -the block approach – is what we should have done. We should have continued with HF-24 in different blocks. That's how you build the national capability.

We closed shop there and then we jumped to a four and half generation aspiration on the LCA – much has been achieved, which is very creditable, but it will take thirty years if we jump like that. And the time frames that have been projected have all been absolutely unrealistic. And this is where the government needs to be brought in – what are they doing, how do they analyze – or they just take their words for it?

Cost and time frames are absolutely unrealistic. And example: the Kaveri engine. 89 you get the CCS approval – project is approved for 450 crores saying that a 4th generation engine – no such engine existed anywhere in the world – and mind you we haven't made a single aero-engine that flies before that nor even today. No engine has been made – designed and made. And you want to jump to a 4th generation engine though original proposal was for a five-stage engine which people said 'Come on, have some sense. Look into it again.' So they made it six-stage – even that was not existing anywhere in the world.

And what do they say? We will do the complete development by 7 years – by the 7th year the series production will be ready and it will be inducted into the air force in 1996. Even for established majors like General Electric or Pratt and Whitney to start an engine from scratch design is a 20-year program. Okay, so here professionalism is in question. These are the reasons why we've got into this kind of a problem.

With respect to LCA, it's time to close it. Close it in the sense – what you have achieved is what you will get. And my reports are there already in that. The first choice of the design was wrong and that design can give you only this capability, which, I've said, is something akin to the Bison's capability.

So we need to close it here and move on to the next block approaches to address the problems that are there and develop different models. –
Vice Admiral (retd.) Shekhar Sinha says

When you start coming on a new venture – new platform, we should not just write off the technology that you have imbibed. And it must be pursued. And while it is – Mk II, Mk III is all on the cards – we should get ahead with the next design and whatever you have made, use this as a trial platform or a trainer aircraft or lead-in fighter (trainer). Because if we don't get this technology right then we will continue to import and will remain from 70 import and 30 (indigenous) – we have not made any aircraft, actually, ourselves. So our capability may exist but we don't have the capacity to build those numbers and its going to keep increasing with time.

The second issue is that it's a badly managed program. Nothing wrong with the technicalities, there's nothing wrong with the – whatever decisions have been taken.

But if you have a project head and not leave it only to the LCA project team of the DRDO or somebody else to drive, this is exactly what will happen. I would very strongly recommend that we – we have spent a lot of money, there have been a lot of discussions with Matheshwaran in the IDS Headquarters even earlier – that LCA should have been better managed, it would have been flying you – you would have already stepped on to Mk II. So our thinking is that we should not allow this technology to be written off and take on from here and get on with Mk II, Mk III and use these aircraft for other purposes – for lead in fighter training or whatever. –
Air marshal Barbora says,

I happened to meet the designer of the Sukhoi-30 MKI. Seminov. I was in Russia then as an air attach̩. And he actually said to me Рhe said 'Very good you all are doing the LCA program. We wish all success.' He's the chief designer of this unique MKI. He said ' But first before you know how to make an aircraft please come and sit with us for fifteen years and maybe you'll learn how to make an aircraft.

Now Ajai (Shukla) rang me up from Bangalore, in respect of the LCA production line. He said there's no production line for the LCA as yet. How are we forming the squadron?


Then what is this?
Four and half years back we took a decision about forming the first squadron. We pumped in our manpower there in Bangalore to produce the first squadron, based on, again, the very optimistic supply chain that the HAL would give us. Till date, like he said, serial production hasn't started. Now, enough is enough also, na.

Our air force problems started with the LCA prompted that this is going to replace your MiG-21s. Today the shit we are in – I'm sorry for the word – the Indian Air Force structure – force structure – is because of LCA.

And I can agree there – please let's not stop, block this program. Pick up the good points – there are very good things in the LCA. Managerial capability: Very poor. Every time we have gone to the government – when I was vice chief and the chiefs were there – Matsy (Air Marshal M Matheshwaran) was supposed to pack up his bags and go to Bangalore and take over. What happened?

