ADA Tejas (LCA) News and Discussions

Which role suits LCA 'Tejas' more than others from following options?

  • Interceptor-Defend Skies from Intruders.

    Votes: 342 51.3%
  • Airsuperiority-Complete control of the skies.

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • Strike-Attack deep into enemy zone.

    Votes: 24 3.6%
  • Multirole-Perform multiple roles.

    Votes: 284 42.6%

  • Total voters
    667
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nitesh

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Maybe you ought to read this I had posted before your post -

Unless they decide to to with the GE engines in the first few squadrons and then goto the Kaveri engine. And, buying engines from GE also seems a tad difficult now considering that the US government has served some sort of notice to GE about the engines for the Shivalik Frigate...

So, don't tell me that you have 20 engines ready for the plane?? Do you?? Till then its only wishful thinking. We might at best have a handful of engines ready. So, no use talking about the contract until GE has released the 20 engines...

And, integrating a radar, even an off-the-shelf radar isn't going to be an easy task. It might take an year atleast. I don't claim to know everything, but I dont type hurtful and arrogant comments either...

Mark my words, its not happening by 2010. 2012 is my guess.
So according to you you are correct and the Air chief is wrong rightLink, I requested you to go through the thread go through it.

What ever is your thinking is your speculation there is no logic behind it. You are free to have your thinking but if you type it you have to substantiate with proper links to the claims otherwise it does not matters in the discussions
 

EnlightenedMonk

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So according to you you are correct and the Air chief is wrong rightLink, I requested you to go through the thread go through it.

What ever is your thinking is your speculation there is no logic behind it. You are free to have your thinking but if you type it you have to substantiate with proper links to the claims otherwise it does not matters in the discussions
To quote from that report -

operational by late 2010 or early 2011
I think the Chief is talking about IOC (Initial Operational Clearance). That does not necessarily mean that they'll get 20-40 odd planes. For all you know, they might even get only a handful. That'll at best be a window-dressing exercise to show that the plane is being inducted.

The real deal is after that. They will test the planes out even more and then order the squadrons they wanted with possible slight change in specs if required at that stage.

So, I think we are confusing here between IOC and credible squadron strengths.
 

nitesh

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To quote from that report -



I think the Chief is talking about IOC (Initial Operational Clearance). That does not necessarily mean that they'll get 20-40 odd planes. For all you know, they might even get only a handful. That'll at best be a window-dressing exercise to show that the plane is being inducted.

The real deal is after that. They will test the planes out even more and then order the squadrons they wanted with possible slight change in specs if required at that stage.

So, I think we are confusing here between IOC and credible squadron strengths.
You don't read what I write, don't you ok for the last time "Go through the thread"


And then comment

PS: Spoon feeding: Go through post 9 to 15.
 

EnlightenedMonk

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You don't read what I write, don't you ok for the last time "Go through the thread"


And then comment

PS: Spoon feeding: Go through post 9 to 15.
Nice report. But I still can't get myself to trust that timeline. This particular project has been plagued by multiple delays repeatedly and I refuse to believe that it will be any different this time.

I still stick to my original timeline that I quoted of 2012.

Maybe you would like to mark this thread. I'm willing to stick to my guns on this one. I believe the timeline they've quoted is extremely optimistic and during integration a lot of delays come into the picture.
 

EnlightenedMonk

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You don't read what I write, don't you ok for the last time "Go through the thread"


And then comment

PS: Spoon feeding: Go through post 9 to 15.
Anyways, sorry for the trouble. I never went through the initial posts in the thread. It was my mistake.
 

nitesh

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Nice report. But I still can't get myself to trust that timeline. This particular project has been plagued by multiple delays repeatedly and I refuse to believe that it will be any different this time.

I still stick to my original timeline that I quoted of 2012.

Maybe you would like to mark this thread. I'm willing to stick to my guns on this one. I believe the timeline they've quoted is extremely optimistic and during integration a lot of delays come into the picture.
Gokul, I am not the person who has the insight details of the project, so I stick to the information which is available in the public domain and I believe with that. So if you have some thing different view then what is the information available presented then you have to substantiate it with the information that is available to you. Other wise if you keep saying that you will not provide any info and keep repeating the same lines and say that you will stick with it. That's not a good sign.
 

EnlightenedMonk

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Gokul, I am not the person who has the insight details of the project, so I stick to the information which is available in the public domain and I believe with that. So if you have some thing different view then what is the information available presented then you have to substantiate it with the information that is available to you. Other wise if you keep saying that you will not provide any info and keep repeating the same lines and say that you will stick with it. That's not a good sign.
Look, sticking with information in the public domain is not the problem. I do it most of the time. But, if you have a look at the information in the public domain in earlier instances of this case, especially when you consider some very eminent people had earlier said that this project would see the light of day in 2003 - 2005 and then this having gotten into trouble.

Just look at the other recent procurement timelines for our defence forces and after looking at that do you seriously think that they could pull this off in just about 2 years given that there are serious questionmarks (according to me) now on the GE engine and we might have to take the Eurojet engine now. I think an RFP is still out between the two engines.

Now, remember that the new radar is an AESA type and we have no experience with AESA radars in the past. Don't you think this could be a potential banana-skin which could delay the project?? If by any hand of god, they manage to integrate the radar quickly, don't you think that more field trials of weapons firing with the new radar will be required to test its accuracy, compatibility with existing weapons etc ?

I know that the traditional media is flooded with news about the LCA being on time and being a part of the airforce in 2010. But, I only wish to throw caution to the wind in this case.

If the LCA does become operational in 2010, there'd be nobody happier than me. But, given the track record and the facts about the radar and engines, two of the most critical components, I only suspect this claim. Remember, we have just about an year to go till 2010.
 

nitesh

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Look, sticking with information in the public domain is not the problem. I do it most of the time. But, if you have a look at the information in the public domain in earlier instances of this case, especially when you consider some very eminent people had earlier said that this project would see the light of day in 2003 - 2005 and then this having gotten into trouble.

Just look at the other recent procurement timelines for our defence forces and after looking at that do you seriously think that they could pull this off in just about 2 years given that there are serious questionmarks (according to me) now on the GE engine and we might have to take the Eurojet engine now. I think an RFP is still out between the two engines.

Now, remember that the new radar is an AESA type and we have no experience with AESA radars in the past. Don't you think this could be a potential banana-skin which could delay the project?? If by any hand of god, they manage to integrate the radar quickly, don't you think that more field trials of weapons firing with the new radar will be required to test its accuracy, compatibility with existing weapons etc ?

I know that the traditional media is flooded with news about the LCA being on time and being a part of the airforce in 2010. But, I only wish to throw caution to the wind in this case.

If the LCA does become operational in 2010, there'd be nobody happier than me. But, given the track record and the facts about the radar and engines, two of the most critical components, I only suspect this claim. Remember, we have just about an year to go till 2010.
Can you go through the thread once!
 

nitesh

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Yes, I went through the ENTIRE thread as you told me. What about it ???
You have not gone through it where exactly it mentions that LCA is carrying an AESA radar?
 

EnlightenedMonk

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You have not gone through it where exactly it mentions that LCA is carrying an AESA radar?
Okay. I'm sorry... Which one is it carrying right now? Is it the Israeli one which we've ordered?
 

nitesh

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Okay. I'm sorry... Which one is it carrying right now? Is it the Israeli one which we've ordered?
The LSP 3 will carry the radar, it is MMR with some Israel's input, for Mark II the Elta 2052 is under consideration.
 

LETHALFORCE

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Indigenous LCA engine ready for maiden trial

http://deccanherald.com/Content/Mar92009/national20090308122857.asp

Indigenous LCA engine ready for maiden trial
DH News Service, New Delhi:
After two decades of copious criticism from every quarter, the indigenous Kaveri engine is ready for its maiden flight trial in 2010.