I mentioned it to the defense minister the day before I was retiring, suggesting as to what coud be done in respect of HAL and whatever it is. Actually, he got angry at me. He says 'you don't have faith in HAL'. I said, you don't have to say it, I don't have faith.

Frankly, we must pick up the good and go ahead and try and develop more. But we can't do it alone. I'm sorry – we made an Ambassador car and we made rocket launchers going into space. We missed out on mid-level technology – discontinuous route. And to get into – that happened to China also, but China is very good at reverse engineering – they're doing it.

According to Tamil Mani the ADA DG, reverse engineering is much more difficult than original research based development!!!!
I dont know from where Barbora got the info that we can reverse engineer a complex project like tejas by copying every T,
If some one gives a BLISK with single crystal blades to barbora & co and asks them to deliver an exact copy, how long will it take?
Even after spending billions and decades chinese couldnot replicate the AL-31 SCB tech successfully and reliably on their WS-13 and still importing russian engines!!!!


Once again Air marshal matheswaran the great says,

As someone who's been involved closely with the program, and who's done two studies intimately, I'd like to put certain things at rest. One: the LCA and MMRCA cannot be compared. So don't flog that fallacy that under the indigenous program the LCA can now take over the MMRCA's requirements and fill in those gaps – its not possible.

That is the foremost reason for vayu conference!!!!!
The most important thing is, in the LCA program, we suffer from a national culture which I call – it flows from our caste culture system. Why? Because nowhere in the world, when designers are given certain tasks to design an aircraft and develop it, the interface between the user – user's ability to convince and make him understand what he wants and what are the operational requirements so that the designer can choose the right design intent, is completely and interactive process.


Here, the scientific adviser will tell the air chief technology demonstration is my job – you've given me the ASR, now lay off – let me finish my technology demonstration program, then you come in – we will see thereafter. There's the problem. Because it's too late to come in and make changes. That's one.


Second. What Admiral Arun Prakash said is absolutely correct. The F-22 program was – after the basic technology demonstration program the user takes over the entire program management. The US Air Force appointed a program manager with significant powers – financial as well as executive decision-making with respect to the program.

Because you must take even a decision – even if you have to foreclose the program if its not viable and you must have that wherewithal for it, so you have to be trained and you have to be fully in that process. This man took over the F-22 program as a Lieutenant Colonel – he remained the program manager when the F-22 was operationally inducted 20 years later and he was Lieutenant General when he retired. There's a problem in our service culture and service mindset. We don't want to put people on professional competencies as experts on a program for any length of time. Our P-staff or personnel staff in the other two services will cry hoarse and say 'no, this guy cannot be in Bangalore for 20 years or three years or five years. So we keep breaking the expertise and it's like the monkey climbing up and coming down two feet down so we are always at the perpetual start point. These are the fundamental factors that impinge on this.

More importantly, I think DRDO and the public sector spend more time on publicity events – on non-events. I said, stop all that. You know you have a pre-IOC, you have an IOC, you have a huge celebration – you actually keep announcing things – 'we are the fourth country to achieve this', 'we are the fifth country to achieve this' or 'we are the third country to achieve this' – where is the final product? Where is it going to see the operational utility? How about questioning that? Where are the timelines? Where is the cost accountability?

This is what we need to question. We stop these public events, we stop these announcements for the rest of the world and if you think that we're fooling the rest of the world – we're fooling ourselves.

The rest of the world, who are experts in technologies in the aerospace domain – they know exactly what's wrong with your aircraft. They know exactly where your technologies remain.

So the person who said there's always been a conflict between HAL, DRDO and air force – there's never been a change of stance of air force. Constantly, there's an accusation that goalposts have been shifted by air force. The ASR was approved with everybody involved in 1985 and there were two concessions given in 1989 – no other change has ever been made. It is their inability to conform the ASR, for a variety of reasons. –
Well air marshal Matheswaran , matsy was giving his "expert advice in Vayu fart fest " against scuh public jamboorees !!!!

Well Modi govt is not listening and treating tejas team like door mate as matsy would have liked very much for not allowing him to take control of tejas :frusty: .

Well matsy's and the resident aerodynamic expert of Vayu, Mr. Pushpinder Singh's advice seems to be falling on deaf ears!!!!:scared2:

First the Modi govt gave these guys and now they are giving them awards!!!!!:scared1:

What a breach of national security????

Why should they be awarded for destroying IAF's force structure?:mad:

Why should they be awarded for running a failed program?:toilet:

Why should they be awarded for producing "a fighter inferior to Mig-21 Bison", according to "intimate" reports received by matheswaran himself, who claims to have done two deep studies on Tejas program and given an "expert opinion" to Indian govt to wind up this program, pick up the good things and leave.:confused:
 
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ersakthivel

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Of course. My views reflect the views of the establishment, as demonstrated from the Stratpost video and the numerous articles given by Air Marshals, the most recent being the rebuttal by Air Marshal Barbora to Bharat Karnad's article



DRDO/HAL don't want to give up their power.
DRDO AWARD FOR PERFORMANCE EXCELLENCE are being conferred on Shri PS Subramanyam, Distinguished Scientist & Director, Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) Bengaluru and his team along with Dr. K Tamilmani, former Chief Executive, CEMILAC and his team towards accomplishing an unprecedented milestone in Defence Aviation through indigenous design, development and certification of a state-of-the-art fighter aircraft, Tejas for induction into services.

Tejas has been granted Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) in Dec 2013. This rare feat of the team has catapulted India into the elite club of nations which possess the technological capabilities and infrastructure to build and roll out their own fighter aircraft with state-of-the-art technologies.

SPECIAL AWARD FOR STRATEGIC CONTRIBUTION 2013 is being conferred on:
· M/s Aerospace Engineers, Salem, Tamil Nadu, has displayed profound technical expertise in absorbing various technologies and has delivered high-precision and quality elastomeric products manufactured out of these technologies for use on various airborne systems developed by DRDO that include LCA, Lakshya, Nishant, Missiles, Life Saving Systems, aircrafts and helicopters.

This is what matsy says,

This is what we need to question. We stop these public events, we stop these announcements for the rest of the world and if you think that we're fooling the rest of the world – we're fooling ourselves.

The rest of the world, who are experts in technologies in the aerospace domain – they know exactly what's wrong with your aircraft. They know exactly where your technologies remain.

So the person who said there's always been a conflict between HAL, DRDO and air force – there's never been a change of stance of air force. Constantly, there's an accusation that goalposts have been shifted by air force. The ASR was approved with everybody involved in 1985 and there were two concessions given in 1989 – no other change has ever been made. It is their inability to conform the ASR, for a variety of reasons. –
[/QUOTE]
Well air marshal Matheswaran , matsy was giving his "expert advice in Vayu fart fest " against scuh public jamboorees !!!!

Well Modi govt is not listening and treating tejas team like door mate as matsy would have liked very much for not allowing him to take control of tejas :frusty: .

Well matsy's and the resident aerodynamic expert of Vayu, Mr. Pushpinder Singh's advice seems to be falling on deaf ears!!!!:scared2:

First the Modi govt gave these guys and now they are giving them awards!!!!!:scared1:

What a breach of national security????

Why should they be awarded for destroying IAF's force structure?:mad:

Why should they be awarded for running a failed program?:toilet:

Why should they be awarded for producing "a fighter inferior to Mig-21 Bison", according to "intimate" reports received by matheswaran himself, who claims to have done two deep studies on Tejas program and given an "expert opinion" to Indian govt to wind up this program, pick up the good things and leave.:confused:


But this is what GOI does,

Any comments from our resident self declared IAF fanboy?
 