“We have completed all ground testing for the full engine and individual components. The first flight (in a light combat aircraft) is expected in early 2010,” T Mohana Rao, director of the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE), Bangalore, which is developing the engine, told Deccan Herald.

Way back in 1986, the Defence Ministry wanted to develop an indigenous gas turbine engine for the indigenous fighter, Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), which just got off from the drawing board.

The decision led to the Kaveri programme, which was sanctioned in 1989 with an initial funding support of Rs 382.81 crore.

Clueless scientists

But over the years, Kaveri exemplified everything that is wrong with Indian defence research.

There was serious time and cost overrun and the programme was unable to meet many of its stated objectives. Many government and Parliamentary committees blamed the GTRE and the DRDO for India’s failure to have an indigenous engine for the fighter planes in time despite promises.

On the eve of the flight trial, Rao said when they were assigned the critical task they had no clue about the difficulties and were literally groping in the dark.

“We were thoroughly mistaken about the time. No one guided us. We were in dark along with our countrymen,” the GTRE chief admitted.

Rao confessed that there were flaws in the planning process when the project was conceived.

“We were over-optimistic that in six to eight years time, we will be able to make a gas turbine engine from scratch. But it was a myth,” he said.

Almost for the first seventeen years, GTRE scientists had to work in isolation as there was hardly any outside consultation with other engine manufacturers. “We just had some hunch. Consultation started since the last three years,” he said.

There was no test facility in India because of which the engine had to be sent abroad every time for test, further increasing the development time. The centre has so far sanctioned Rs 2080 crore for Kaveri. This, according to Rao, is one-fifth of what other nations have spent on developing similar gas turbine engines.

When the Kaveri programme was sanctioned in 1989, technical specifications were drawn out on the basis of a theoretical concept of the LCA. With the evolution of the LCA design, changes in the engine specifications were necessitated. Till date, GTRE made eight full engines and four core engines which do not have the low-pressure components and some other machinery.

Three cores and one full engine underwent testing in simulated conditions. In the next couple of months, full altitude testing in simulated conditions would be carried out to ensure that the engine can fire between 0-8 km altitudes.

This will be followed by the flight trial in another few months.
 

screwterrorists

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Forgive my lack of knowledge but is this the first time it will be tested in actual flight?

Also, is this version a new and improved version that will/might provide the required thrust for LCA?
If it is not an improved version, why even bother an actual test flight? Why not spear head work on something that will actually be useful?

Thanks.

ST
 

nitesh

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Forgive my lack of knowledge but is this the first time it will be tested in actual flight?

Also, is this version a new and improved version that will/might provide the required thrust for LCA?
If it is not an improved version, why even bother an actual test flight? Why not spear head work on something that will actually be useful?

Thanks.

ST
No engines are actually tested in testing facility and a testbed before getting put in to the actual platform. The model will k9/k10 which is meeting the actual goal i.e. approx 85KN of afterburner thrust. The LCA mark II will be having a new engine GE414/ EJ and kaveri will work in parallel with/without snecma JV to produce an engine of required thrust. The current kaveri if found satisfactory can be used in trainer versions.
 

nitesh

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US export curbs driving away business

Recently, P S Subramanyam, director of the Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), which has developed and light-tested India's light combat aircraft Tejas, made the point that the 1998 US sanctions was the best thing that could have happened to India's scientific efforts, as it spurred Indian scientists and engineers to develop these technologies and systems by themselves.

''When officials from BAE Systems, the third largest defence manufacturer in the world and part of the Eurojet consortium that makes the Typhoon fighter, came to see Tejas, they were amazed. For it has the latest configuration and it is completely indigenous,'' said Subramanyam.
 

EnlightenedMonk

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Found some informative videos about the LCA from youtube and so, am posting them here for everybody to see....
 
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