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cobra commando

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August 19, 2014: In yet another slippage, the LCA Tejas is all set to miss its December 2014 deadline for final operational clearance (FOC), and will instead achieve the milestone closer to June next year according to top sources on the programme. Delivery of series production aircraft, to have commenced by December last year, has been pushed from July 2014 to at least October 2014, with HAL struggling to compress delivery schedules. An exasperated Indian Air Force has sent out a strong message that the LCA Mk.1 will see operational service as nothing more than an lead-in trainer, and that ADA needs to focus on delivering the LCA Mk.2, powered by the GE-F414 turbofan engine. Top sources say that test points running into over 1,200 for single engine performance are yet to be notched up by the team at the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) and mandatory for the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification to accord final documents. A handover deadline of June 2015 is likely be set for final delivery of the Mk.1 platform and first lot of squadron-ready aircraft. According to a recent HAL statement, the business partners who work on the Light Combat Aircraft have resolved to ensure the indigenous content of components used in the aircraft touches 80 percent in next three years. DRDO chief Dr. AvinashChander said, "It is possible to achieve such a goal since 165 out of 344 Line Replacement Units (LRUs) are already made in India. The LCA dream has been achieved in-spite of denial of technology. It is clear that we have capability and the government will do everything possible to strengthen the knowledge base. Even funding can be provided and national facilities (such as testing) may be shared with private players to bring down costs to create a vibrant aerospace eco-system."
SP�s Exculsive - SP's Aviation
:hair:
 

Twinblade

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An exasperated Indian Air Force has sent out a strong message that the LCA Mk.1 will see operational service as nothing more than an lead-in trainer, and that ADA needs to focus on delivering the LCA Mk.2, powered by the GE-F414 turbofan engine.
SP�s Exculsive - SP's Aviation
:hair:
It may sound bad but it is a great news in disguise. At least HAL won't be killing any test pilots or trainee pilots by developing a new lead in trainer from scratch :thumb:

Meanwhile, someone hasn't updated these fellows:-
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/karnataka/a-few-small-production-pushes-for-lca-light-combat-aircraft/article6324365.ece

Defence scientists maintain that the FOC should be possible before 2015 as planned.
 
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Zebra

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....An exasperated Indian Air Force has sent out a strong message that the LCA Mk.1 will see operational service as nothing more than an lead-in trainer...
[URL="An exasperated Indian Air Force has sent out a strong message that the LCA Mk.1 will see operational service as nothing more than an lead-in trainer, and that

SP�s Exculsive - SP's Aviation
No problem, IA can get those LCA mk1 now. They may use as their CAS aircrafts.

Top sources say that test points running into over 1,200 for single engine performance are yet to be notched up by the team at the National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) and mandatory for the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification to accord final documents.

SP�s Exculsive - SP's Aviation
A question please.... all birds which IAF operate as of today are they all notched up by NFTC and all of them has their final documents issued by Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification...?
 

Twinblade

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A question please.... all birds which IAF operate as of today are they all notched up by NFTC and all of them has their final documents issued by Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification...?
AFAIK, yes. Even upgrades have to be okayed by cemilac. I have seen news regarding cemilac certification for EW suites of various IAF birds upgraded by DARE.
 

Pulkit

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It may sound bad but it is a great news in disguise. At least HAL won't be killing any test pilots or trainee pilots by developing a new lead in trainer from scratch :thumb:

Meanwhile, someone hasn't updated these fellows:-
A few small production pushes for LCA - The Hindu

the way Modi Ji is going the DRDO HAL and ADA are now in a fix....they had declared deliveries by this year end + FOC also ...
With Modi Ji taking a strong position if they do not deliver in time hez gonna be very furious....

Involvement of a PM till this extent in Defense is gonna pressurize them to deliver....

HAL has already lost its monopoly.... ADA DRDO will soon also loose there position this they do not improve....
 

Dhairya Yadav

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Everybody in India is crying self reliance in military, frankly i dont see wasting 30 yrs on a project as self reliance. We arent mature to produce such a sophisticated fighter. We should learn from china, who still keeps outdated fighters in production. By this,atleast we get some experience. Take MiG 21 for eg, we should have made even newer versions of it, made more advanced deriatives of its engine and extend its service life. Russia is always there for any help. Personally, i believe that if we consulted Russians in development of LCA, it would have been completed years ago.
 

ersakthivel

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It may sound bad but it is a great news in disguise. At least HAL won't be killing any test pilots or trainee pilots by developing a new lead in trainer from scratch :thumb:

Meanwhile, someone hasn't updated these fellows:-
A few small production pushes for LCA - The Hindu
The Hindu does not report paid news planted by import lobby from IAF.

Most DDM folks have closed AMCA project a hundred times, But official DRDO press release says otherwise,

recent paid news effort at painting DRDO for sending fully functional pragathi missile system to Seoul as usual turned out to be false,

And the efforts of TOIlet pundit by enlightening us all about the great fact that tejas can not fly without outside telemetry support fizzled out at IOC-2,

And for eons these paid news guys were tom tomming that due to poor intake design Tejas can not reach beyond 16 deg AOA like gospel, only to be slapped in the face with IOC-2 documentation,

Also people lying that Tejas has a combat range of less than 500 Km had their bluff called when PIB release clearly said that tejas mk1 without even validating central line supersonic fuel tank was capable of 500 Km combat radius, clearly bringing out the fact tejas has a combat range of over 1000 Km without the central fuel tank validation.

Still may IAF gents are lying that tejas is below bison leve, even in the recently concluded fartfest VAYU stratpost, Group captain Suneeth Krishna , the chief test pilot of tejas mk1 has called their bluff long ago by simply stating that tejas mk1 is at least equal to 45 million dollar per piece updated Mirage-2000.

SO tons of lies by import lobbes wont make a difference,

things to know are,

modi govt gave extension to both ADA chief, and DRDO Dg tamil mani,

And jaitley increased DRDO budget to 7 percent of defence budget a long standing demand ignored by UPA joint, by raising last years DRDO budget by 60 percent,

And just recently ADA chief and ADA Dg Tamil mani have been selected for life time achievement awards.
 

ersakthivel

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the way Modi Ji is going the DRDO HAL and ADA are now in a fix....they had declared deliveries by this year end + FOC also ...
With Modi Ji taking a strong position if they do not deliver in time hez gonna be very furious....

Involvement of a PM till this extent in Defense is gonna pressurize them to deliver....

HAL has already lost its monopoly.... ADA DRDO will soon also loose there position this they do not improve....
Every one in BJP knows the reason behind the rafale deal and IAF retired and retiring folks panting for rafale,
 

Pulkit

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Every one in BJP knows the reason behind the rafale deal and IAF retired and retiring folks panting for rafale,
Confused .... There are two reasons ...
Arjun Brigade view V/S others ....

Which one is own to them?
 

p2prada

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150 is 10% of total not 1-2%.
5% more accurately.

IAF put order way back after IOC, when IOC2 was nearly completed.
IAF ordered the first squadron in 2004 and the second in 2007.

But US military so far ordered 100 F35, while IOC is one year far.
They are the first to start something that hasn't tried before in such a large program. Their safety net is the size of their program anyway.

And that IOC wil be from marines only. They are using F35 even its fight envelop is restricted by authorities upto AoA of 20deg only. You can see the IAF,s intentions.
You don't get it. So no point explaining it.

Anyway, IOC certification is given after the first squadron is inducted. Technically, IAF should give LCA IOC only after the first squadron is inducted. And IOC standards in the US are far stricter.

F-35 is restricted to 20 deg AoA in regular flight but has already been tested to 60 deg. LCA is being tested for 22+ deg only today. You can see US standards.
 
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